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How would you change Bond?

Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
edited July 2011 in General Discussion Posts: 41,011
I'm not sure if this topic has been created recently - my apologies, if it has - but are there any ways you would enjoy a change in Bond's outfits, personality, attributes, etc.? Would you enjoy seeing him smoke again? I'm aware it's something they changed with the times, and it does make sense that it is a lot easier for him to run around and do what he does without smoking all the time. Would you like seeing him laugh more? What about him living in a house, waking up and making breakfast like we get to read about in some of the novels? I know some of these things are mundane, but I'm curious as to what everyone else would like to see, if anything. If I could choose, I wouldn't mind seeing him smoke on occasion. How about you?
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Comments

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    You make some good points, but I disagree with the smoking. Craig is obviously the most physical of all the Bonds yet, evidenced by the athletic sequences like fights and chases. Lets think what's next for Bond. In Bond 23, I too would like to see him in his home. Throughout Craig's Bond films we have been in MI6, in M's house, but still not Bond's! In CR we got some deep looks into Bond's soul, and found out how he ticked. In QoS I felt the character was in no way analyzed. There were small pieces were Vesper was mentioned, but Bond came off dry, like she was nothing to him though he was resigning his service for her. It was like Forster thought that enough was gotten out of Bond in CR. So for Bond 23 I want a Bond more honest with himself about his emotions (Vesper's memory) and I want him to be affected by his past, even have a few hints to his work before MI6. A more human Bond. Show us his home. Show him just driving the Aston for sport, without him getting hammered with gunfire. And oh so importantly, grow the relationship between M and Bond even further as both continue to trust each other more and more. That's my piece.

    *I step off the soapbox*
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    I like those ideas. Honestly, I would enjoy seeing Bond drive the Aston out to a club or restaurant for a night, meeting a girl, and hooking up with her -- something totally unrelated to the mission he's given. Just like Brosnan and his professor in TND or his evaluation therapist in GE.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I hope more people respond to this. Good discussion choice.
  • SJK91SJK91
    Posts: 1,310
    So for Bond 23 I want a Bond more honest with himself about his emotions (Vesper's memory)
    I don't want anymore of this Vesper stuff to be honest. You can have a Bond with emotions and such, but this Vesper thing has truly run its course I believe. Give the audience something else rather than just milk this idea of Bond whining over Vesper; maybe a sly mention of her but nothing more than that.
    Show him just driving the Aston for sport
    Now that I do find very interesting!


  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Bond doesn't have to whine over Vesper, I just found how QoS handled the situation was poor. In CR the two have instant chemistry, and though Vesper is in with Quantum and knows she has to eventually turn on Bond, she falls in love and goes to her death, giving him White's location on her phone. Bond was ready to resign(he turned his resignation in to M) and make an "honest" living with Vesper, away from all the deceit and danger that his job entails for fear of losing his soul. Vesper strikes a deal to get the money to Quantum while keeping Bond alive. The amount of care the pair had for each other was heavy, and in QoS none of that is explored. Bond is informed about her boyfriend whose kidnapping drove Vesper to work for Quantum, but shrugs it off like the time he spent with her was nothing. I expected Bond to be tore up inside, and It would have been nice if Bond's damaged heart imploded during a mission and caused him a few screw ups. The ending of QoS was one of the only actual thought provoking scenes of the film, where Bond has confronted Vesper's boyfriend who is busy shaming another girl with jewelry and fake promises. That is what I want explored in Bond 23. What did the two talk about, and did Bond let his feelings out. That's all I'm saying. No Bond in the fetal position sucking on his thumb over Vesper. Just a Bond who recognizes what she meant to him and that she wasn't just part of the mission.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Eh? I thought QoS did most of all of what you wanted to see. It was just executed in a very subtle way. Watch QoS again, Bond is a man enraged and in pain and as a result loses himself in his work, trying to focus on getting his job done. His feelings for Vesper is one that of anger at himself for loving her as much as he did. Notice, when he delivers White to the safe house and is talking to M about Yusef, Bond acts as though he's not bothered but he is, which is why he steals the photo of Vesper and Yusef and is later then seen, looking at the picture mourning her loss while drunk.
    By the end of the film, Bond congratulates M on being right about Vesper but one gets the feeling that Bond already knew this a long time ago, he was just too afraid to admit it to himself and I suppose wanted some kind of justice brought to those directly involved before conceding.

    QoS may not be brilliant and it may indeed be inferior to CR but I do think one of the things they got right was Bond's emotional disposition to the whole Vesper affair. Could it have been executed in a better way? Maybe, it's possible but it was indeed handled and handled rather well imho.
  • ffolkesffolkes
    Posts: 4
    I would enjoy seeing Bond drive the Aston out to a club or restaurant for a night, meeting a girl, and hooking up with her like Brosnan and his professor in TND or his evaluation therapist in GE.
    I vote for ! :)
  • SJK91SJK91
    edited July 2011 Posts: 1,310
    Bond doesn't have to whine over Vesper, I just found how QoS handled the situation was poor. In CR the two have instant chemistry, and though Vesper is in with Quantum and knows she has to eventually turn on Bond, she falls in love and goes to her death, giving him White's location on her phone. Bond was ready to resign(he turned his resignation in to M) and make an "honest" living with Vesper, away from all the deceit and danger that his job entails for fear of losing his soul. Vesper strikes a deal to get the money to Quantum while keeping Bond alive. The amount of care the pair had for each other was heavy, and in QoS none of that is explored. Bond is informed about her boyfriend whose kidnapping drove Vesper to work for Quantum, but shrugs it off like the time he spent with her was nothing. I expected Bond to be tore up inside, and It would have been nice if Bond's damaged heart imploded during a mission and caused him a few screw ups. The ending of QoS was one of the only actual thought provoking scenes of the film, where Bond has confronted Vesper's boyfriend who is busy shaming another girl with jewelry and fake promises. That is what I want explored in Bond 23. What did the two talk about, and did Bond let his feelings out. That's all I'm saying. No Bond in the fetal position sucking on his thumb over Vesper. Just a Bond who recognizes what she meant to him and that she wasn't just part of the mission.
    Yeah, I know what you are saying for sure, but I then think they have missed their chance. I half agree with you that Quantum of Solace didn't quite do the whole Vesper thing justice but I don't think I would want a further exploration. I think two films with the Vesper subplot are enough and it is time to go in a different direction. On the other side, that scene between a clearly inebriated Bond and Mathis in QOS did give Bond a very human quality that I do not think we've seen before. Is that kind of what you want? More scenes like that?

    Also, you mention shedding light on what exactly Bond and Vesper's boyfriend talked about during that final scene of QOS; I think that scene should remain a mystery. Something about the way it is done sits fine with me, and the whole 'what did he say' element is part of that scene's impact. (I personally thought the scene was well done.)

    I thought the Vesper character was great in Casino Royale and I do like Quantum of Solace (though, as many people have stated, CR was clearly better), but after Quantum of Solace's direct continuation thing, I would truly like to see a stand alone Bond adventure.

    Call me old fashioned! :-D
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    @0Brady, thank you!

    @SJK, I enjoyed that airplane scene in QoS. Just knowing Bond downed all of those Vesper's made him very human - not that he drank, just that he was different. Now, I'm just hoping that if Bond 23 is a stand-alone Bond adventure, it spices up a little bit. I'd really like to see how Craig works with Q (if present) and Moneypenny and maybe, FOR ONCE, he gets to take down the villain himself.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Creasy, you make a very true point, one that I am surprised I never thought about. Sure in CR and QoS Bond took out Mollaka, Dimitrios. Carlos, Obanno, Mitchell, Slate, and the Chief of Police/Mathis's contact but never kills the main villain. Even Camille gets to kill Medrano(as she should have though) and Le Chiffre is killed to keep Bond alive to get the money/password later on, and it is nodded to that Greene is killed for his mistakes. I too want Craig's Bond to finally get to axe the main baddy. Good catch.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @SJK91, you have a very good analysis of QoS and I too agree with the points you make. I LOOOOVE CR and expected a knockout with QoS and sometimes find reasons to take out my anger on it, underestimating the power of the Bond/Yusef scene. The scene is agreeably much more powerful when you have no idea of the conversation and I love how Bond departs confirming his trust and service with M, dropping Vesper's necklace in the snow. What do you think of Camille in the film? I loved her, and respect her as one of the most intelligent Bond girls in the series. She is able to get in close to Medrano through Greene and when Bond comes in the way of that to get at Medrano you feel for her. She is very admirable and I love that her and Bond only share a "I respect you and appreciate all you've done" kiss, but they never had sex. I thought that was great and I also loved that Camille left with her slain family revenged for, and Bond is left with much to redeem. Both will still have demons inside them even if they kill all the evil that caused them such suffering. Barbara Broccoli has said it has been talked about to bring Camille back in the future. Bond 23 seems to be going down a stand-alone film road, which is great. It will give Craig a much needed break and just have more fun with a fresh plot and a playful relationship with Mendes. Can't wait for the behind the scenes on Bond 23. So if Quantum is picked up for Bond 24, and Craig decides to leave(hopefully not) then the two should pair up again and put the nails in Quantum's coffin, and finish the organization with Craig's departure. It seems fitting.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    @0Brady, why thank you. I can forgive it in CR, it just made the story that much more interesting, and the barge scene wouldn't have been as dramatic if White came in, untied Bond, and let he and Vesper go. QoS only bugged me because Bond goes through all that - though he does get his revenge on the Chief of Police for having Mathis killed - and then gives Greene the chance to escape. With employees like that, Greene's death was nearly inevitable, but still. It's why I hope Bardem is the Bond 23 villain, because he will most certainly be able to hold his own in a fight. I just hope Craig has the willpower to take down his nemesis this time.
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    I like your ideas, more snobbery and sexuality (enough of passion, he had Vesper and Tracy, great stories that can't be matched). I also aprove Bond smoking (Fleming's Bond smokes and all the five previous ones in movies have smoked at least once).
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Thank you. I don't know if it's because I'm a smoker or what, but I always enjoy seeing actors smoke in films. Blood Diamond, Children of Men, always entertaining. Why not have Craig pull a Brosnan and at least be in a situation where he indulges in a cigar or something?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Bond should definatly smoke again. How about eating a fancy dinner with the villain ? Plenty of meals from the novels that would be mouth-wattering to see on the big screen.

    I would also love to see Bond to routine work at MI6... Listening to radio comms, do some paperwork, class his files... And please show his appartment and the May character !! I am pretty sure that done right, such scenes wouldn't be boring. Just have the audacity to do these scenes !!
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    That idea of showing the appartment would be great!
    And I'm also a smoker, but I don't think I'm biased by it because smoking identifies Bond as well as drinking martinis and eating caviar. Also it appears to me that people overstimate the smoking rate of Bond (I believe he have only smoked in 10 of 22 movies). Of course, they don't know of his 60 to 70 Morland Specials a day of the books.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,723
    I do not smoke, but I really want Bond to smoke again.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Bond was supposed to smoke in CR but it was soon turned down because EON didn't want young viewers to think it was cool to smoke. Nonetheless Craig's Bond gets in heavy action that would require top notch fitness and good health. I like the change. Brosnan smoked in DAD obviously. Part of it was set in Cuba. If Bond went to Cuba what else would he smoke but Cuban cigars??
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Bond was supposed to smoke in CR but it was soon turned down because EON didn't want young viewers to think it was cool to smoke.
    These anti-smoking laws and stuff are the dumbest things ever, shame Bond is following there stupidity. This is proof that Bond is more and more MTV-orientated and PC-comformist. This shows that CR and Craig are simply NOT adult-orientated. Maybe more than the Brosnan era, but still much more kid orientated than adult.
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    And what about drinks? Don't you think he should show more diversity choosing his drinks? Vesper Martini it's ok for CR an QOS, but I would like to see more of the true connaisseur that he is (going to a restaurant and making an "excellent choice Mr. Bond")
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @0013 I too agree. In novels and film across the board Bond is an amazing connoisseur and not much of that has been seen in CR and QoS, but when it does it shines. I want Bond to react to drinks in Connery's prose. DN-DAF all have Bond showing great knowledge in the brew and make of drinks. Good submission.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    I watched a Martin Scorsese documentary the other day called 'Public Speaking', about the writer Fran Lebowitz. She said that smoking now is like homosexuality back in the 60's: it was frowned upon and heavily illegal. That's how it feels now. Years and years ago, everyone smoked. Now? You're a monster if you choose to do so. I would love to see Bond smoke. Maybe kill two birds with one stone and have him wake up in his apartment at one point in the movie AND smoke? It's just the mundane things that I would love to see. I always read about him cooking breakfast in the novels, why not show that?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    I love it when in the earlier films, when M asks Bond 'Have you heard of...?', and Bond displays an amazing connaissance about almost every subject. A thing I really miss in the Craig film and would love to see returning again. Would certainly change from the boring M briefing of the Craig era.
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    Bond is a relic of the cold war! He doesn't need to match his era, he even didn't like the Beatles in the 60's.
    Regretfully most of the times the producers "gave the people what they want", not what the fans would like...
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Good catch Creasy. I think It would be great to see Bond actually making things by his own hand. And I would love to see May. From a small amount of reading of her she and Bond would have great banter to share between each other. You've started a hell of a discussion. Can't wait for more opinions.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Thank you. I await as many opinions as possible, I love seeing what other fans would like to see from Bond if they had the choice. I know they're already making him seem more human, but they could take that one step further: the apartment, the Brosnan-era romancing that is completely unrelated to the mission at hand, May, smoking every now and then. Would love to see it all.
  • CatCat
    Posts: 25
    This is just for fun: I would say, having a sub-plot with Bond having to deal with a 'long lost identical twin' who's in with Mr. White who are both Elite members of The IMF, The Federal Reserve and Hilderberg Group with the main purpose of establishing a 'New World Order' (the emergence of a totalitarian one-world government). I just would like to see how the Fictitious Character, James Bond would undertake such a dilema. Again, just for fun....

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Sounds like a lot to tackle, Cat.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Bond wouldn't have an evil twin. One, that's too campy 60's style, and two his parents died when he was just eleven. He'd know if he had an evil brother/twin.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,723
    What was the name of that movie with Bond's brother... Operation Kid Brother ?? Played by Connery's own brother, no ?
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