Licence to Kill - Is it really that "underrated"?

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  • Posts: 2,107
    It may be underrated. But I prefer the movie over TLD and just because of the harder edge. TLD, although feels more comfortable, drags at some points during the movie. But in LTK I enjoy watching Bond cooking his schemes to take out the enemies one by one. I don't mind the americanization of Bond in this films. He still feels like a british agent, this time gone rogue, on a enemy turf. Also, the villain is both realistic and more charismatic than the ones seen in TLD.
  • On first and second viewing i remember thinking it was decent, but with a more recent viewing i feel like i'm watching some late eighties, saturday night american action thriller, and don't really get that 'Bond' feel, i honestly think quantum of Solace was better. And to me LTK is TOO violent and TOO grown-up. But as thinking it as not a bond film, but just as an action thriller, as others have mentioned, i can find it interesting.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    As I said before, TB is much more violent than LTK.
  • As I said before, TB is much more violent than LTK.
    fair point, but i think the darkness of the movie and the dark tone bring it down for me
  • Posts: 11,189
    Thunderball felt a lot more exotic though. The beautiful beaches, beautiful women and world-threatening scheme all give it more of a Bond feel IMO.
  • Posts: 4,762
    BAIN123 said:
    Thunderball felt a lot more exotic though. The beautiful beaches, beautiful women and world-threatening scheme all give it more of a Bond feel IMO.

    Well after all, it was the height of Bond-mania!
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,584
    No matter how underrated LTK is, it's still overrated ;-)
  • Posts: 11,189
    Did u watch it recently @NicNac?
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    It's weird, I'd always thought LTK was one of the better films of the series - until recently. In my "Bondathon" I watched OHMSS and LTK virtually back-to-back and couldn't help but feel a little disappointed by the latter so soon after watching the former. Where OHMSS felt imaginative, glossy and very English (a.l.a. Fleming), Kill had a very "hard" quality to it. The tone of the film is basically "Bond's mad and he's going to get even" and the setting of the Florida Keys, the cigar chomping FBI agents and the out-of-place dialogue ("I don't like it, you can finger me") don't strike me as appearing in a Fleming book.
    Of course, LTK would seem anti-climactic right after OHMSS. Tracy easily beats Pam, John Barry totally massacres Michael Kamen, and Portugal and the Swiss Alps are far more exotic locations(especially if you happen to be an American fan) than Mexico/"Isthmus" and the Florida Keys. That stated, I have a feeling that the George Lazenby vs. Telly Savalas DAF we never got probably would've looked somewhat similar at least in tone to what we got in LTK.
    Thunderball felt a lot more exotic though. The beautiful beaches, beautiful women and world-threatening scheme all give it more of a Bond feel IMO.
    Can't argue there. Plus TB had John Barry's music. I don't dislike LTK. It's currently at #0014 in my rankings. It does benefit from Dalton's and Davi's performances, the extended appearances of Leiter and Q, Talisa Soto's and Priscilla Barnes' loveliness, and the willingness to take some risks with the standard Bond formula. I'd call it a good midrange Bond film that's not the most underrated one but an underrated one nonetheless.

  • I have respect for LTK as it is out there on it's own and unfairly gets overlooked. I feel too many expect a Bond film to follow a certain formula and not to divate from the 'Bond' path. I find this movie refreshing because it has a different style and storyline to the usual. It is very un-bond in many ways and quite rightly is praised more as a stand alone action / revenge flick than the Bond we know and love. The success of Bond as a fictional icon should be measured more with a strong storyline rather than it having to conform to the Bond stereotypes. I love the Bond films saturated in the 'formula' but now and again we need a different interpretation to remind us not to force James Bond into becoming a bloated parody of himself.
  • Maybe not by the general public, but it's one of the most overrated by fans imho.
  • 001001
    Posts: 1,575
    It's very good in bits and has some not so good bits in it so i think it's overrated if people rate this film.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    edited August 2011 Posts: 7,584
    Maybe not by the general public, but it's one of the most overrated by fans imho.
    Agreed
    Did u watch it recently @NicNac?
    Not recently but I've seen it many times. It lacks style.
  • edited August 2011 Posts: 1,778
    It definatly deserved a better director than John Glen, that is for certain. Supposidly Dalton started screaming at Glen on set after he was fed up with his obvious lack of interest in the story and characters and just wanted to focus on the action and explosions.

    I honestly believe if Dalton just had a better director and bigger budget for his films he could've stared in one of the all-time great Bond films, ranked next to the likes of FRWL, OHMSS, TSWLM, and CR. That man deserved better. And I truly believe he was just waiting to make his definintive Bond film which could've easily been his 3rd film as they were planning to replace Glen as director after LTK underperfomed.

    Bond 17 staring Timothy Dalton in my mind is the greatest missed opportunity in the franchise's history. Instead we got Pierce Brosnan in the mediocore Goldeneye and 3 of the worst Bond films that followed.
  • edited August 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Goldeneye was and is far better than either of Dalton's films. In fact I was watching TLD yesterday and turned it off just after the funfair section.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Goldeneye was and is far better than either of Dalton's films. In fact I was watching TLD yesterday and turned it off just after the funfair section.
    Don't worry, the doctor will be there shortly...

  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Great responses…

    I would’ve loved to see Dalton and Hunt work together, and after reading @BAIN123’s article, about Dalton’s and Glen’s “slanging match”…

    As for Licence To Kill I found it to be underrated by the general public, and for Bond fans, well, for every who loves it, there’s someone who dislikes it, so I think it balances out. (I love it, by the way!).

    Timothy Dalton is excellent as Bond; although this time we don’t see Fleming’s consummate professional, but a more animalistic interpretation, where Bond loses his sheen of sophistication, exposing the blunt instrument beneath. For most of the movie Bond fights with his heart, the personal nature of the story clouding his judgement, making his aim sloppy. It is only once Bond learns about the stinger missiles is he finally able to treat his vendetta as a mission, and he finally gains control of the situation.
  • edited August 2011 Posts: 11,189
    The thing that bugs me is this:

    In the YOLT novel Bond is grieving from the death of his wife, his most personal loss yet. He doesn't sulk and go AWOL on a personal vendetta against Blofeld. Instead he tries (and fails) to get back to work. His grief is making him sloppy and M has had enough and wants to nip it in the bud ASAP.

    When Bond receives his mission at the Castle of Death he doesn't even know the mad doctor in question is Blofeld. Once he finds out he relishes the opportunity of facing his old adversary again and avenging his wife's death. Compare that to Kill where he runs off and gets shot at by his own team.

    Bond, even in his darkest of days, tended to wait for the opportunity of revenge to come to HIM before striking.
  • Goldeneye was and is far better than either of Dalton's films. In fact I was watching TLD yesterday and turned it off just after the funfair section.
    If LTK is the most underrated with the general public than GE must be the most overrated. People were just happy to see Bond again after such a long hiatus. If it came sooner or was an "in-between" film I doubt it would be remembered as fondly. It's a dull uninspired mess at times with hands down one of the worst performances by an actor as James Bond. Atleast Dalton was interesting to watch.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Dalton obviously didn't stop me from turning off Daylights yesterday ;) I like him but the plot and most of the characters in the film arent that memorable.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    To a degree, yes. More and more I am seeing positive comments about not just LTK, but TLD also. People (on and off the internet), are giving Dalton and his films the positive credit they deserve. I would say that his era as a whole is not as underrated as it has been in the past.

    And the only reason GE is considered good, it's because the spirit of the Dalton era that remain in the film. Take, for instance, what Trevelyan says about all the Martini's that silence the screams of all the men Bond has killed, that line means nothing in regards to Brosnans Bond. Not only is this his first film so we don't know much about his take* on the character, but also the images that line conjures up, well that's just not Brosnans style. And as for relic of the cold war, and a sexist mysogonist dinosaur, again I don't know who they think they are kidding, but they are not talking about Brosnans Bond.

    * With hindsight, we know he never had a take on the character.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Goldeneye was and is far better than either of Dalton's films. In fact I was watching TLD yesterday and turned it off just after the funfair section.
    You are not alone Bain,it's #21 on my list.
    I can't get on with it and Dalton to me is not as good as he was in LTK.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    Goldeneye was and is far better than either of Dalton's films. In fact I was watching TLD yesterday and turned it off just after the funfair section.
    If LTK is the most underrated with the general public than GE must be the most overrated. People were just happy to see Bond again after such a long hiatus. If it came sooner or was an "in-between" film I doubt it would be remembered as fondly. It's a dull uninspired mess at times with hands down one of the worst performances by an actor as James Bond. Atleast Dalton was interesting to watch.
    I disagree. Yes, the long-awaited return of Bond may have had some impact on its popularity back then, however it can hardly be held accountable for its success among some of our members today. Those who are in their teens or early twenties never consciously experienced the hiatus and therefore can't appreciate the comeback like some of the elders.

    The GE script, written by the talented Michael France, is handsdown one of the freshest Bond scripts of the last 30 years. It ditches formula all the way through and messes with one's expectations. After this, they returned to the YOLT concept, with a villain straight from comic book land and something as silly as that stealth boat and drill. And we have an evil looking German enforcer. Wow, how original. ;;)

    The acting in the film is sublime. All cast members work well, including the folks at MI6 (Dench, Bond, Kitchen), the ladies (Scorupco, Janssen), the villains (Bean, John, Cumming) and the allies (Baker, Coltrane, Karyo) and yes, Brosnan himself works well too.

    Some of the action in this film is among the best action I've ever seen in a Bond film. When Bond shoots himself to freedom in the St. Petersburg prison, the guns FINALLY make a deafeningly loud noise (as is the case in reality), he wastes a dozen soldiers (Bond, the ruthless killer), there's a lot of turmoil - I love it.

    The music for this film is if anything underrated. It's not Serra's best score but it's arguably the best Bond score since long. Cold and metallic, like the film itself, but dark and exciting. The theme song is IMO the best we've had since AVTAK.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Goldeneye was and is far better than either of Dalton's films. In fact I was watching TLD yesterday and turned it off just after the funfair section.
    You are not alone Bain,it's #21 on my list.
    I can't get on with it and Dalton to me is not as good as he was in LTK.

    I'm going to put it down to feeling tired and/or watching DN before hand. I've always rather liked it but never considered it anything very special. However, it didn't keep my full attention this time :-S

    Aside from Dalton's presence, the film feels like a fairly run-of-the-mill thriller with some very good individual scenes but ultimately still has a rather tired feel. Goldeneye had Xenya Onatopp, Jack Wade, Alec Trevelyan, General Oromov and M played by Judi Dench. These characters alone make the film far superior IMHHO.
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 546
    I enjoyed LTK. It had the right blend of comedy, action, & romance. At the time when LTK was in theaters it did not strike a core with Bond fans.It's probably because Bond fans could not get into a Bond film that was about revenge.So yes, it was underrated at the time. But in this generation it receives tremendous praise! IMO, Richard Maibaum & Michael G. Wilson did a great job writing the script. They took some plot holes from Ian Fleming's LALD novel & put it in the movie. I like how it was dark & gritty.

    Sir Timothy Dalton was excellent as James Bond. I loved his style Dalton brought to the James Bond character. A more darker element. (Which I thought was a nice touch) Robert Davi was awesome as the Bond Villian Franz Sanchez. The Franz Sanchez character was ruthless. I also liked Benicio Del Toro as Dario, but I wish he would have received more screen time. That way we could see character development for Dario. And Talisa Soto & Carey Lowell made good Bond Girls. But between the both of them, Carey Lowell as Pam Bouvier was a better Bond Girl.

    Overall, LTK was an enjoyable Bond film. Great action, cool loacations, great Bond Villian & a good plot. LTK does not deeserve so much hate.

  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,635
    LTK is really good. I actually think that the gore added that dark feeling to the film, specially when you realize that the gunbarrel music had a sort of dark feeling also.
    But it wasn't a excessive gore, it was normal. It could be worst if they had really shown the people's "pieces" after the death.
  • Posts: 66
    For me LTK is so strong because it goes into Bonds human side, true it could of explored a side other than anger, but it was a step in the right direction. Also Bond becoming part of the villians crew by gaining trust reminds me of Flemmings "The Man With the Golden Gun".
  • One of the best bond films ever...it's underrated because TD is not everyone's cup of tea. He's second only to Sean...two awesome bond films under his belt...mucho respect.
  • Posts: 72
    <blockquote rel="BAIN123">Goldeneye was and is far better than either of Dalton's films. In fact I was watching TLD yesterday and turned it off just after the funfair section. </blockquote>

    Don't worry, the doctor will be there shortly...

    Hey man I agree with Baine123

  • Posts: 6,432
    One of the best Bond movies IMO.
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