Pope Francis

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  • Posts: 9,843
    "He (Stalin) crushed the Russian Orthodox Church, leveling thousands of churches and shooting more than 100,000 priests, monks and nuns between 1937 and 1938.

    N.B. Adolf Hitler is left off this list because it is widely acknowledged that, while he abhorred organized religion, there is much evidence that he engaged in “nazi mysticism” or occultism."

    from the site i posted enjoy Anon
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 4,813
    'Oh AYE. There's a nooo POOP'

    willy.jpg
  • Posts: 246
    Risico007 wrote:
    "He (Stalin) crushed the Russian Orthodox Church, leveling thousands of churches and shooting more than 100,000 priests, monks and nuns between 1937 and 1938

    And a lot worse besides. However, it doesn't mean his motivation for doing so was a result of his atheism. More like anti-theism born out of reading Lenin coupled with paranoia about the potential for organised religion to mobilise political opposition.

    He also did his best to wipe out political rivals and erase dissent in order to take absolute political control. But no one would say that was evidence of Stalin being apolitical. Hard to think of more inappropriate way of describing him.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2013 Posts: 9,117
    Risico007 wrote:
    "He (Stalin) crushed the Russian Orthodox Church, leveling thousands of churches and shooting more than 100,000 priests, monks and nuns between 1937 and 1938.

    N.B. Adolf Hitler is left off this list because it is widely acknowledged that, while he abhorred organized religion, there is much evidence that he engaged in “nazi mysticism” or occultism."

    from the site i posted enjoy Anon

    Stalin killed people because he was mental.

    No one has ever been killed in the name of atheism because athesim by its very definition has no cause. It is a vacuum.

    Attributing things as 'done in the cause of atheism' shows how little grasp you have of the subject.

    The inquistion was done primarily to enrich Rome but as a by product to enslave the populace into believing through fear. Nonetheless it was done in the name of religion.

    9/11 and 7/7 were done in the name of religion.

    Whilst the paedo priest stuff is not done in the name of religion it seems strange that in this sector of society it does seem more prevelant per head. How many priests are there in the average town? Half a dozen? Ten? Its a really tiny percentage but the amount of paedos seems rather disproportionate. Is that because its seen as a profession with good access to children, power and trust to give the opportunity and most importantly the fact that you are unlikely to end up going to jail as the Vatican will square it away with an out of court settlement?

    I dont recall anyone ever being brought to trial and using the name of atheism as a defence because there are no leaders, no doctrine, no churches - you cant level any blame at a void.
  • Posts: 498
    <center>My thoughts on the subject:

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    :))
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 203
    as a catholic myself ... i couldn't be happier! i don't understand the extream anger towards catholisism. the catholic church feeds, clothes and cares for more people than any other organization in the world. i guess we have to pray for people who are filled with such hate and ignorance ... they have deep seeded issues and are only hurting themselves! the catholic church will be here for another 2000 years there is nothing they can do about it!
  • RENEGADE_GANGRENEGADE_GANG Banned
    edited March 2013 Posts: 11
    I myself am a Catholic, but am disgusted with the Catholic church. Jesus would also be ashamed to see all the wealth and luxury accumulated throughout the years of the church. For God sakes the wardrobe of the pope is worth enough money it could feed hundreds. I'm tired of hearing about the Pope, lets talk about real issues such as the homeless, the downtrodden and starving. The Pope and his perverse cardinals all get to live a life of leisure , its a joke. I believe in Jesus, not the corrupt organizations that naive and gullible sheeple buy into.
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 246
    mnhettia wrote:
    as a catholic myself ... i couldn't be happier! i don't understand the extream anger towards catholisism. the catholic church feeds, clothes and cares for more people than any other organization in the world. i guess we have to pray for people who are filled with such hate and ignorance ... they have deep seeded issues and are only hurting themselves! the catholic church will be here for another 2000 years there is nothing they can do about it!

    I think a lot of the anger comes from how their staff bugger small children and the fact that they've systematically covered it up. There's a lot more, but isn't just this one matter enough to make you angry with your church? Doesn't it make you question whether it's a good thing to have a bunch of child abusers pretending to know the mind of god and directing the lives of millions of credulous people.

  • They've just hailed a new pope in, which is quite ironic, because "Hailed Pope" is an anagram of paedophile.


    Did you know the new Pope has only got one lung?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    578713_298939066849144_1260491120_n.jpg?w=584
  • Posts: 15,106
    I am an atheist, former Catholic. I am pretty much as anticlerical as one can be. It could have been much worse I guess, Cardinal Marc Ouellet for instance. If the new pope Francis condemns without ambiguity and with an iron fist the pedophile priests, if he does not go on war against contraceptives, if he does not flirt with Intelligent Design, then we might have the lesser evil. Still, he is at the head of an organization that is backward and which beliefs are not based on evidence and through ignorance has oppressed many people over centuries. Ideally, he would be the last pope. One can dream. Still, because there are worse ones than him, I wish him a long life. Seriously.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    556763_10151499265575155_1236310103_n.jpg

    Should give you a rough idea of what we're dealing with.
  • Posts: 15,106
    RC7 wrote:
    556763_10151499265575155_1236310103_n.jpg

    Should give you a rough idea of what we're dealing with.

    Okay, only very slightly lesser evil. If same-sex marriage is a work of the devil, then he needs to demonstrate: 1)that the Devil exist and 2)that he is responsible for it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,160
    If Pope Francis is smart, he demonstrates his power by openly denouncing his previous statements and inviting the Christian world to the 21st Century. THAT would earn him my full respect. Tell the world you were wrong. Tell the world to open itself up to the future for the only alternative is to die a Darwinian death: those who refuse to evolve, have little chance of survival. Bottom line, if this man makes some daring statements against his own orthodoxy and honestly takes back certain previous statements, I will sing a happy hallelujah in his name.

    If he doesn't, then ... [*petting the white cat on my lap while calling for number 4*]
  • Posts: 15,106
    DarthDimi wrote:
    If Pope Francis is smart, he demonstrates his power by openly denouncing his previous statements and inviting the Christian world to the 21st Century. THAT would earn him my full respect. Tell the world you were wrong. Tell the world to open itself up to the future for the only alternative is to die a Darwinian death: those who refuse to evolve, have little chance of survival. Bottom line, if this man makes some daring statements against his own orthodoxy and honestly takes back certain previous statements, I will sing a happy hallelujah in his name.

    If he doesn't, then ... [*petting the white cat on my lap while calling for number 4*]

    It took them how long to say that Galileo was not wrong? And how long about Darwin?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    I myself am a Catholic, but am disgusted with the Catholic church. Jesus would also be ashamed to see all the wealth and luxury accumulated throughout the years of the church. For God sakes the wardrobe of the pope is worth enough money it could feed hundreds. I'm tired of hearing about the Pope, lets talk about real issues such as the homeless, the downtrodden and starving. The Pope and his perverse cardinals all get to live a life of leisure , its a joke. I believe in Jesus, not the corrupt organizations that naive and gullible sheeple buy into.

    Oh, so that explains your previous support for the terrorist faction the IRA and their actions, @Data_Thief.
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Might be time to give a Thought to the babel Fish !
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2013 Posts: 18,264
    As a stauch anti-Romanist I'd have to say I would like to see an end to the Papacy and Popery in all its forms. The amount of cover-ups there re child abuse, the Vatican bank and other issues is indeed shocking. They need to get their house in order. Having said all that Pope Francis I seems so far to have an uncharacteristic humility in the role very at odds with previous incarnations of the Bishop of Rome. I wish him well in his task, even though I don't agree with his Church's teachings or his position. He will need a lot of luck to get by, but he seems to have been a decent human being in the past, so who am I or any of us to judge?
  • Posts: 15,106
    Dragonpol wrote:
    As a stauch anti-Romanist I'd have to say I would like to see an end to the Papacy and Popery in all its forms. The amount of cover-ups there re child abuse, the Vatican bank and other issues is indeed shocking. They need to get their house in order. Having said all that Pope Francis I seems so far to have an uncharacteristic humility in the role very at odds with previous incarnations of the Bishop of Rome.

    Maybe the best choice would have been the worst. But the Church is on borrowed time I think, at least in the Western world.
  • Regarding Pope Francis and the Catholic Church as a whole, it is clear that a great many people posting here are simply misinformed. You are well within your rights to disagree with the Church's stance on everything from the existence of God on down, but you owe to yourselves and the Church to at least get the basic facts right.

    First of all, the Church has never been a real enemy of science. It has made many mistakes over the years, but it has always been a supporter of science. The Church helped establish the university system, and many prominent philosophers and scientists have been Catholics, and even priests. Copernicus was a priest, Gregor Mendel was a monk, and Georges LeMaitre (Who developed the big bang theory) was a priest. The Church never opposed evolution, in addition to all of this.

    Now, many people have already mentioned Galileo, and he will likely be mentioned many times again. But the Galileo affair was far more complex than it is remembered today. First of all, Galileo's theory was not actually strictly correct. Most importantly, he believed that the sun was the center of the universe, which is obviously false. There was another perfectly legitimate argument against his theory, namely that if the Earth revolved around the sun, other stars in the night sky would show parallax. This objection was perfectly valid, and Galileo had no answer for it. Despite his theory not being proven, Galileo claimed that it was, and also claimed the authority to interpret Scripture (he was a Catholic too) based on it. This was what truly irritated the Vatican. On a side note, Galileo was initially close to Pope Urban VIII, but had eventually lost his favor due to his sometimes unfriendly personality. Galileo was ultimately sentenced to house arrest (he lived in a mansion), and continued to receive the Sacraments. The Catholic Church actually changed its stance on Galileo in the 1700's, before the question of parallax had been answered. Everybody remembers John Paul II's apology in 1992, but that was far after the fact.

    There can be really no defense made for the pedophile scandal, as it was a crime against God, man, and decency. Everyone in all corners of the globe acknowledges it. Only a few clarifications can be made. First, the majority of the incidences themselves were decades ago, and reports now are nearly non-existent. Second of all, both Benedict XVI and Francis have been noted for their strong desire to make things different in terms of reporting and punishing those convicted. While the crimes of the past were great, the Church has made great strides (as has the rest of the world) in changing how things like this are dealt with.

    Francis himself is a very humble man. When he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires, he sold the official residence and went to live in an apartment, cooked his meals, and rode the bus to work like any other worker. Many of his writings are about economic injustice and the way the everyone should treat the poor and order their lives. And despite his oppositon to homosexual behavior, he went to personally work at AIDS hospices, where he helped to clean and feed dying victims, regardless of how they got the disease. If that is not on some level impressive, I don't know what is.

    The last point is the idea that believing in God makes someone stupid. I can understand why someone wouldn't believe in God, and obviously why then he'd consider that the correct stance. But to claim that you are verifiably, undoubtedly more intelligent than Elizabeth Anscombe, Thomas Aquinas, Rene Descartes, Kurt Godel, Immanuel Kant, Antoine Lavoisier, Max Planck, and all the scientists mentioned at the start is simply mind-boggling. Perhaps we could all at least acknowledge that it's possible to hold different views, even radically so, without being idiots?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited March 2013 Posts: 17,789
    Perhaps we could all at least acknowledge that it's possible to hold different views, even radically so, without being idiots?
    No. Nope. Some views actually are stupid.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,160
    Dragonpol wrote:
    I myself am a Catholic, but am disgusted with the Catholic church. Jesus would also be ashamed to see all the wealth and luxury accumulated throughout the years of the church. For God sakes the wardrobe of the pope is worth enough money it could feed hundreds. I'm tired of hearing about the Pope, lets talk about real issues such as the homeless, the downtrodden and starving. The Pope and his perverse cardinals all get to live a life of leisure , its a joke. I believe in Jesus, not the corrupt organizations that naive and gullible sheeple buy into.

    Oh, so that explains your previous support for the terrorist faction the IRA and their actions, @Data_Thief.

    Guys, it's IFM.

  • chrisisall wrote:
    Perhaps we could all at least acknowledge that it's possible to hold different views, even radically so, without being idiots?
    No. Nope. Some views actually are stupid.

    Maybe some, but that's certainly the exception and not the rule.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    I myself am a Catholic, but am disgusted with the Catholic church. Jesus would also be ashamed to see all the wealth and luxury accumulated throughout the years of the church. For God sakes the wardrobe of the pope is worth enough money it could feed hundreds. I'm tired of hearing about the Pope, lets talk about real issues such as the homeless, the downtrodden and starving. The Pope and his perverse cardinals all get to live a life of leisure , its a joke. I believe in Jesus, not the corrupt organizations that naive and gullible sheeple buy into.

    Oh, so that explains your previous support for the terrorist faction the IRA and their actions, @Data_Thief.

    Guys, it's IFM.

    Oh, I've done that too, DD. He has no more implacable opponent on MI6 than I, I can assure you of that. IRA espousing idiot! :-L
  • WillardWhyteWillardWhyte Midnight Society #ProjectMoon
    Posts: 784
    Wow alot of arrogant people on here.... If you don't believe in religion, or have no care about this event.... don't even post or talk about it.

    I hope the new Pope does great work in the future.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Regarding Pope Francis and the Catholic Church as a whole, it is clear that a great many people posting here are simply misinformed. You are well within your rights to disagree with the Church's stance on everything from the existence of God on down, but you owe to yourselves and the Church to at least get the basic facts right.

    First of all, the Church has never been a real enemy of science. It has made many mistakes over the years, but it has always been a supporter of science. The Church helped establish the university system, and many prominent philosophers and scientists have been Catholics, and even priests. Copernicus was a priest, Gregor Mendel was a monk, and Georges LeMaitre (Who developed the big bang theory) was a priest. The Church never opposed evolution, in addition to all of this.

    Now, many people have already mentioned Galileo, and he will likely be mentioned many times again. But the Galileo affair was far more complex than it is remembered today. First of all, Galileo's theory was not actually strictly correct. Most importantly, he believed that the sun was the center of the universe, which is obviously false. There was another perfectly legitimate argument against his theory, namely that if the Earth revolved around the sun, other stars in the night sky would show parallax. This objection was perfectly valid, and Galileo had no answer for it. Despite his theory not being proven, Galileo claimed that it was, and also claimed the authority to interpret Scripture (he was a Catholic too) based on it. This was what truly irritated the Vatican. On a side note, Galileo was initially close to Pope Urban VIII, but had eventually lost his favor due to his sometimes unfriendly personality. Galileo was ultimately sentenced to house arrest (he lived in a mansion), and continued to receive the Sacraments. The Catholic Church actually changed its stance on Galileo in the 1700's, before the question of parallax had been answered. Everybody remembers John Paul II's apology in 1992, but that was far after the fact.

    There can be really no defense made for the pedophile scandal, as it was a crime against God, man, and decency. Everyone in all corners of the globe acknowledges it. Only a few clarifications can be made. First, the majority of the incidences themselves were decades ago, and reports now are nearly non-existent. Second of all, both Benedict XVI and Francis have been noted for their strong desire to make things different in terms of reporting and punishing those convicted. While the crimes of the past were great, the Church has made great strides (as has the rest of the world) in changing how things like this are dealt with.

    Francis himself is a very humble man. When he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires, he sold the official residence and went to live in an apartment, cooked his meals, and rode the bus to work like any other worker. Many of his writings are about economic injustice and the way the everyone should treat the poor and order their lives. And despite his oppositon to homosexual behavior, he went to personally work at AIDS hospices, where he helped to clean and feed dying victims, regardless of how they got the disease. If that is not on some level impressive, I don't know what is.

    The last point is the idea that believing in God makes someone stupid. I can understand why someone wouldn't believe in God, and obviously why then he'd consider that the correct stance. But to claim that you are verifiably, undoubtedly more intelligent than Elizabeth Anscombe, Thomas Aquinas, Rene Descartes, Kurt Godel, Immanuel Kant, Antoine Lavoisier, Max Planck, and all the scientists mentioned at the start is simply mind-boggling. Perhaps we could all at least acknowledge that it's possible to hold different views, even radically so, without being idiots?

    I don't pretend to be smarter than Aquinas, however his argument for God is poor, no matter how intelligent he was. And Pascal may have been a brilliant mathematician, his wager is by far one of the dumbest argument for worship ever conceived. It's not that belief in God is stupid, it is just that it utterly lacks evidence. To believe that Jesus was god and appointed a Representative on Earth and threw this representative tells you he cares with who you have consensual sex with is, well, that is getting pretty ridiculous. I ask one thing, one simple thing for believers and especially for Catholic priests: prove your beliefs are true. Until then, don't bother preaching.

    Regarding Galileo, he was wrong on a number of things, yet he was closer to truth than the Church at the time, and they shut him up not based on evidence, but on their own narrow perception of life. Yes, the Catholic Church was not as hostile to Darwin's theory of evolution as other Christian denominations, it still only officially recognized it as valid... when? In 1996? And before let's say the Church's position given to the believers was ambiguous at best. Even the retired Pope Benedict XVI seemed at some point to support Intelligent Design. Even if the Church still supports evolutions, it is utterly irresposible, and shows that the temptation of ignorance is still very strong. And I am talking about the many Catholic believers, in the UK, the US and elsewhere who are STILL Creationists. Can't they get their info right from their God?

  • Posts: 15,106
    Wow alot of arrogant people on here.... If you don't believe in religion, or have no care about this event.... don't even post or talk about it.

    I care about religion. A priest says he gets his info from God. I don't think there is a God. There's a problem here, if he wants to tell me how to lead my life!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    chrisisall wrote:
    Perhaps we could all at least acknowledge that it's possible to hold different views, even radically so, without being idiots?
    No. Nope. Some views actually are stupid.

    Maybe some, but that's certainly the exception and not the rule.
    No. Nope. Nearly half of my country voted for Romney. That tells me stupid views are FAR from the exception.
    :P
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Anon wrote:
    I was very annoyed to see this news on the TV. All ready to watch Great British Menu on BBC2 and there was just a man in a white frock talking Latin on a balcony. Programme eventually started 5 min late. Very annoyed.
    Freedom of speech is perfectly fine but I can see how people then will react defensively when being labelled simple minded.

    I agree with you there - simple-minded people do tend to get defensive when their simple-mindedness is pointed out to them. It's the same with fat people. Tell a tubby that they're overweight and they get defensive.

    That is true, tubby people can get offended when being told they are overweight. But that is being factual. Maybe difficult for them to hear but it is just being factual. However labelling people as being simple minded due to them having a faith or belief is all together different.


    Exactly, @myworldisenough. It is called "name-calling" and is a childish, mean spirited thing that can become a downward spiral. As so aptly demonstrated by some posters.
This discussion has been closed.