What if Casino Royale had been the first film?

edited March 2013 in Bond Movies Posts: 3,236
What if Fleming hadn't sold the rights to Climax! TV and had instead sold it along with the rest of the books & material to Broccoli and Saltzman? What it would it have been like? How would they have changed the plot? Who would they have casted as the different roles? Would this have affected the casting of Connery? Would they have felt more obliged to follow the book order and the books' plots? Would Bondamania have taken off and would we be here discussing this?

I must admit I'm not really sure about many of the questions myself. I think it's of paramount importance that they release Goldfinger as soon as possible. That movie launched Bondamania and without it we likely wouldn't be here. That's my main worry, although I'd have loved to see his take on the character.

I've also not read any of the novels, so I'm not entirely sure what parts of the plot they changed for the Craig version. I know they added in most if not all of the first hour, and I know they added the action scene at the end, which would leave the film at less than an hour and a half, which is quite short. Dr. No was something like 1 hour 45 minutes or 1 hour 50 minutes, so they would have probably added some form of introduction like in the 2006 movie.

Any thoughts or comments or concerns on my little ramble?
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Comments

  • Posts: 30
    I doubt anyone would have started with Casino Royale even if it were an option.

    Weren't a good chunk of the Fleming books attempts at movies or TV shows? Thunderball was a screenplay, For Your Eyes Only was a collection of would-be TV episodes, Dr. No was a TV pilot. Moonraker started as a movie idea but I don't think it was ever a screenplay as such.

    They would have begun with something more cinema-friendly regardless.
  • I didn't know that about Dr. No and For Your Eyes Only. Would they have done Casino Royale at some point and would it have been serious, or it would it wind up like Diamonds are Forever or The Man With the Golden Gun and get camped up and turned on its head? I shudder to think what that would have been like.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Sean in CR... That would have been something. 8->
  • I wonder what they would have done about the testes-carpet beater/rope scene. There is almost no way it would have made it past the censors. It would be a shame to lose it, but maybe they could replace with a less...graphic form of torture.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited March 2013 Posts: 28,694
    I wonder what they would have done about the testes-carpet beater/rope scene. There is almost no way it would have made it past the censors. It would be a shame to lose it, but maybe they could replace with a less...graphic form of torture.

    Exactly. In many ways EON only recently acquiring the rights for CR around the start of the new millennium was the best luck they could have hoped for. Thanks to the burning of the Hays code films of our day can feature the kind of heavy content found in Fleming's novel that would have likely been scrapped in the 60s. The ability to include scenes like the torture bit allow a more accurate adaption of Fleming's work to be made.
  • I wonder what they would have done about the testes-carpet beater/rope scene. There is almost no way it would have made it past the censors. It would be a shame to lose it, but maybe they could replace with a less...graphic form of torture.

    Exactly. In many ways EON only recently acquiring the rights for CR around the start of the new millennium was the best luck they could have hoped for. Thanks to the burning of the Hays code films of our day can feature the kind of heavy content found in Fleming's novel that would have likely been scrapped in the 60s. The ability to include scenes like the torture bit allow a more accurate adaption of Fleming's work to be made.

    Very true. But still, the idea of Connery or Dalton in Casino Royale is just great. Lazenby would be in way over his head; Moore would be out of his element, and I actually think Brosnan could do fairly well, but he wouldn't touch the first three in a film like that.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited March 2013 Posts: 28,694
    I wonder what they would have done about the testes-carpet beater/rope scene. There is almost no way it would have made it past the censors. It would be a shame to lose it, but maybe they could replace with a less...graphic form of torture.

    Exactly. In many ways EON only recently acquiring the rights for CR around the start of the new millennium was the best luck they could have hoped for. Thanks to the burning of the Hays code films of our day can feature the kind of heavy content found in Fleming's novel that would have likely been scrapped in the 60s. The ability to include scenes like the torture bit allow a more accurate adaption of Fleming's work to be made.

    Very true. But still, the idea of Connery or Dalton in Casino Royale is just great. Lazenby would be in way over his head; Moore would be out of his element, and I actually think Brosnan could do fairly well, but he wouldn't touch the first three in a film like that.

    It would have been something, yes. The good news is that Dan gave us a hell of a performance in 06.
  • Posts: 4,813
    Well said Brady- I have a difficult time picturing CR being done any other time/with any other actor.
    I still struggle to even finish the Barry Nelson version....
  • Posts: 15,123
    I wonder what they would have done about the testes-carpet beater/rope scene. There is almost no way it would have made it past the censors. It would be a shame to lose it, but maybe they could replace with a less...graphic form of torture.

    Exactly. In many ways EON only recently acquiring the rights for CR around the start of the new millennium was the best luck they could have hoped for. Thanks to the burning of the Hays code films of our day can feature the kind of heavy content found in Fleming's novel that would have likely been scrapped in the 60s. The ability to include scenes like the torture bit allow a more accurate adaption of Fleming's work to be made.

    I think the torture scene would have ended up like Bond being beaten up in DN: nothing too graphic, no beating up of the testicles, maybe Bond would have had his back whipped.

    As of how they would have modified the whole of the novel to adapt it to the screen... I am not sure it would have been possible, come to think of it.
  • Ludovico wrote:
    I wonder what they would have done about the testes-carpet beater/rope scene. There is almost no way it would have made it past the censors. It would be a shame to lose it, but maybe they could replace with a less...graphic form of torture.

    Exactly. In many ways EON only recently acquiring the rights for CR around the start of the new millennium was the best luck they could have hoped for. Thanks to the burning of the Hays code films of our day can feature the kind of heavy content found in Fleming's novel that would have likely been scrapped in the 60s. The ability to include scenes like the torture bit allow a more accurate adaption of Fleming's work to be made.

    I think the torture scene would have ended up like Bond being beaten up in DN: nothing too graphic, no beating up of the testicles, maybe Bond would have had his back whipped.

    As of how they would have modified the whole of the novel to adapt it to the screen... I am not sure it would have been possible, come to think of it.

    Good thinking about the torture. But they did modify it for the 2006 adaptation, adding what amounts to an hour long pretitle sequence and the big action ending.

    Actually, about the first hour, I've always felt that it was like two movies stitched together. Still love it, of course, but it really does almost completely break with the debriefing in the Bahamas and the train scene. Whole new set of characters, different goal, everything.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    But with the train scene we get Vesper, soon after Mathis, Felix, a great card game and more. Bond's mission was always leading him to Le Chiffre, he just didn't know it until after he connected Mollaka, Dimitrios and Carlos to him.
  • Posts: 15,123
    I have now been obsessing about this question. Here is what I imagined could have happened:

    1)The introduction of Bond might have been similar: in London, playing with Sylvia Trench, then bedding her later. Or simply introducing himself to Le Chiffre at the casino table, in the same way.
    2)Bond is sent to Royale-les_Eaux to beat Le Chiffre in chemin de fer.
    3)Le Chiffre would have been an agent of SPECTRE and not working for the Soviets. His origins would have also been different.
    4)The brothels closed down that caused his misfortune would have been changed with something else.
    5)The attempts on Bond's life in the novel would have been more numerous and some longer, leading to action scenes similar to the ones of DN.
    6)There would have been a showdown at the end, maybe a fist fight of some sort, after Bond gets beaten up the way I described above (much more toned down).

    I can't help but thinking it would have been quite similar to DN in terms of plot linearity and changes to the original story. That said, CR would have been much more difficult to adapt in 1962 than DN.
  • Posts: 1,548
    Sean in CR... That would have been something. 8->

    Cant quite see Sean giving as good a performance as Dan Craig though.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    LeChiffre wrote:
    Sean in CR... That would have been something. 8->

    Cant quite see Sean giving as good a performance as Dan Craig though.

    Absolutely agree. Dan has given the best performances yet, in my opinion, and has made Bond more than ever a character study worthy of being amongst the most compelling in the history of cinema.
  • LeChiffre wrote:
    Sean in CR... That would have been something. 8->

    Cant quite see Sean giving as good a performance as Dan Craig though.

    Absolutely agree. Dan has given the best performances yet, in my opinion, and has made Bond more than ever a character study worthy of being amongst the most compelling in the history of cinema.

    I echo that. Dan has not only made the role his own but with his performances can challange all the others to the crown of being the definitive movie Bond. His performances are most certainly compelling and of the highest quality.
  • mdo007mdo007 Katy, Texas
    Posts: 259
    that is an interesting scenario for Casino Royale. I would've like to know how Casino Royale with Sean Connery would've been like. I guess we will never know.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    mdo007 wrote:
    that is an interesting scenario for Casino Royale. I would've like to know how Casino Royale with Sean Connery would've been like. I guess we will never know.

    And think if we scored Hitchcock to direct! Now I'm just teasing myself...
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    Casino Royale with Connery would have been cool...hell id even pefer to trade the dr no film for it and The DR.No film is great- though id pefer if it was like the book y'know
    Dr No dies from being coverd in Guano and Honey Rider being nude...

    CR>FRWL>GF>TB
  • Posts: 72
    Sean in CR... That would have been something. 8->

    Yeah it would be, it would've been a better origin movie for Connery than Dr.No
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    mdo007 wrote:
    that is an interesting scenario for Casino Royale. I would've like to know how Casino Royale with Sean Connery would've been like. I guess we will never know.

    Very interesting thought. We'll definately never know.
  • Posts: 4,813
    Damn this thread for making me envision a 1962 Sean Connery in Casino Royale (never a big fan of Dr. No)..... I'll likely dream the imaginary movie tonight 8->
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Damn this thread for making me envision a 1962 Sean Connery in Casino Royale (never a big fan of Dr. No)..... I'll likely dream the imaginary movie tonight 8->

    I shall have to make some posters of it in the future. :-?
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,635
    If Casino Royale were the first film, obviously QoS needed to be the second. I'd like them to take place in 1960 and 1961, And yes, Connery would make a good performance i shall recon. And then, the movies would begin with DN in '62 and everything would happen as usual. ;)

    Craig's era probably would have started with both Risico and Property Of A Lady, And then, Skyfall.

    Craig's a great actor, and I liked CR and QoS, but i hated the reboot. It seems that Bond had to make it all over again in this whole "new franchise timeline". Feels like he'll be defeating once again all of the villain masterminds of the films, and that's horrid. I expect that Bond 24 makes Bond return to the classic Bond, without any connections with this reboot.
  • Posts: 15,123
    @X3MSonicX-We don't know if the second movie after this hypotethical CR would have been anything like QOS. Maybe the second movie would have been DN, maybe LALD.
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,635
    Ludovico wrote:
    @X3MSonicX-We don't know if the second movie after this hypotethical CR would have been anything like QOS. Maybe the second movie would have been DN, maybe LALD.

    Or even maybe, the whole CR film would be shortened to make CR and QoS together. We'd get something like 2h30min as length.
  • Posts: 15,123
    I I have been thinking about this what if scenario. I would have cast Leo McKern as Le Chiffre. Make him an agent of SPECTRE.
  • hullcityfanhullcityfan Banned
    Posts: 496
    It would be terrible Dr. No was easy and simple to start off with.
  • Posts: 15,123
    It would be terrible Dr. No was easy and simple to start off with.

    Still interesting as a what if scenario.
  • hullcityfanhullcityfan Banned
    Posts: 496
    Ludovico wrote:
    It would be terrible Dr. No was easy and simple to start off with.

    Still interesting as a what if scenario.

    They might hire the same people though as they did for Dr. No but it would just be weird.
  • edited June 2013 Posts: 15,123
    Ludovico wrote:
    It would be terrible Dr. No was easy and simple to start off with.

    Still interesting as a what if scenario.

    They might hire the same people though as they did for Dr. No but it would just be weird.

    Well, we don't know because it never happened. Had CR been the first movie of the series in 1962, we would have been used to it as the first Bond.
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