Daniel Craig's Fisticuffs

13

Comments

  • Posts: 498
    doubleoego wrote:
    . The focus and approach to such action should be to zero in on a credible and entertaining physical exchange that really compliments the intensity of how these people engage with the physical side of things in this line of spy work.

    Exactly


    doubleoego wrote:
    I don't want to see cookie cutter, mash and veg punches. I want Bond to engage in brutal beatdowns.

    I take your referring to that God-Awful Macau fight scene. Which was completely redundant in that part of the story and packed no intensity whatsoever, to see Bond raise his fists in that awkward manner was insulting to the action scenes that have come before.

  • Posts: 498
    The Craig fight scenes in Skyfall were largely disappointing. Fights with CGI komodo dragons and Jellyfish ? I think I spent more time smirking than being entertained. Maybe it was a bit of the two. If you look at his previous battles, there was some truly great sequences, such as the Steven Obanno and accomplice fight, and Edmund Slate for example, but can only hope they get back to something like that for the next release

    My sentiments exactly.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Skyfail wrote:
    doubleoego wrote:
    Not too sure but I think it would be pretty sad for the film makers to half arse the action just because they may feel they have no "worthy" competition.

    Yeah, its very sad indeed but look around you, can you think of a single action movie of this time which gets the kind of acclaim and recognition that Bourne got in its time. Oddly enough the only chance I feel for Bond to up its game is if Bourne returns or any action movie which makes that kind of impact. That seems hardly unlikely.

    You see even now Bourne Ultimatum has a higher ranking on sites such as rotten tomatoes and Imdb than Skyfall. My opinion is the kind of fame that Bourne got in 2007 for Ultimatum , made the producers want to up they're game for QoS

    Check this out , a fabulous action scene. Its blended perfectly with the story of the girl getting hunted by an assassin. I couldn't get the whole scene though.



    Freakishly Brutal and amazing wasn't it ? :D
    I believe this served as the inspiration for the Sienna Rooftops in QoS .

    I love the Bourne fight scenes, but the editing is sub par, and a lot of the shots go too far out of frame. This scene (and many other fighting pieces in the same series) are like QoS's worst shaky cam moments mixed with Nolan's most ill composed fighting shots in some of his films. The editing is too fast and the composition of the shots are often too far out of frame. Even QoS was better than this as far as in its presentation of the action, and in CR and Skyfall you didn't have any of this sub-par editing and could see what was going on each and every shot. You can rant and rave all day about how Bond takes inspiration from Bourne, but at the end of the day 007 does the action way better overall; even when the presentation is at its worst (like some of QoS) it is better than scenes like this.
  • Posts: 498

    I love the Bourne fight scenes, but the editing is sub par, and a lot of the shots go too far out of frame. This scene (and many other fighting pieces in the same series) are like QoS's worst shaky cam moments mixed with Nolan's most ill composed fighting shots in some of his films. The editing is too fast and the composition of the shots are often too far out of frame. Even QoS was better than this as far as in its presentation of the action, and in CR and Skyfall you didn't have any of this sub-par editing and could see what was going on each and every shot. You can rant and rave all day about how Bond takes inspiration from Bourne, but at the end of the day 007 does the action way better overall; even when the presentation is at its worst (like some of QoS) it is better than scenes like this.

    My opinion on Shaky cam:

    34141808.jpg

    There's no point of action if you loose the intensity of it.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Skyfail wrote:

    I love the Bourne fight scenes, but the editing is sub par, and a lot of the shots go too far out of frame. This scene (and many other fighting pieces in the same series) are like QoS's worst shaky cam moments mixed with Nolan's most ill composed fighting shots in some of his films. The editing is too fast and the composition of the shots are often too far out of frame. Even QoS was better than this as far as in its presentation of the action, and in CR and Skyfall you didn't have any of this sub-par editing and could see what was going on each and every shot. You can rant and rave all day about how Bond takes inspiration from Bourne, but at the end of the day 007 does the action way better overall; even when the presentation is at its worst (like some of QoS) it is better than scenes like this.

    My opinion on Shaky cam:

    34141808.jpg

    There's no point of action if you loose the intensity of it.

    There is no point in action if you can't bloody see what is going on either, something Bourne isn't the best at.
  • Posts: 498
    There is no point in action if you can't bloody see what is going on either, something Bourne isn't the best at.

    That's a matter of perspective .literally :P

    I can understand everything perfectly fine in QoS and in Bourne Ultimatum , If others can't keep up , well there's nothing I can do about it .

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Skyfail wrote:
    There is no point in action if you can't bloody see what is going on either, something Bourne isn't the best at.

    That's a matter of perspective .literally :P

    I can understand everything perfectly fine in QoS and in Bourne Ultimatum , If others can't keep up , well there's nothing I can do about it .
    So can I, but CR and Skyfall beat them both overall.
  • Posts: 498

    So can I

    Mate, If you also can there was no need of injecting this

    if you can't bloody see what is going on

    If as Bond fans we should always find a need to express our superiority or dominance over other franchises, that's a sad remark on us isn't it ?

    Instead we should be constantly analysing our competitors and discuss how we can 'one up' them.



  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Skyfail wrote:

    So can I

    Mate, If you also can there was no need of injecting this

    if you can't bloody see what is going on

    If as Bond fans we should always find a need to express our superiority or dominance over other franchises, that's a sad remark on us isn't it ?

    Instead we should be constantly analysing our competitors and discuss how we can 'one up' them.



    You make no sense. Analyzing our competitors to get an advantage or "one-up" them as you put it is the same thing as showing our superiority and dominance. Aside from all that, that wasn't what I was saying at all.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I take your referring to that God-Awful Macau fight scene. Which was completely redundant in that part of the story and packed no intensity whatsoever, to see Bond raise his fists in that awkward manner was insulting to the action scenes that have come before.

    Exactly! The way Bond raised his fists was a huge wtf? moment for me. During production when we heard there was going to be a fight in a pit in a casino! With Komodo dragons! I thought that this would be one of the most epic and intense fights if the series, after all, the premise if the fight sounds so Fleming-esque but what we got was a short, extremely disappointing fight that was played more for laughs and gags. Such a set piece was horrendously wasted.

  • I think Craig's best fight was in CR in the stairwell. That was brutal and it felt very realistic.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited March 2013 Posts: 28,694
    When exactly is this moment that everyone is complaining about where Bond raises his fists in the Macau fight?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited March 2013 Posts: 14,582
    doubleoego wrote:
    I'm bumping this as I really want to discuss Bond's fighting style for Bond 24 and look at other movies we can draw inspiration from seeing as, some people including myself thought the CQC in SF wasn't as satisfying as they were in CR and QoS.
    Last night I watched this excellent movie called 'The Raid: Redemption' (2011). It's an Indonesian film featuring Silat martial arts. All I'll say is that it has plenty of impressive, brutal hand-to-hand action that'll hit you like a knife to the knee. It also has a decent plot that keeps you interested in between the fight scenes. Both director and lead actor teamed up for another film previously in 2009 called 'Merantau'. I strongly recommend checking both of them out if you're into awesome, gritty fighting. There's a planned sequel to The Raid: Redemption called 'Berandal' (or known in the US as 'The Raid: Retaliation') that's worth keeping an eye out for.
  • Posts: 498

    Analyzing our competitors to get an advantage or "one-up" them as you put it is the same thing as showing our superiority and dominance. Aside from all that, that wasn't what I was saying at all.

    One up them means to improve what they have achieved on , What's so hard to comprehend in that my friend ? :)

    My problem is when some people engage in this close-Minded discussion.
    Where in Bond is the Best, fullstop.
  • Posts: 498
    doubleoego wrote:
    I take your referring to that God-Awful Macau fight scene. Which was completely redundant in that part of the story and packed no intensity whatsoever, to see Bond raise his fists in that awkward manner was insulting to the action scenes that have come before.

    Exactly! The way Bond raised his fists was a huge wtf? moment for me. During production when we heard there was going to be a fight in a pit in a casino! With Komodo dragons! I thought that this would be one of the most epic and intense fights if the series, after all, the premise if the fight sounds so Fleming-esque but what we got was a short, extremely disappointing fight that was played more for laughs and gags. Such a set piece was horrendously wasted.

    Exactly!
    The way the Chinese opponent lifted Bond and just layed him on the floor, I was like 'wtf'.
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 498
    I think Craig's best fight was in CR in the stairwell. That was brutal and it felt very realistic.

    Yep, That's my favourite too.
    It had everything you would want in a Bond fight especially what sold me on that fight was the sense you get of Bond frantically trying to save Vesper from that Machete wielding Macho with the beautiful tense action score in the background.

    Casino Royale had quite a number of good action scene ,
    The contrast of the nimble finesse of the parkour man , as opposed to the Brute strength of Bond played out superbly on screen.
  • Posts: 498
    When exactly is this moment that everyone is complaining about where Bond raises his fists in the Macau fight?

    Dude,
    Its the scene in the Macau Casino as soon as Bond was going to leave.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    When exactly is this moment that everyone is complaining about where Bond raises his fists in the Macau fight?

    When he stands up, after being hurled into the Komodo pit. He takes a strange 'put em up' type stance.
  • Posts: 498
    QBranch wrote:
    doubleoego wrote:
    I'm bumping this as I really want to discuss Bond's fighting style for Bond 24 and look at other movies we can draw inspiration from seeing as, some people including myself thought the CQC in SF wasn't as satisfying as they were in CR and QoS.
    Last night I watched this excellent movie called 'The Raid: Redemption' (2011). It's an Indonesian film featuring Silat martial arts. All I'll say is that it has plenty of impressive, brutal hand-to-hand action that'll hit you like a knife to the knee. It also has a decent plot that keeps you interested in between the fight scenes. Both director and lead actor teamed up for another film previously in 2009 called 'Merantau'. I strongly recommend checking both of them out if you're into awesome, gritty fighting. There's a planned sequel to The Raid: Redemption called 'Berandal' (or known in the US as 'The Raid: Retaliation') that's worth keeping an eye out for.

    I've heard so much of this,
    I think I will give it a watch !
    The only thing that has put me off watching it was this is that I always had the impression ,its just all action and no story.

    Oh well, I guess the whole point of the movie is action. nevertheless I'll give it a watch.

    Personally I a more a fan of action with class ,Something I feel Bond, Bourne, Die Hard and Taken deliver in Spades.
  • Posts: 498
    RC7 wrote:
    When exactly is this moment that everyone is complaining about where Bond raises his fists in the Macau fight?

    He takes a strange 'put em up' type stance.

    Best description so far ! :))

    manlyman.PNG
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 12,837
    The Macau fight was pretty crap. CGI dragons, no intensity or danger, two one liners in a row (felt forced), dodgy fighting stance, etc.

    Roger Moore could've made it work, the beautiful thing about his era is that you have no problem going along with the absurtity because it's all so much fun and Moore is so likeable.

    In fact it feels like it's out of a Moore movie. I think in SF it just feels jarring, it doesn't suit the movie at all.

    Anyway, I think Craigs best fight was the fight on the stairs, by far. The fight with Slate was good too and the bathroom scrap was nice and brutal.
  • Posts: 229
    The Macau fight was pretty crap. CGI dragons, no intensity or danger, two one liners in a row (felt forced), dodgy fighting stance, etc.

    Roger Moore could've made it work, the beautiful thing about his era is that you have no problem going along with the absurtity because it's all so much fun and Moore is so likeable.

    In fact it feels like it's out of a Moore movie. I think in SF it just feels jarring, it doesn't suit the movie at all.

    Anyway, I think Craigs best fight was the fight on the stairs, by far. The fight with Slate was good too and the bathroom scrap was nice and brutal.

    There were humour, dark one, in Casino Royale and QOS but people don't seem to see it, so they were crying begging for Pierce Brosnan and Roger Moore's humour to return, even among Bond's fans. So we got what we deserve. Sadly for some people like me and you.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Last night I watched this excellent movie called 'The Raid: Redemption' (2011). It's an Indonesian film featuring Silat martial arts. All I'll say is that it has plenty of impressive, brutal hand-to-hand action that'll hit you like a knife to the knee. It also has a decent plot that keeps you interested in between the fight scenes. Both director and lead actor teamed up for another film previously in 2009 called 'Merantau'. I strongly recommend checking both of them out if you're into awesome, gritty fighting. There's a planned sequel to The Raid: Redemption called 'Berandal' (or known in the US as 'The Raid: Retaliation') that's worth keeping an eye out for.

    Yeah, I saw the raid at the cinema and it was one of the best cinema experiences of my life as the whole audience were reacting to the awesome action. Needless to say, I bought it the day it came out on dvd. I also started a thread a while back on it and included some info on the sequel.

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/2639/the-raid#Item_11

    @thelivingroyale, I agree that the Macau fight felt Moore-esque and sadly I think that's what Mendes was going for but it didn't work because Craig's style is different and the action should have reflected it.

  • Posts: 498
    maxcraig wrote:
    There were humour, dark one, in Casino Royale and QOS but people don't seem to see it, so they were crying begging for Pierce Brosnan and Roger Moore's humour to return, even among Bond's fans. So we got what we deserve. Sadly for some people like me and you.

    @maxcraig
    You can add me in that list.

    Don't get me wrong the humour in Skyfall is excellent. But as a matter of personal preference I have a slight affinity towards a more darker sense of humour than the lighter sense which was injected in Skyfall.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    I really love how some people are. Because when CR and QoS was new, many, many people complained at the brutal "non Bondian" fight scenes (and everything else in those films). Like how they were imitating Bourne and so on. Now, when SF is out. People complain that the film ISN'T like a Bourne film, that the film is filled with typical Bondian moments. I mean, what?! Can't some people ever be happy?
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 12,837
    I thought most of the humour in SF was good but the Macau fight took it a step too far.
    MrBond wrote:
    I really love how some people are. Because when CR and QoS was new, many, many people complained at the brutal "non Bondian" fight scenes (and everything else in those films). Like how they were imitating Bourne and so on. Now, when SF is out. People complain that the film ISN'T like a Bourne film, that the film is filled with typical Bondian moments. I mean, what?! Can't some people ever be happy?

    The people who didn't like the brutal fight scenes aren't the same people who missed them in SF. You're lumping two different groups of people together.

    Most of the Bourne comments were due to the editing in QOS.
  • Posts: 498

    The people who didn't like the brutal fight scenes aren't the same people who missed them in SF. You're lumping two different groups of people together.

    I concur.

  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    Well look at the top of this page, someone who wanted that the Bond fights should be more like Bourne again. Something that would be considered as crazy just a year ago.
  • Posts: 498
    MrBond wrote:
    Well look at the top of this page, someone who wanted that the Bond fights should be more like Bourne again. Something that would be considered as crazy just a year ago.

    again, by a different set of people. :)

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    MrBond wrote:
    Well look at the top of this page, someone who wanted that the Bond fights should be more like Bourne again. Something that would be considered as crazy just a year ago.

    You've missed the point of @Brady's post. Bourne's fights aren't a problem, if anything, they're more than suitable in style for Bond as that sort of CQC technique is standard for any credible spy/agent/operative. The adverse issue Bond fans have, however, as @Brady expressed us the editing and to a lesser extent the shakey cam. When you can't see what's going on, it's frustrating because it's hard to appreciate but the fighting stule and technique itself is something we champion. CR delivered on this beautifully and with QoS, although they delivered on the brutality of the fights, the hack and slash editing which was a poor attempt at aping Bond wasn't largely appreciated and for good reason.
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