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There are two women that I've talked to that don't find Craig attractive. Yes, you read that right - since CR came out I've only spoken to TWO women who don't find him attractive (one was a mid-50s woman who was furious that Brosnan was let go; she thought he was the most handsome man in history, the other is a woman who only dates black men and said that Craig isn't "black enough" for her - but then neither is any other man who has ever played Bond!). Now I realize that this is anecdotal and not scientific but the huge amount of women I've spoken to says volumes about this.
The funny thing is, although some women - not all - mention Craig's body the thing that every one of them has raved about is his commanding presence or his confidence. I think that it's hard for some guys to get their heads around - they look for the most obvious reason that a guy who isn't classically handsome could be considered attractive and they think that it must be his body. But they're looking at it from a guy's point of view. Almost every guy I've met will find a girl "hot" if she's got a great body but does not have a pretty face, likewise if a woman is pretty but has a bad body they won't find her attractive. Now, even though I'm what has been called a "sensitive new age guy" I'll be the first to admit that most guys in the general population are very body obsessed when it comes to women. They then make the mistake of projecting that attitude on to women.
What I find most puzzling is the anger that some men have in response to women finding Craig attractive. There was a poster here (he quit some time ago) who was practically foaming at the mouth in his posts about how Craig's body was showcased in "homoerotic" shots (because if a guy is shown to be attractive it must be for other men - obviously women never go to films. Or if a woman is shown to be attractive is that lesboerotic?). What I suggested to him is that he should be thanking Craig until the day he dies - because he's shown ALL of us guys that with the right personality, presence, and charm we can all be considered attractive no matter what our faces look like!
I don't think this is true at all. I think most, if not all blokes can see that Dan can be attractive to women. Anyhow, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it's highly subjective. Your comments about Dan suggest you yourself are unsure whether he's that attractive because you seem to be after some form of validation. Some people will never find Dan attractive, while others will worship him. Same goes for Brozzer, Laz etc etc.
As soon as we start trying to compete over who is more attractive we're on to a loser. All we can do is give opinions, it's not possible to force someone into finding or accepting one's attractiveness. The electricity between us is what keeps the world turning.
It doesn't seem to me that all men can see that, since so many go on about "but he's not handsome" (which I think is crap btw ;) ) or that "it must be his body".
As for "validation" you think I'm after, you lost me there. Seriously? What? I'm absolutely sure of what I think, but if I wrote some drooling post I bet you wouldn't approve, either. Besides, this is a family site, right? ;) I don't know how you expect me to write or what made you think of "validation". I'm trying to understand different opinions and what they are based on, and explain my point without going over the top. I'm not trying to "convert" anyone on this or other issues, that would be stupid, but I'd like people to understand my point of view. I think "worshiping" anyone would be over the top, btw, and I certainly don't. I didn't think there was any "competition" going on, and I indeed thought I was giving my own opinions like others were, and I wasn't trying to force anyone to agree with me, nor did I see others do that.
I was merely suggesting that it could seem like you're searching for some kind of validation. I'm not implying this is the only thing you're trying to do, more that I feel you're wasting your breath because some people won't consider your points or simply don't agree. I don't think you need to justify why he's so attractive, I think it's safe to say you and others feel this way about him, for sure. There's only one who worships, I just hope she doesn't have a tattoo of his face. ;)
Wow. Bit of an overreaction. I'm saying that some people just don't want to listen, whether it's to you, me or anyone else. I'm not suggesting your points are invalid, quite the opposite.
And surely there is more to DC then just the body. There are better ones. Those, who like him, see it, others don't. No big deal. I remember a great post from ages ago, which was "I found him ugly, then I grew eyes"
And no, I don't have a tattoo of him or any other. I don't mind being seen as the worshipping one here, but I don't see the difference between me and those, who :x Dalton as part of defending him to those, who argue against him. Its the very same pattern. Someone has a disliking opinion and someone will defend.
@Tuulia - where do we differ?
As I've said, I mentioned two relatives as being in the category of those who don't find Craig attractive, this was in no way suggesting everybody feels the same way, you made that bit up I'm afraid. I'm sure most users here would rather this didn't become another nauseating exchange between ourselves, where I have to explain everything to you in painstaking detail. It's all subjective so let's leave it at that.
Maybe not a tattoo, but I definitely think you have a locket with his face inside, or maybe an apron with his torso on.
Naa, that's me who has him standing in the living room, just beside hubby's collection of guitars :D
GL you don't have an apron, do you? Maybe I just made a fool out of myself.
Your second paragraph above is particularly interesting, perceptive, and unfortunately probably true about most men being body obsessed about women. Most women aren't similarly obsessed about men's bodies, but many men apparently don't believe it. When one tries to argue that point the response is often mocking, but it's not that women don't appreciate a nice male body, too (if i's there to be admired, let's), but it's just not that important (for most).
The presence you mention is something I'd agree with. It's difficult to pinpoint what it is exactly and how it presents itself, it's not tangible or easily described, unlike body or face, and maybe that's why it complicates matters. It's there in someone for some people, and in someone else for other people. When one cannot see it, the question often becomes "what on earth does she see in him?" A good body or classically handsome face (whatever that is) is easier to point out and comprehend, I guess. The somewhat mystical, impossible-to-define thing called "presence" (maybe there's a better word, but I can't think of any) is the main thing I think.
Inner confidence is part of "presence" and it's definitely attractive and charming - of course, it's very different from over-confidence, which is arrogance/cockiness, and not actually confidence at all, but rather the opposite. Inner confidence consists of genuine humbleness, humour (including about oneself), body language (how one carries oneself), genuine appreciation and respect of others (realising it's not away from meeee), and healthy self-respect.
Mr Craig has the presence (for those who see it), and as part of it the inner confidence. I can't comment on his looks separate from those, since they aren't separate. I could comment merely on looks if he didn't have the presence, but since he does, it's all connected, and while it's obvious to me he's not "handsome" in some generic male model way or whatever, he has interesting features, and to me he is beautiful. Pierce I would glance at, and turn my attention elsewhere, Daniel I would stare at, and he would hold my attention and interest. I hope that all makes sense, somehow.
:))
:))
That's nice though, isn't it? Everybody gets equal rights to Bond, all fair. Poor Bond though, that must get exhausting...
:))
[quote="dunda"
GL you don't have an apron, do you? Maybe I just made a fool out of myself.[/quote]
apron der Abschnitt
apron der Blatteinsatz - Mokassin
apron - tank die Füllrohrschürze - Tank
apron das Laufriemchen
apron das Riemchen
apron der Schurz
apron das Siebleder
apron der Talon
apron - of an airfield das Vorfeld
?? But I would think, I don't have it. Maybe I should?
Happy you have the last laugh, RC. Wouldn't want to see you unhappy ;;) I consider you and me as something like the Odd Couple. :D Now live with that...
Oh, just minor details like I said. I don't find Sean attractive (even though I understand where people are coming from), and I don't think Roger looked great as such, though his charm naturally improved his looks from rather boring to quite nice. :P
I just threw up a little bit in my mouth :-&
I agree. It's weird that some people care more about an ultimately trivial thing like looks than acting ability or how the character of Bond is portrayed.
Exactly. She should feel happy and justified on her choice, and it would be really strange if she didn't, but she does indeed seem to appreciate all the Bond actors as far as I can tell - she has never given me reason to think otherwise.
True, it's funny how often people have certain things that they believe MUST be true, and even in the face of opposing evidence they won't change their mind. I would see this with men at the gym all the time - they do the "douchebag workout" which means just working their chests and biceps because that's what they believe that women like. No matter how many of the women there tell them it isn't true, they refuse to believe it! (According to all the women I know, they'd be better off building a perkier butt than anything else). This reminds me of when I was trying to tell coworkers (in a very blue-collar, macho industry) that women don't care about the car they drive. These guys thought about what would impress them and then projected that on to women - so when they tried to talk to a girl at a bar they would always mention a) how powerful the sports car or truck they drove was and b) how they could beat up any guy in that bar. And then when women weren't impressed with these things they'd be mystified and get angry and complain about them for the rest of the night!
Likewise, I'm always shocked at how many women think that men are turned off by strong women or women who make the first move. I can see that with insecure guys, or guys with very retrograde ideas of gender identity. But among my friends and co-workers we all LOVE women who make the first move. Yet a lot of women I mention this to refuse to believe it!
How's that Grant?
Agreed 100% as the ladies from the "girl's room" can attest to. I listen to some of my younger co-workers at lunch when they think I'm not and they don't think too much differently, sad to say. I'd say women who subscribe to these theories LFH describes must be very shallow and materialistic people. I used to encounter this as an active musician and learned to tell who genuinely liked me and who genuinely liked the ego boost they'd get by beating other women to me. I used to set up little traps to weed them out early. What these guys will get from this type of woman is exactly what they deserve for catering to one like that- used and bled dry- exactly what I did with this type back then. They could "service me" but that was about all they'd get. A real woman of character will never go for this sort of bragging and machoisms, as you've said. She may like what you can offer materially of course, but she will be far more likely to genuinely care about and maybe even love you by treating her as a person and not a possession.
Daniel is at best an average looking man playing a very handsome character. Yet so many people find him (subjectively speaking of course) rather pretty.
Daniel (if we were to compare his looks to a Bond film) is the Die Another Day of Bonds. Yes some people find it a very good film, a classic but the consensus (objectively concluded) is that it is a heap of steaming s*^t.
So many rose tinted glasses on this site when it comes to our Daniel. So very funny.
No rose tinted glasses here! When I went to watch CR I was uncertain about Craig, after the PTS I was sold on his Bond and by the time he asked Solange if she wanted to go to his place for a drink I almost shouted "I'll go!"
I for one find it funny like so many people are still in denial when it comes to Craig, but just look at how worried I am about them (:|
@SirHenryLeeChaChing and @thelordflasheart very good male perspectives, as always.