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Rank the composers

W_PPKW_PPK
edited April 2013 in Music Posts: 172
1-2. David Arnold. Scores of TND, CR and QOS were magnificient!
1-2. John Barry. Brilliant, but... hasn`t got that refined Bond feel. However, he has estabilished Bond music. If not him, 007 were surrounded by different one!
3. George Martin. Funky. I liked reprising James Bond Theme motif.
4. Eric Serra. The music suits the darkness of the film.
5. Marvin Hamlisch. Barry`s style with some disco.
6. Bill Conti. Too much disco.

7. Michael Kaman. It would be better for 1990s American action film, not for Dalton.






8. Thomas Newman. The worst Bond composer. Skyfall soundtrack lacks Bondism. It sounds so generic and bluntly. I hope, that DA will be back!
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Comments

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited April 2013 Posts: 24,187
    W_PPK wrote:
    1. David Arnold. Scores of TND, CR and QOS were magnificient!
    2. John Barry. Brilliant, but... hasn`t got that refined Bond feel.

    I think you might feel inclined to hire protection, @W_PPK. :P

    I won't put a price on your head but will at least post why I feel you are so wrong.

    1) Refined. If John Barry isn't refined in your opinion, how could you possibly put Arnold above him? If John Barry is shining marble, Arnold is ugly wood. In several tracks it's obvious that Arnold couldn't control his orchestras. Some notes are quite frankly headache inducing. When all the trumpets and other brass instruments give it their fullest, things just run amok and music turns to chaos. Arnold can be good at times but most of his scores show how hard he struggles to maintain consistency and coherence in his music. There's a very artificial quality to some of his compositions and even more so, they often lack originality. Some of Arnold's scores suffer severely from repetition. His little DAD experiment, recording music backwards and then playing it normal again, supposedly to create the ultimate effect - well - it didn't really turn out all that great, did it.

    2) John Barry is a god. Every single one of his Bond scores brought their own flavour to the game. Even the ones for which he lacked a lot of time, like TMWTGG, are special in their own right. Also, Barry's scores feel more natural. The music lives its own story, infused as it is with all those subtle variations of the theme song cues and all sorts of jazzy and other playfulnesses. He mastered his orchestra like only a mere few composers ever could and his compositions stand out as ground breaking, and righteously so. John Barry throws a large shadow on all other Bond composers and especially on Arnold who, unlike the rest, so desperately wanted to be like Barry and failed perhaps even more so because of that.

    To conclude things, IMO the Bond films Barry scored benefited from his music: his scores actually made them better. The Arnold scored films are only modestly aided by the music and in some instances they would even have benefited from its absence. Also, I seriously doubt that, had Barry still been active in Bond scoring today, Mendes would have replaced him, no matter how close a working relationship he entertains with Newman. I've always hummed Barry tunes but I've never caught myself humming any of the Arnold's.

    So, here's my list:

    1) Barry






    [insert infinity here]







    2) Newman, Kamen, Conti



    3) Serra, Bacharach
    4) Arnold, Martin, Hamlish, Norman



    5) Legrand








  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    1. Barry
    2. Everybody else but Arnold
    3. Arnold
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited July 2013 Posts: 8,218
    1. Barry
    2. Arnold
    3. Martin
    4. Newman
    5. Kamen
    6. Serra
    7. Hamlisch
    8. Conti
  • Matt_HelmMatt_Helm
    Posts: 908
    W_PPK wrote:
    1. David Arnold. Scores of TND, CR and QOS were magnificient!
    2. John Barry. Brilliant, but... hasn`t got that refined Bond feel.
    3. George Martin. Funky. I liked reprising James Bond Theme motif.
    4. Eric Serra. The music suits the darkness of the film.
    5. Marvin Hamlisch. Barry`s style with some disco.
    6. Bill Conti. Too much disco.

    7. Michael Kaman. It would be better for 1990s American action film, not for Dalton.






    8. Thomas Newman. The worst Bond composer. Skyfall soundtrack lacks Bondism. It sounds so generic and bluntly. I hope, that DA will be back!


    I read your Point 2 at 14:30 and i am still coughing! Wow!
  • Matt_HelmMatt_Helm
    Posts: 908
    DarthDimi wrote:
    W_PPK wrote:
    1. David Arnold. Scores of TND, CR and QOS were magnificient!
    2. John Barry. Brilliant, but... hasn`t got that refined Bond feel.

    I think you might feel inclined to hire protection, @W_PPK. :P

    I won't put a price on your head but will at least post why I feel you are so wrong.

    1) Refined. If John Barry isn't refined in your opinion, how could you possibly put Arnold above him? If John Barry is shining marble, Arnold is ugly wood. In several tracks it's obvious that Arnold couldn't control his orchestras. Some notes are quite frankly headache inducing. When all the trumpets and other brass instruments give it their fullest, things just run amok and music turns to chaos. Arnold can be good at times but most of his scores show how hard he struggles to maintain consistency and coherence in his music. There's a very artificial quality to some of his compositions and even more so, they often lack originality. Some of Arnold's scores suffer severely from repetition. His little DAD experiment, recording music backwards and then playing it normal again, supposedly to create the ultimate effect - well - it didn't really turn out all that great, did it.

    2) John Barry is a god. Every single one of his Bond scores brought their own flavour to the game. Even the ones for which he lacked a lot of time, like TMWTGG, are special in their own right. Also, Barry's scores feel more natural. The music lives its own story, infused as it is with all those subtle variations of the theme song cues and all sorts of jazzy and other playfulnesses. He mastered his orchestra like only a mere few composers ever could and his compositions stand out as ground breaking, and righteously so. John Barry throws a large shadow on all other Bond composers and especially on Arnold who, unlike the rest, so desperately wanted to be like Barry and failed perhaps even more so because of that.

    To conclude things, IMO the Bond films Barry scored benefited from his music: his scores actually made them better. The Arnold scored films are only modestly aided by the music and in some instances they would even have benefited from its absence. Also, I seriously doubt that, had Barry still been active in Bond scoring today, Mendes would have replaced him, no matter how close a working relationship he entertains with Newman. I've always hummed Barry tunes but I've never caught myself humming any of the Arnold's.

    So, here's my list:

    1) Barry






    [insert infinity here]


    Couldn't have said it better!!!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DarthDimi wrote:
    W_PPK wrote:
    1. David Arnold. Scores of TND, CR and QOS were magnificient!
    2. John Barry. Brilliant, but... hasn`t got that refined Bond feel.

    I think you might feel inclined to hire protection, @W_PPK. :P

    I won't put a price on your head but will at least post why I feel you are so wrong.

    1) Refined. If John Barry isn't refined in your opinion, how could you possibly put Arnold above him? If John Barry is shining marble, Arnold is ugly wood. In several tracks it's obvious that Arnold couldn't control his orchestras. Some notes are quite frankly headache inducing. When all the trumpets and other brass instruments give it their fullest, things just run amok and music turns to chaos. Arnold can be good at times but most of his scores show how hard he struggles to maintain consistency and coherence in his music. There's a very artificial quality to some of his compositions and even more so, they often lack originality. Some of Arnold's scores suffer severely from repetition. His little DAD experiment, recording music backwards and then playing it normal again, supposedly to create the ultimate effect - well - it didn't really turn out all that great, did it.

    2) John Barry is a god. Every single one of his Bond scores brought their own flavour to the game. Even the ones for which he lacked a lot of time, like TMWTGG, are special in their own right. Also, Barry's scores feel more natural. The music lives its own story, infused as it is with all those subtle variations of the theme song cues and all sorts of jazzy and other playfulnesses. He mastered his orchestra like only a mere few composers ever could and his compositions stand out as ground breaking, and righteously so. John Barry throws a large shadow on all other Bond composers and especially on Arnold who, unlike the rest, so desperately wanted to be like Barry and failed perhaps even more so because of that.

    To conclude things, IMO the Bond films Barry scored benefited from his music: his scores actually made them better. The Arnold scored films are only modestly aided by the music and in some instances they would even have benefited from its absence. Also, I seriously doubt that, had Barry still been active in Bond scoring today, Mendes would have replaced him, no matter how close a working relationship he entertains with Newman. I've always hummed Barry tunes but I've never caught myself humming any of the Arnold's.

    I can feel the passion for John Barry in your very words, @Dimi. I don't know how Barry can lack that "refined Bond feel" when he was the one to create it with his music in the first place!

    I will make it my mission to listen to a lot more Barry in the coming months, as I want to give his musical legacy the appreciation it deserves.

    musique32.gif
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    1. Barry
    2. Martin
    3. Newman
    4. Conti
    5. Serra
    6. Kamen
    7. Arnold
    8. Norman
    9. Hamlisch
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    John Barry: The King of all Bond Music.

    David Arnold: The Tribute Band (which isn't a bad thing)

    George Martin: The Soul Man. (Gotta love LALD! :-bd)

    Michael Kamen: The Eighty's Man. (He brought in a touch of John Barry and Die Hard and made a pretty good score.)

    Eric Serra: The One Hit Wonder. (Seriously, I think GE's soundtrack was innovative for 95.)

    Thomas Newman: Lacks Passion. (Too Zimmerish and needed Arnold's passion. Seriously I can't believe SF recycled CR's Score.)

    Bill Conti: Disco the right way. (I loved it!)

    Hamlisch: Disco the wrong way. (Some good tracks but the Beejee's disco riffs are not good)

    Norman: Good Bond theme but bad score. (Sometimes it's a struggle to watch Dr. No because of Norman's score which isn't good at all.)
  • TheBondFanTheBondFan
    edited April 2013 Posts: 822
    1. Barry, Newman tied
    2. Arnold
    3. Everyone else but Serra








    4. Serra
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Is this yet another troll?

    I'm getting pretty tired of coming on here at the moment as it seems every post is just a feeble attempt to try and get a rise out of genuine Bond fans rather than there being any actual intelligent debate.
  • TheBondFanTheBondFan
    Posts: 822
    Me?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Is this yet another troll?

    I'm getting pretty tired of coming on here at the moment as it seems every post is just a feeble attempt to try and get a rise out of genuine Bond fans rather than there being any actual intelligent debate.

    Just because someone doesn't rate Barry as first doesn't make them a troll.
  • W_PPKW_PPK
    Posts: 172
    DarthDimi wrote:
    W_PPK wrote:
    1. David Arnold. Scores of TND, CR and QOS were magnificient!
    2. John Barry. Brilliant, but... hasn`t got that refined Bond feel.

    I think you might feel inclined to hire protection, @W_PPK. :P

    I won't put a price on your head but will at least post why I feel you are so wrong.

    1) Refined. If John Barry isn't refined in your opinion, how could you possibly put Arnold above him? If John Barry is shining marble, Arnold is ugly wood. In several tracks it's obvious that Arnold couldn't control his orchestras. Some notes are quite frankly headache inducing. When all the trumpets and other brass instruments give it their fullest, things just run amok and music turns to chaos. Arnold can be good at times but most of his scores show how hard he struggles to maintain consistency and coherence in his music. There's a very artificial quality to some of his compositions and even more so, they often lack originality. Some of Arnold's scores suffer severely from repetition. His little DAD experiment, recording music backwards and then playing it normal again, supposedly to create the ultimate effect - well - it didn't really turn out all that great, did it.

    2) John Barry is a god. Every single one of his Bond scores brought their own flavour to the game. Even the ones for which he lacked a lot of time, like TMWTGG, are special in their own right. Also, Barry's scores feel more natural. The music lives its own story, infused as it is with all those subtle variations of the theme song cues and all sorts of jazzy and other playfulnesses. He mastered his orchestra like only a mere few composers ever could and his compositions stand out as ground breaking, and righteously so. John Barry throws a large shadow on all other Bond composers and especially on Arnold who, unlike the rest, so desperately wanted to be like Barry and failed perhaps even more so because of that.

    To conclude things, IMO the Bond films Barry scored benefited from his music: his scores actually made them better. The Arnold scored films are only modestly aided by the music and in some instances they would even have benefited from its absence. Also, I seriously doubt that, had Barry still been active in Bond scoring today, Mendes would have replaced him, no matter how close a working relationship he entertains with Newman. I've always hummed Barry tunes but I've never caught myself humming any of the Arnold's.
    You have passion for Barry, I have for Arnold.
    By the way, I have recently listened to TLD soundtrack, so I have fixed the list. Barry is tied with Arnold!
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    1. Barry
    2. Kamen
    3. Arnold
    4. Conti
    5. Martin
    6. Hamlisch
    7. Serra
    8. Newman


  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    W_PPK wrote:
    You have passion for Barry, I have for Arnold.

    So in a nutshell, I have a passion for beluga caviar, you for fish sticks? :D

  • nobodydoesitbetternobodydoesitbetter
    Posts: 1,021
    1 - Barry (OHMSS the best Barry Score)
    2 - Arnold (TND the best Arnold Score)
    3- Newman - (after multiple SKYFALL viewings the score has won me over)
    4 - Martin
    5 - Kamen
    6 - Hamlisch / Conti - a tie (sometimes too disco - but you have to love that BOND77suite from Hamlisch)










    8 - Serra (trash)
  • bondbat007bondbat007
    Posts: 1,407
    Barry-Connery/Lazenby era
    Barry-Dalton
    Arnold-Hard to believe it's the same composer from TND doing QOS. But all scores are great!
    Barry-Moore films
    Kamen- VERY underrated score
    Newman
    Hamlisch
    Conti
    Norman
    Serra
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    DarthDimi wrote:
    W_PPK wrote:
    You have passion for Barry, I have for Arnold.

    So in a nutshell, I have a passion for beluga caviar, you for fish sticks? :D

    You have a passion for sashimi, he for squid tempura.

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Is this yet another troll?

    I'm getting pretty tired of coming on here at the moment as it seems every post is just a feeble attempt to try and get a rise out of genuine Bond fans rather than there being any actual intelligent debate.

    Just because someone doesn't rate Barry as first doesn't make them a troll.

    True. Just utterly clueless.
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    001 John Barry
    002 David Arnold
    003 George Martin
    004 Thomas Newman
    005 Eric Serra
    006 Marvin Hamlich
    007 Michael Kamen
    008 Bill Conti
    009 Monty Norman
  • Qba007Qba007
    Posts: 87
    John Barry is definitely the best and it doesn't make sense putting Him to this ranking.

    1. David Arnold
    2. Thomas Newman
    3. George Martin
    4. Bill Conti
    5. Marvin Hamlich
    6. Eric Serra
    7. Monty Norman
    8. Michael Kamen
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    1) Barry
    2) Arnold
    3) Martin
    4) Kamen
    5) Newman
    6) Norman
    7) Conti
    8) Serra
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    1: John Barry. In my opinion, the greatest film composer of all time. The OHMSS theme is my favourite piece of music ever put in a film, and I could easily say that OHMSS, TB, or TLD (and I'm probably forgetting one or two more including his non-Bond stuff) has my favourite score of any film ever. Head and shoulders above any of the others, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot.
    2: David Arnold. For all of his flaws, I have two words: Casino. Royale. You can say what you want about his Brosnan scores, but there's not a bad thing to be said about Casino Royale's score. Vesper's death would have far less of an emotional impact on me without the music that accompanies the scene.
    3: Eric Serra. Severely underrated, unfairly criticized. Yes, there are moments in the GoldenEye score that are uncomfortable, but I don't think anyone in their right mind will argue with the GoldenEye Overture, which is one of the best pieces of score in any Bond film ever. I like the Severnaya Overture as well, and overall there isn't anything so out of place that it drew me away from the movie. The only piece that I outright despise on the score is whatever accompanied the end credits. I think people just like to hate Serra.
    4: Marvin Hamlisch. The funk is a guilty pleasure of mine, and I find it suits the time period and feel of TSWLM quite well. The rest of the score is brilliant, from the gunbarrel to the end credits. I particularly like that little burst of psychedelia that is used as the Lotus goes underwater.
    5: George Martin. I like the leitmotifs he uses for the LALD theme, and he really did do a good job. Especially like the gunbarrel.
    6: Michael Kamen. Very generic, late 80s score, and very much just a rehashing of what he did for Die Hard and Lethal Weapon. However, I really enjoy that stuff, so the only reason he's not ranked higher is because his score, at times, is more generic than Bondlike. Kamen was a genius, though, brilliant composer and musician. I highly encourage people check out his other work.
    7: Thomas Newman. I really, really, really love the Skyfall score. Honestly. That bit where M dies still rings in my head months later. But it doesn't feel like a Bond score until the end. It really made Skyfall seem like yet another "Bond isn't Bond yet, but he is at the end of this one" film when the Bond theme wasn't played until the very end. And that concept of "Bond becoming Bond" got stale by QoS.
    8: Bill Conti. There are bits of this score that are really great. Honestly, when the submarine is attacked is a great piece of music. The gunbarrel was different, but was fun, and memorable, and it was great too. But then 95% of the rest of the movie was disco...
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    1: John Barry. In my opinion, the greatest film composer of all time. The OHMSS theme is my favourite piece of music ever put in a film, and I could easily say that OHMSS, TB, or TLD (and I'm probably forgetting one or two more including his non-Bond stuff) has my favourite score of any film ever. Head and shoulders above any of the others, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot.
    2: David Arnold. For all of his flaws, I have two words: Casino. Royale. You can say what you want about his Brosnan scores, but there's not a bad thing to be said about Casino Royale's score. Vesper's death would have far less of an emotional impact on me without the music that accompanies the scene.
    3: Eric Serra. Severely underrated, unfairly criticized. Yes, there are moments in the GoldenEye score that are uncomfortable, but I don't think anyone in their right mind will argue with the GoldenEye Overture, which is one of the best pieces of score in any Bond film ever. I like the Severnaya Overture as well, and overall there isn't anything so out of place that it drew me away from the movie. The only piece that I outright despise on the score is whatever accompanied the end credits. I think people just like to hate Serra.
    4: Marvin Hamlisch. The funk is a guilty pleasure of mine, and I find it suits the time period and feel of TSWLM quite well. The rest of the score is brilliant, from the gunbarrel to the end credits. I particularly like that little burst of psychedelia that is used as the Lotus goes underwater.
    5: George Martin. I like the leitmotifs he uses for the LALD theme, and he really did do a good job. Especially like the gunbarrel.
    6: Michael Kamen. Very generic, late 80s score, and very much just a rehashing of what he did for Die Hard and Lethal Weapon. However, I really enjoy that stuff, so the only reason he's not ranked higher is because his score, at times, is more generic than Bondlike. Kamen was a genius, though, brilliant composer and musician. I highly encourage people check out his other work.
    7: Thomas Newman. I really, really, really love the Skyfall score. Honestly. That bit where M dies still rings in my head months later. But it doesn't feel like a Bond score until the end. It really made Skyfall seem like yet another "Bond isn't Bond yet, but he is at the end of this one" film when the Bond theme wasn't played until the very end. And that concept of "Bond becoming Bond" got stale by QoS.
    8: Bill Conti. There are bits of this score that are really great. Honestly, when the submarine is attacked is a great piece of music. The gunbarrel was different, but was fun, and memorable, and it was great too. But then 95% of the rest of the movie was disco...

    I know I should be giving reasons why this is so wrong. And I will when I get some time to post my views, meanwhile tears of laughter and fatherly/household duties will keep me from that for the moment

    =))
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    edited July 2013 Posts: 2,402
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    I know I should be giving reasons why this is so wrong. And I will when I get some time to post my views, meanwhile tears of laughter and fatherly/household duties will keep me from that for the moment

    Please do. Just because a Bond score is different, doesn't make it bad. Serra bashing is the biggest bandwagon in this entire fanbase, inside and outside of MI6C.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    I know I should be giving reasons why this is so wrong. And I will when I get some time to post my views, meanwhile tears of laughter and fatherly/household duties will keep me from that for the moment

    =))

    You can disagree with people without taking the piss and laughing at them y'know. Just a thought.
  • JawsIsAliveJawsIsAlive
    Posts: 233
    I really don't understand people who would put Arnold above Newman. You guys are delusional.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    JawsIsAlive wrote:
    I really don't understand people who would put Arnold above Newman. You guys are delusional.

    Again. Casino Royale's score. I don't have anything against Newman and yes, I would argue he's probably the better composer of the two, but Arnold made a better Bond score. Get the difference?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    1- Barry. What Williams is to Indy Barry is to Bond.
    2- Arnold. The respect he shows for Barry's work is both unparalleled and creative.
    3- Martin. Original yet somehow very Bondian, and he worked the theme of the song into the score like Barry did.
    4- Kamen. A bonafide musical genius, so his "I'm busy, but the money's good so here's a score" music for Bond is still better than what most could come up with on their most intense days.
    5- Serra. Different, but that's not always a bad thing. Somewhat experimental; not all of it worked perfectly. But highly underrated IMO. Not bad at all, just not what we were used to.
    6- Newman. Good standard orchestral sound, some great melodic moments. Solid if unmemorable in parts.
    7- Hamlish. A bit too Seventies, but given the subject matter one cannot blame him, and he delivered where it really mattered.
    8- Norman. Very 50's, very loud & dramatic, kind of OTT, but an expected thriller score in that era.
    9- Conti. Rocky's music was great & made Conti famous. Every other score he ever did for a non-Rocky movie was, well... like this. Far from bad, but equally far from memorable aside from the disco beat.


  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    edited July 2013 Posts: 2,402
    I'd just like to comment on the fact that, when defending Serra, I made my case in a paragraph, made my argument, and all I got back from someone was "You're a joke, I'm going to laugh at you." Is it wrong that it's bothering me? I try to have constructive discussions on here, anyone who's spoken with me knows that, so for that to be someone's response is a bit hurtful. Please try to keep that in mind for future, not just with me, but with everyone on the forum. Thank you to thelivingroyale for defending me there.

    Back on topic, chrisisall, I like your rankings, though I don't think Norman merits a spot in the rankings. Though that's just me, and most other people have excluded him for similar reasons. Also, I'm reconsidering where I put Kamen, I really adore his work and I'm gonna have to give the LTK score another listen.
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