The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • Posts: 5,634
    Can't really add anymore to the above. Johnathan Pryce is an actor of caliber but was wasted in Tomorrow Never Dies as the insipid, and mundane Carver. About as ridiculous a plot as Diamonds are Forever, and just as dull or lifeless. Carver wants to cause world chaos in order to make some news items for his company. It does appear a bit far fetched whichever way you look at it
  • AgentJamesBond007AgentJamesBond007 Vesper’s grave
    Posts: 2,634
    I agree that Carver was a contemporary villain for '97 as a media tycoon but he wasn't plausible. He plans on creating WWIII with the help of a stealth boat? Really?
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    edited April 2013 Posts: 15,169
    Hi guys not sure if this is the right place but if not mods please move it?

    Can we debate whether Bond will ever travel thru time?

    No



    As to the actual debate at present, I think the character of Carver is quite plausible. The media mogul who has much more control than they probably should is something that exists very much in the modern world. The idea for his villainous scheme is not at all plausible. Infact it wasn't even after I'd seen the film that the plotholes were apparent. It was whilst watching the film.
  • Posts: 101
    Agreed.
    One thing I don't get.
    Stamper videotapes himself shooting the sailors.
    Then this footage is broadcast?
    Did viewers not raise questions like "Who is filming that? Is it Carver?"
    Tomorrow Never Dies?
    Brilliant AND bogus.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,169
    Couple of things.
    1. This is not what we are debating.
    2. Stamper films himself murdering the sailors for Carver only. No-one else sees it.
    That would be as stupid as a member continually returning only to be banned again.
  • Posts: 101
    Why would Carver want footage of sailors dying for personal use?
    Also: chill out on the rules.
    Stop closing threads just because some of the content overlaps with stuff contained in 300-page threads that nobody wants to browse.
    This is a place of fun.
    If you can point me to another thread where we DEBATE the plot of TND, which is by the way THE CURRENT TOPIC OF DEBATE IN A JAMES BOND DEBATE THREAD, then be my guest.
    As Elegant Carver might say, "Pathetic"
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles
    Posts: 864
    chill out on the rules...stop closing threads just because some of the content overlaps with stuff contained in 300-page threads that nobody wants to browse.
    This is a place of fun.

    The rules are there to make the site more enjoyable for everyone and the moderators do our best to enforce them for the benefit of everyone.

    I agree the forum should be a place of fun, but having a go at the mods - who give up their spare time voluntarily to make the forum a better place - isn't the way to make it fun.
    As Elegant Carver might say, "Pathetic"

    The admins created this place in their own time and at their own expense, for fans to have a place to discuss Bond. The moderators work hard to keep the place running smoothly. If you think that's pathetic, you're welcome to make your opinions elsewhere.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited April 2013 Posts: 24,256
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 202</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Timothy Dalton could have done not only GoldenEye, but ALL of Brosnan's movies.</b></font>
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    He could have, six films is doable but maybe not by the time Brosnan left. 15 years in total and 56 years old, perhaps.
  • Posts: 4,813
    Thesis 202-
    I wish I could go back in time and make this happen! Dalton's presence would have made GE, TND & TWINE great movies- TWINE especially needed an actor like him.
    The only thing is, with his style I doubt DAD would have been remotely recognizable-- with Dalton being 55 or 6 by then I'm sure we would have had a more FRWL/ FYEO spy thriller, without so much of a focus on crazy action (which is AWESOME)
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 12,837
    Could have? Definetly.

    But would I want him too? Hmm. As much as I love Dalton I do quite like Brosnan. I think a better alternative is this.

    Moore does OP in 1981 then retires. Dalton deubts in 1983 with FYEO (switched the films round on purpose because OP with Moore is brilliant), then does an improved version of AVTAK, then TLD and LTK, then carries on into the early 90s with movies in 91 and 93, then he does Goldeneye and retires after that.

    Brosnan debuts with an improved version of TND, then does TWINE, then an improved version of DAD then leaves with after an additional film in 2004.

    That way everybody wins! Except the big Moore fanatics but even they seem to accept he was too old by the end.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 202</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Timothy Dalton could have done not only GoldenEye, but ALL of Brosnan's movies.</b></font>

    I don't think so. Yes, in time he could've done so, allthough 56 is mightily old for Bond, and I don't think Timothy aged well as Bond (he has more of an old-professor-look then rough-but-handsome outdoor type). But the thing is, I think he would've gotten bored after about four films. So in that sense he'd have quit anyway, I think.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Absolutely. We know he had the talent to back it up (hell, he still does), but he also had the physicality:

    Here he is in 1994:
    scarlettcrop1.jpg

    1997:
    inf01.jpg

    informant11.jpg

    the-informant-1.jpeg

    1999:
    REC-5388.JPG

    And 2001:
    l.jpg

    I definitely think he had the ability to give us four more Bond films, and it is such a shame we didn't get to see it. The biggest missed opportunity in the series this side of George in DAF for me.
  • Posts: 57
    Absolutely. We know he had the talent to back it up (hell, he still does), but he also had the physicality:

    Here he is in 1994:
    scarlettcrop1.jpg

    1997:
    inf01.jpg

    informant11.jpg

    the-informant-1.jpeg

    1999:
    REC-5388.JPG

    And 2001:
    l.jpg

    I definitely think he had the ability to give us four more Bond films, and it is such a shame we didn't get to see it. The biggest missed opportunity in the series this side of George in DAF for me.

    Wow what a physique !! Wish I had that body at his age.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited April 2013 Posts: 13,999
    I think he could have, but I don't think he would have wanted to. It's not so much the quality of the films, but the length of time in the role. Even with the 6 year gap, that's still 6 films, and I don't see Dalton wanting to stay for more than 4 films. But yes, I think Dalton could have stayed on until 2000, and I guess at a push, 2002.
  • Posts: 7,653
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 202</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Timothy Dalton could have done not only GoldenEye, but ALL of Brosnan's movies.</b></font>

    I am of the opinion that Brosnan should have done all of Daltons movies as well, it would have saved of the Dalton disaster.

  • Posts: 4,813
    SaintMark wrote:
    I am of the opinion that Brosnan should have done all of Daltons movies as well, it would have saved of the Dalton disaster.
    14736.gif
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited April 2013 Posts: 28,694
    SaintMark wrote:

    I am of the opinion that Brosnan should have done all of Daltons movies as well, it would have saved of the Dalton disaster.
    Yes, what a disaster it was to have Bond being played the way he should have been again instead of the parody he was for over a decade previously. What were EON thinking?! :|
  • Posts: 1,407
    If he had come back for Goldeneye, I believe he would have done one more after that. It would have been foolish to recast him after Goldeneye (assuming it was as a success as with Brosnan) but he wouldn't of done more than two more. Not because he couldn't, but because it would be his choice
  • Posts: 7,653
    Yes, what a disaster it was to have Bond being played the way he should have been again instead of the parody he was for over a decade previously. What were EON thinking?! :|

    Somehow I think PB would have gotten his more dark approuch towards 007 instead of the scripts he did get. As the 4th Protocol has shown before PB did have a darkness in him that could have been exploited, that combined with a Mooreish charm and the ability to be funny when needed.

    And EON was right if the producer of Remington Steele had not been such a bunch of moneygrabbing numbnuts we would never have spoken about Tim Dalton. Unless he would have played a baddie in 007 franchise.

    EON has had some succes in chosing the right actor 5 times out of 6 imho, TD does not belong to the succesfull versions.

  • AgentJamesBond007AgentJamesBond007 Vesper’s grave
    Posts: 2,634
    Thesis 202: Agree

    I loved Dalton's take on Bond. Sir Sean, Sir Roger, Pierce, and Daniel had perfected their take on the role of Bond at their third film and I believe that if he continued, he would've been finally accepted by the public as the James Bond of the Nineties with his third. I would've loved to see the most true take on Fleming's Bond continue his work on the screen. I disagree that the posters above, when they say that Tim wasn't a successful Bond because he was successful in bringing the literary Bond on screen. The main reason of LTK not doing well in the box office was the result of horrible marketing and a last minute title change.
  • Posts: 5,634
    No, It wouldn't have been suitable

    Dalton was inappropriate, in that I merely feel he was too old for the part by the time of Goldeneye. And even if that had occured, another three of the Brosnan releases ?

    No, there's little chance it would of worked. It's a real pity that Dalton only got to do the two releases, but the ideal time, if not for the legal disputes, would of been in the early 1990s. Just insist 1995 would of been a little too ahead in time and as for going up to 2002, just not happy about that. Brosnan was far from the best Bond we ever saw, but feel he was a very good choice to take over in 1995. Just feel Tim's time was all but up by that stage
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Considering that he retired in 1994, I really don't think that Dalton would have wanted to stay in the role all the way to 2002. Nor do I think the public would have wanted him to be Bond that long either. He could have done it, sure, but it's just not realistic.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Agree, assuming they were being released every 2 years?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 203</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>FYEO's climax was too down-to-Earth, even for a more 'serious' Bond film.</b></font>
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 203</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>FYEO's climax was too down-to-Earth, even for a more 'serious' Bond film.</b></font>

    I'm going to agree. It was really padded out and wasn't very climatic or satisfying, in terms of the Villains death.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Disagree. I love the whole movie, including the ending. It never felt too "down" for me actually.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I'd also have to disagree. It was a great change of pace coming off the heels of TSWLM and MR.
  • Mostly agree. The rock climbing sequence was tense, but the fight in the monastery and Kristatos' death were a complete letdown. Gogol's appearance was, admittedly, a nice touch.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Disagree - FYEO is one of the better spy-movies of the franchise and the ending was just great.
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