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We all want harmony harmony, but to regain this harmony, we have this discussion and to watch it through tainted glasses isn't the way. What we have right now, is not working.
And we have exercised, that the 3 warning system DOESN'T lead to a fast ban.
@royale - just my personal opinion, swearing isn't trolling. Its just bad behaviour and as such, should be treated with a nice slap on the cheeks and that's it.
I saw YOU complaining not long ago - so why is this your position now?
But I have had my saying and leave it to you now. Do with it whatever...
Only a caution for minor things, yellow cards for a more serious fault, red for accumulation of yellows or for a very severe fault meaning banning.
That's how I feel too.
Actually that's a good idea imo.
What do you mean?
I am worried for him as well. Who would think that a Bond site would be seen as a place dangerous to a corrupt young mind because of what one idiot posts? Unthinkable.
I mean I want proof. There is no 'flip flopping' going on.
I appreciate that the mods are doing their best to deal with these imbeciles but it seems the likes of Happiestinthesaddle, Samainsy and Judi-whatever have given themselves more than enough rope to hang themselves yet day after day they are allowed to carry on posting which for the rest of us is rather dispiriting and I am another member who feels like leaving as there seems to be nothing resembling intelligent discussion going on anymore merely inanity.
However as a believer in free speech I feel we should be careful in demanding the Mods come down harder as the fact is it can be difficult to discern immediately who is a troll and who is just plain thick or uninteresting but nonetheless a genuine fan.
If we were to start banning left, right and centre then people like Balje who is merely an eccentric or people like myself who make constructive posts but also enjoy provoking and (yes I admit it) offending from time to time would also risk a ban and if we go down that road then where do we end up?
Although the current system may be flawed, it is difficult to come up with a better one that weeds out wrongdoers more quickly but does not on occasion also run the risk of also condemning the innocent.
Until someone can conceive of a better method IFM is all we have I'm afraid.
:(( You better come back soon, though. If it wasn't for people like you this place wouldn't be worth hanging around in.
I was just thinking a while ago that if this site had been under a bad troll attack when I first checked it out I never would have wanted to join. I would have taken a look around, and left right away. I deemed what I saw on my initial visit worthwhile, though, and so stayed, and I have no intention of giving up now. Maybe part of the problem now is, as suggested earlier, that there's so little actual news and while no doubt something is happening we don't know about it, and so trolls get on people's nerves more and maybe get more undeserved attention as well. There are a couple of new user names around now with posts that are just totally idiotic. While they aren't exactly offensive, it's obvious they're troll accounts. If one sees a mod addressing them in a reasonable manner as if they deserved it one doesn't feel there's any point in flagging, either. It gets tiring, though. At the moment I'm suspicious and vary of any new posters and basically consider them trolls until proven otherwise, which of course is unfortunate. And all the while the obvious trolls keep posting. Naturally that decreases one's interest in reading or taking part, so I get where @thelordflasheart is coming from. I'll be getting a lot busier soon, so I don't expect to be around much, either.
Count me in on this. Again, me and GL rarely see eye to eye, but things have gone right down the faecal pan recently. At least our arguments were amusing GL. To second Wizard, it's difficult, but I find myself reading threads where it is entirely apparent someone is taking the piss and yet they are allowed to continue. I've delivered my fair share of swearing, but there seems to be an influx of, excuse my French, complete dickheads. They should be booted ASAP. If they're genuinely interested in contributing they'll soon sort themselves out.
For the past two hours I have been browsing through some lists of posts from 'certain' members, often mentioned in posts above, and to be frank, I fail to find the alleged weapons of mass destruction. Posts were previously deleted when needed. Please understand that I've been awake since 5:15 this morning and its nearing 1:00 (night-time!) where I live. So if I missed something, forgive me and kindly do flag it.
@RC7, trust me, they weren't amusing to everybody. The number of flags we had to work through each time the two of you got it on, seriously peaked from time to time. I'm sure you'll find this statement of yours, if you'd care to give it a second thought, a regrettable one. There have been times when several members, though perhaps less publicly, wondered why we allowed this constant bickering between the two of you... And yet our patience and goodwill showed few limitations then. I'm sure you are grateful of that in hindsight. Rather pretentious to claim that your arguments were somehow more amusing and thus, I suppose, more acceptable than others. It's like saying that certain cars have more right to break the traffic laws because at least they are better looking. If that makes any sense. Selective justice doesn't work. Some flag when a certain member double posts. Fine. All I need to do is scroll this page up to find... double posts. Now what? Ban?
I'm glad we come to terms on that: it's difficult. You're looking at the largest Bond fan community on the Internet, and one which values some level of freedom. The latter implies that there's more or less open access to the community. With millions of people out there having access to the Internet, one can only expect a certain number of potential threats - nobody denies that, least of all myself. Even if we were somehow able to keep those out, what's left is still a complicated social structure, a mixture of people from all over the world with different ages, tastes, cultural background, level of education, ... who drop by to debate stuff. So naturally things can get heated up fairly quickly. Some may say that a certain type of arguing is less obnoxious than moronic trolling but that's highly subjective. The stubbornness and persistence that had us close down several SF related threads a few months ago didn't necessarily come from banned trolls. The not-at-all-amusing invasion of Margaret Thatcher attacks in a thread where one shows respect to those who passed away, leading even to requests for a separate Margaret Thatcher's politics thread, didn't necessarily come from our trolls. And where moronic trolls are easy to ignore, intelligently phrased but highly self-indulgent and sometimes dangerously spiteful remarks, permeating threads like a persistent virus despite our pleas to quit the quarrelling after X amount of pages, are far less easy to ignore for they get thrown in our faces all the time. And yet, only the moronic trolls were banned around SF's release, and we showed patience and goodwill towards many others. Why? Because this isn't a brutal dictatorship...
... but neither is it some kind of strangely hyperdemocratic regime where the powers-that-be should succumb to any sudden angry mob outbursts. If we did, some of the posts in this thread wouldn't have been made. I would like you to take that into consideration. Some of the very same people who now openly flirt with each other in agreement that our system is dysfunctional, would not even a month ago have feasted on the other's ban.
Since we filter the garbage, my fellow mods and myself are very much aware of the tensions that have risen this past week. Again though, it's difficult. It's difficult when some point a finger and go: obviously so-and-so is actually buttons or whatever, when we have no indication of that each time we hold so-and-so's flagged posts under the looking glass. Yet the suspicions are openly verbalised even if we have asked in the past to please avoid such public accusations. And in less than no time, others pick up on that, start hostile interactions with so-and-so and then complain when so-and-so has a comeback. That makes things very difficult indeed. For the accused may indeed be a troll, but what about the provocateur?
Am I saying that we don't share some of those suspicions? No! We often find ourselves in full agreement with the lot of you. But for the so-manieth time, please understand that mods DO . NOT . BAN!
Lastly, when I came back to this thread after two hours of digging into the trolls' posts, 17 posts were made here, some rather heavy on complaints towards the system, yet no sign of the trolls. This is what we always try to get our members to comprehend: by not ignoring the trolls, by allowing yourself to get worked up over them, you accomplish what they set out to do. We invest a dreadful amount of energy in raising the tensions even higher, my evening after a hard day's work hasn't been what I thought it might be when I woke up this morning. And meanwhile, no sign of the trolls. The very title of this thread could be considered pretty insulting towards the folks who run this place if one were to over-analyse it. All this piling up of negative energy and meanwhile, no sign of the trolls. Christ, we're in this thing together, folks! I've spent countless hours here in the past week and yet I haven't made but a minor few James Bond related posts. I'm sorry, but some of what has been posted here today is not cool. And meanwhile... still no sign of the trolls.
Very well put, @Sandy. This is how things go around here. Minor things: a friendly PM. More serious faults: warning. Accumulation of warnings (three): ban.
I don't expect prejudice from the MODs at all, you have a job to do when all said and done. My comment was merely in the interest of levity. At least we were butting heads over Bond, rather than scrawling a myriad of shite about our religious beliefs or physical and mental ailments.
You have my full support, please don't feel pressured.
I see no levity in any such arguments, especially your misplaced political comments yesterday.
Which comments would those be?
...has no place in the Boston marathon thread or anywhere at all for that matter, whether it was meant to be sickly comical or not.
No, I just disapprove of childish commentary on a very serious and devastating event by those who have little or no respect or decency in times of grief. Of course, you know all about that.
Stuff like this I think is the source of the frustration of people like Germanlady.
We all know the Slovenian Helen Keller is a troll but because she now makes a few non-objectionable posts the mods hands seemed to be tied.
Seems a bit like the situation with Abu Hamza and Teresa May. Its political correctness gone mad!
PS - I'm not feeding the troll there merely illustrating an example.
As much as - at times - I disliked and visa versa the likes of RC7, Getafix, Office etc. I would not consider any of those or me a troll. The difference I see is, that we get caught up in heated debates over our beliefs and are quite strong about them. Trolls come here solely to cast mischef and no warning will change their attitude, because they don't WANT to behave. Its NOT their goal. I apologize for having caused annoyment among members with the bickerins, even though I am sure, we will have those again, once the time comes. How to deal with that? Imagine a group of people, two getting into heated debate. What will happen is, that at some point, one will ask them to stop, because it makes no sense anymore and is annoying for the rest. That is what you did - asking us to stop it and we did - always - at that point or mostly right away. Not because its me, but I do see a difference between a heated debate about a topic related to this forum and mischief on purpose.
I still fail to see a reason, why those should have the priviledge to get into the pleasure of the same proceedings as others, who don't mean harm in the first place. I feel fine with getting "Stop it NOW" notes or worse, if I don't and warning and banning, if I don't give in.
But the trolls should be treated differently.
Oh and BTW - I would like to pay my respect to my fellow battle partners, who were still able to agree with me on several occasions, despite the fact, it was me, who said it. Not everyabody is able to do that.
I don't consider me or any of those, who put in their opinion on this matter as mob. Please reconsider. I restarted this to have a movement on a matter, that was the elefant in the room for too long now. My intention was to HELP matters not attacking anybody. I came up with solutions, that could be discussed and might lead to a solution..or not. That has to be seen. But mob? No...
No. This is the system we have in place and we believe it works. Everyone, regardless of who they are, their stature or longevity on the forum, gets three chances. Including you.
If we went for a single warning before a ban, you wouldn't even be here to complain about the system. In fact, I'm sure you'd be thinking how unfair it was you didn't get a second chance.
Listen, the mod team are working their arses off to deal with this issue within the established framework of our system.
1. We will not change the rules to suit our purposes and the whims of certain members.
2. Your attitude to the way in which we are dealing with the situation is wholly inappropriate and insulting, and, not least, damaging to the forum. If you don't like the rules, you shouldn't have agreed to them when you signed up.
That's a joke by the way, a poor attempt might I add. I just feel the place could do with a bit of light heartedness because it seems to me a bit all doom and gloom round these parts at the minute.
I know I speak on behalf of near enough all the members in saying that we appreciate what you mods are doing.
And what IS damaging in the end, remains to be seen. But I am off this topic now for good and won't "insult" you any longer.
The mod team and admins are doing our best and we are looking at ways to make our system leaner and more efficient whilst still retaining the 3 warning system. However, in the interim, be assured that we are working hard to deal with trolling and we ask that you continue to support us by using the IFM policy, rather than call for radical solutions.
I think some people simply do not deserve the benefit of the doubt (i.e. is this member a troll or just plain dumb/stupid?).