The most disappointing Bond movie?

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  • Posts: 4,622
    Big productions used to build intermissions right into the film, but they tended to be longer drawn out affairs, that were well over two hours. If you pick-up some old dvd titles, the intermission is part of the film. It comes up on the screen with music and a curtain and everything. You have to fast forward thru it, or actually take a break, but then the movie always re-starts before you get back. @-)
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Dragonpol wrote:
    For me, the most disappointing entries are Diamonds Are Forever and Die Another Day as their potential was very sadly not realised.

    Very true. As a follow-up to OHMSS DAF made no sense, plus bad dialogue, useless characters, a bored, visibly aged, out of shape Connery. At least the music was great which cannot be said about DAD, the film that made me feel ashamed of being a Bond fan and caused such a trauma that I didn't watch Bond films for over a year. Such potential down the drain.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    DAF was a letdown for me.

    You speak the truth. DAF had the potential to be so much and instead Cubby and Salzman decided to "play it safe" and have fun with the Bond image. Instead of being a serious followup to OHMSS it devolved into a mockery of the better Bond films. welcome to the 1970's 007...

    So true, again sadly. The 1970s is Bond at his most decadent.
  • Posts: 2,341
    If you really think about it most of the Brosnan films were quite disappointing. After GE they just progressively got worst.
    The idea of playing it safe despite having a very popular (at the time) Bond actor in Brosnan.
    Aside from that trainwreck of DAD, TWINE really blew it as well. We had our first (and last) female major villain, Elekra King. It was not well handled as well as the great buildup they gave henchman Renaud then to have him fall flat as well. They made a big deal about his not being able to feel pain but they tossed this cool idea aside later. They did not know if they wanted to make him or her the major villain. In the end they seemed to settle on Renaud... fitting would have been to carry Bond's interal conflict with his feelings for Elektra further. The final climax should have been with her and not Renaud. They should have killed him off earlier and had Bond and Elektra's showdown later.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    If you really think about it most of the Brosnan films were quite disappointing. After GE they just progressively got worst.
    The idea of playing it safe despite having a very popular (at the time) Bond actor in Brosnan.
    Aside from that trainwreck of DAD, TWINE really blew it as well. We had our first (and last) female major villain, Elekra King. It was not well handled as well as the great buildup they gave henchman Renaud then to have him fall flat as well. They made a big deal about his not being able to feel pain but they tossed this cool idea aside later. They did not know if they wanted to make him or her the major villain. In the end they seemed to settle on Renaud... fitting would have been to carry Bond's interal conflict with his feelings for Elektra further. The final climax should have been with her and not Renaud. They should have killed him off earlier and had Bond and Elektra's showdown later.

    I'd agree with that, though I like the direction that TWINE at least took as something quite new and experimental. It deserves some plaudits for that at least. DAD was the final nail in the coffin of the Brosnan era.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Dragonpol wrote:
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    DAF was a letdown for me.

    You speak the truth. DAF had the potential to be so much and instead Cubby and Salzman decided to "play it safe" and have fun with the Bond image. Instead of being a serious followup to OHMSS it devolved into a mockery of the better Bond films. welcome to the 1970's 007...

    So true, again sadly. The 1970s is Bond at his most decadent.

    I don't really find the 70s films to be lacking or a decline in regards to quality, but something else entirely. The 70s films all have their staples that make them unique from what came before and after them, and even I can sit and enjoy a Moore Bond film, but there is something missing for me, something that made the character who he is: depth. Sure, the Moore films are huge fun romps, but they really aren't anything more. You couldn't then branch off and discuss Bond and what he is thinking. His doubts, frustrations, pains and more. These things the Moore era had too little of, the moments we connected to 007 beyond all the one-liners, and they were never consistent. We get a mention here or there of Tracy, but that's all and it doesn't feel like this man we are watching was the Bond from 69, I must admit. When it comes down to it, it is the 60s films along with Craig's and Dalton's films that I will enjoy most; the films where Bond is a complex and interesting character who has dimension.
  • Posts: 15,125
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    OHMSS69 wrote:
    If you really think about it most of the Brosnan films were quite disappointing. After GE they just progressively got worst.
    The idea of playing it safe despite having a very popular (at the time) Bond actor in Brosnan.
    Aside from that trainwreck of DAD, TWINE really blew it as well. We had our first (and last) female major villain, Elekra King. It was not well handled as well as the great buildup they gave henchman Renaud then to have him fall flat as well. They made a big deal about his not being able to feel pain but they tossed this cool idea aside later. They did not know if they wanted to make him or her the major villain. In the end they seemed to settle on Renaud... fitting would have been to carry Bond's interal conflict with his feelings for Elektra further. The final climax should have been with her and not Renaud. They should have killed him off earlier and had Bond and Elektra's showdown later.

    This is the main problem with TWINE: it is unable to focus on one villain. We have one Bond girl that is also a villainess, supposed to be the main baddie, yet the primary antagonist throughout the movie is Renard. I think it was a mistake to make her the main villain and him the henchman: they should have shared the bill the way koskov and Whitaker do. None of them completely dominant, each completing the other and being lethal to Bond on his or her own way. Or look at FRWL for another good example of multiple villains being used: one main henchman, at least two villains in a position of leadership (Blofeld, Klebb and to a lesser extend Kronsteen). Yet they are all memorable, all are well defined.
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 11,189
    I think the main villain is intended to be Electra even but we are made to THINK its Renard. Its HER scheme ultimately and she has the grudge against M (M left her when she was kidnapped).
  • Posts: 15,125
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I think the main villain is intended to be Electra even but we are made to THINK its Renard. Its HER scheme ultimately and she has the grudge against M (M left her when she was kidnapped).

    Yes, but it does not quite work as well as intended. I was never completely convinced by Elektra as the main villain and Renard as the lovestruck psycho.
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Ludovico wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I think the main villain is intended to be Electra even but we are made to THINK its Renard. Its HER scheme ultimately and she has the grudge against M (M left her when she was kidnapped).

    Yes, but it does not quite work as well as intended. I was never completely convinced by Elektra as the main villain and Renard as the lovestruck psycho.

    Carlyle did well with what he was given but I wonder whether he was as menacing as he could have been. This was meant to be one of the world's most dangerous, feared men after all and we rarely see him do anything really dastardly. He's responsible for killing Dr Arkov and a few army/navy men but that's about it. He doesn't really do anything where we think "ooo...this bloke's nasty" other than pick up a scolding rock. It would have been good to have seen him actually kill someone with his bear hands or perhaps brutally kill one of M's bodyguards infront of her. It may have just given him a bit more...umph as a character.
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Carlyle is completely wasted by the TWINE script and even more so by Apted's direction. Such a shame ~X(
  • Posts: 15,125
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I think the main villain is intended to be Electra even but we are made to THINK its Renard. Its HER scheme ultimately and she has the grudge against M (M left her when she was kidnapped).

    Yes, but it does not quite work as well as intended. I was never completely convinced by Elektra as the main villain and Renard as the lovestruck psycho.

    Carlyle did well with what he was given but I wonder whether he was as menacing as he could have been. This was meant to be one of the world's most dangerous, feared men after all and we rarely see him do anything really dastardly. He's responsible for killing Dr Arkov and a few army/navy men but that's about it. He doesn't really do anything where we think "ooo...this bloke's nasty" other than pick up a scolding rock. It would have been good to have seen him actually kill someone with his bear hands or perhaps brutally kill one of M's bodyguards infront of her. It may have just given him a bit more...umph as a character.

    Carlyle is a great actor. He could have been so much more menacing, I agree completely. His character was supposed to be Bane before TDDK in a way. He never quite achieved this level of menace.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Pffft. TWINE was not in any way all that it could have & should have been, but it was a good Bond flick nonetheless IMO.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Oh don't get me wrong I like TWINE. It might be Brosnan's best. But it has flaws.
  • Posts: 5,634
    It is Brosnan's best, and Yes, it has flaws also. If only the last 20 minutes were as enthralling as the first, it could of been one of the best ever. Certainly disappointed about the way it went towards the last third, after the great story before it. The submarine finale never offers much, and as with Tomorrow Never Dies directly before it, it's so easy to lose interest well into the second half. Ending in Turkey (and you don't see much of it - Istanbul) was boring to be honest, I would rather have seen Renard and Bond fight it out at a different location, boat on the Thames for example back in London. Pity really, after the fine entertainment that came before it
  • Posts: 295
    I saw DAF before OHMSS so I can't say that one. For me probably TLD and LTK...I had high hopes for Dalton, being my first on-screen Bond, and I was underwhelmed.
  • Posts: 295
    GE - DAD are crappier films, however I walked into them expecting crap, so wasn't disappointed per se.
  • Posts: 5,634
    You're essentially castigating Brosnan's Bond with that then

    Fair enough, but only Tomorrow Never Dies and Die Another Day stand out as truly poor efforts. Don't really have an issue with the other two, one being (TWINE), a damn fine adventure, and Goldeneye for the most part, was almost as good
  • edited May 2013 Posts: 295
    Brosnan's Bond was too prettyboy-ish for me. Bond needs to be a man...not a boy pretending.

    Mod edit: slightly objectionable comment removed.
  • Posts: 5,634
    Yes, that's a fair point. The Irishman was too effeminate in his portrayal of the Fleming character. Poor representation for the most part, but I'm not up for bashing Brosnan right now, but only a fair minded comment
  • Posts: 1,996
    Most disappointing, not the worst, is Diamonds Are Forever. The return of Connery was a major let down. Clownish Blofeld coupled with Jimmy Dean's (yes of sausage fame) Howard Hughes impression was too much. After the vastly superior OHMSS, DAF seemed amateurish and juvenile. Connery's "Where's Ernst Stavro Blofeld" was barely as convincing as Jill St. John's performance. I wish Lazenby had stayed on. Connery's half-hearted return followed by Moore's abysmal years was a major disappointment for this "original" fan.
  • Posts: 1,098
    For me the most dissappointing Bond film was:-

    QOS:-

    Reasons:- film was too short, weak storyline, no character development, but by far the worst was the shaky-cam direction of the action scenes, and the over editing of the film which rendered large parts of the film unwatchable.
    Oh...........i nearly forgot that truly dreadful title song, which sounded like a cat screeching.

    A big minus point for EON for this effort, well at least they got the next film right, its just that this poorly conceived Bond film should not of happened in the first place.

    I mean there have been other weak Bond films, but at least they were watchable!

    Rant over.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited May 2013 Posts: 28,694
    mepal1 wrote:
    For me the most dissappointing Bond film was:-

    QOS:-

    Reasons:- film was too short, weak storyline, no character development, but by far the worst was the shaky-cam direction of the action scenes, and the over editing of the film which rendered large parts of the film unwatchable.
    Oh...........i nearly forgot that truly dreadful title song, which sounded like a cat screeching.

    A big minus point for EON for this effort, well at least they got the next film right, its just that this poorly conceived Bond film should not of happened in the first place.

    I mean there have been other weak Bond films, but at least they were watchable!

    Rant over.

    Seriously? Do you do birthdays?
  • Posts: 4,762
    On Her Majesty's Secret Service or Goldfinger- either one leaves very little to be desired, and make up the only Bond movies which I am always tempted to turn off before the ending, just to spare myself from their lack of, well, anything!
  • Posts: 15,125
    It is Brosnan's best, and Yes, it has flaws also. If only the last 20 minutes were as enthralling as the first, it could of been one of the best ever. Certainly disappointed about the way it went towards the last third, after the great story before it. The submarine finale never offers much, and as with Tomorrow Never Dies directly before it, it's so easy to lose interest well into the second half. Ending in Turkey (and you don't see much of it - Istanbul) was boring to be honest, I would rather have seen Renard and Bond fight it out at a different location, boat on the Thames for example back in London. Pity really, after the fine entertainment that came before it

    I think the first 20 was actually overlong, I do not like all that much the PTS everyone seems to praise. Not a bad one per se, but way too long for a PTS.

    Anyway TWINE was maybe more disappointing not for what it was but for what it could have been and what it lead to. In TWINE, we have to some degree the failed prototype of CR: a more personal relationship with the Bond girl, terrorism as background... But it has also too much of the formulaic stuff that DAD will later overdose on: heavy implausible gadgetry, a few miscasts (okay, one), and some poor lines. When I first watched it, I loved it, despite its flaws (and for the record I still like it), and I was hoping that the next one would build on what worked and ditch what did not.
  • Posts: 1,092
    It has to be YOLT for any Bond fan b/c this is where the series took a dip in quality. A blatant, obvious dip. The first four are four of the best in the series, still to this day, and not only did the series take a hit financially but critically as well. Plus, Connery was done here. He phone in this and DAF. Bond Golden Age was finished with YOLT.
  • Posts: 15,125
    The_Reaper wrote:
    It has to be YOLT for any Bond fan b/c this is where the series took a dip in quality. A blatant, obvious dip. The first four are four of the best in the series, still to this day, and not only did the series take a hit financially but critically as well. Plus, Connery was done here. He phone in this and DAF. Bond Golden Age was finished with YOLT.

    This. YOLT is not the worst Bond movie, but he is the first one that is a drop in quality.
  • Posts: 2,341
    Ludovico wrote:
    The_Reaper wrote:
    It has to be YOLT for any Bond fan b/c this is where the series took a dip in quality. A blatant, obvious dip. The first four are four of the best in the series, still to this day, and not only did the series take a hit financially but critically as well. Plus, Connery was done here. He phone in this and DAF. Bond Golden Age was finished with YOLT.

    This. YOLT is not the worst Bond movie, but he is the first one that is a drop in quality.

    YOLT is an interesting study. If you watch it you can see how by this time due to the many imitatiors in the marketplace, Bond had began to blend into the gray area where Bond was now imitating the imitators. We often comment on the trend following of the 1970's and Moore's films but YOLT is actually following a current trend itself.
    It suffers from this and the fact that Connery is bored, overweight and was just wanted to get it over with so he could move on with his career.
  • Posts: 5,634
    Pushed for time today, but has License to Kill been mentioned. Yes, Dalton gives another superlative performance and great Fleming-esque qualities, but the actual film itself is pretty mundane. The locations are exotic, if not up to much. It's just for locations alone, there isn't much to offer, only Florida and Mexico, and we don't see much of the latter. Would of been great if set in Europe as Daylights was, but the whole latino feel to things just didn't work for some. It has to be one of the most disappointing releases maybe. Great Bond in Dalton - everything else can't quite live up to it in all honesty, despite some great peformances from other names such as Robert Davi. Yes, it was disappointing in that aspect
  • Posts: 15,125
    Pushed for time today, but has License to Kill been mentioned. Yes, Dalton gives another superlative performance and great Fleming-esque qualities, but the actual film itself is pretty mundane. The locations are exotic, if not up to much. It's just for locations alone, there isn't much to offer, only Florida and Mexico, and we don't see much of the latter. Would of been great if set in Europe as Daylights was, but the whole latino feel to things just didn't work for some. It has to be one of the most disappointing releases maybe. Great Bond in Dalton - everything else can't quite live up to it in all honesty, despite some great peformances from other names such as Robert Davi. Yes, it was disappointing in that aspect

    LTK I thought was marred with 80s action movies cliches. That is why I never managed to really like it.
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