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Chimera - help needed

ForcelandForceland
edited July 2013 in Skyfall Posts: 42
Fellow Bondians
A while ago I wrote a post on 007 Under the Mango Tree about Severine's ship Chimera.
If anyone can bring some quality suggestions about the symbolism of the name Chimera within the story of Bond and Skyfall give me a shout. I've tried but cannot come any closer than this for the time being.
Check it out here:
http://007underthemangotree.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/chimera/

Comments

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Very interesting indeed, and I have pondered much the same thing. While I too will have to research more, I remember Sam Mendes saying in his Skyfall commentary that while creating and playing her character of Severine, Bérénice Marlohe pictured a dragon. For instance, notice that when Severine smokes her cigarette, the smoke exits at one point through her nostrils, as you would see the smoke escape from on a dragon. In addition, her nails are sharp and long, like that of the same creature. She also commands a dark and dangerous appearance in the casino in Macau, almost foreshadowing coming danger when Bond first sees her gazing out the shattered window in Shanghai, just as dragons commonly are in mythology. To feed even more into the dragon motif, the Macau casino contains floating dragon heads and warm, fiery colors inside, including a pit for komodo dragons.

    In mythology the Chimera was a fire-breathing monster with a lion's head, goat's body, and snake's behind, widely considered to be female and was an omen for terrible events including shipwrecks, storms, natural disasters and more. The creature's ability to breathe fire and ominous presence feed back into the character Bérénice imaged Severine to be. Also, in many of the pictures drawn of the monster it appears to be very dragon-like, again feeding more into the dragon theme Severine has. When considering all this, that may be why Severine's boat was symbolically called The Chimera.

    I just wanted to add in my thoughts on the matter, but I will try to get back to you on this while I do my own sleuthing. Cheers!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I do think Brady has hit the nail on the head. I've looked into the Greek mythology area of Chimera and Bellerophon over the years since the tale appeared in 'M:I-2,' and I think it's safe to say that with all of the dragon symbology, that is why the boat was titled as such.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I do think Brady has hit the nail on the head. I've looked into the Greek mythology area of Chimera and Bellerophon over the years since the tale appeared in 'M:I-2,' and I think it's safe to say that with all of the dragon symbology, that is why the boat was titled as such.

    That is where I first grew fascinated with it as well! And they say you can't be educated by action films.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, who knew? It's crazy what you can learn from films and games. One of my biggest fascinations and interests is history, and I learned so much from WWII thanks to 'Band of Brothers' and 'Call of Duty 2.' Granted, history textbooks help, but the more you know!
  • SiberiaSiberia
    Posts: 30
    Unrelated, but I always loved the name of the boat Bond commandeers in Quantum of Solace. Gardien des Etoiles - guardian of the stars.

    "Secatur" from Live and Let Die was a good one too.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Forceland wrote:
    Fellow Bondians
    A while ago I wrote a post on 007 Under the Mango Tree about Severine's ship Chimera.
    If anyone can bring some quality suggestions about the symbolism of the name Chimera within the story of Bond and Skyfall give me a shout. I've tried but cannot come any closer than this for the time being.
    Check it out here:
    http://007underthemangotree.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/chimera/

    Your blog looks very interesting indeed. I've linked it to my own The Bondologist Blog in its links section.
  • TuuliaTuulia
    edited July 2013 Posts: 2,081
    I'm also with Brady on this. I associate the name of her boat with her, not with any other characters in the movie like Forceland suggested.

    Chimera being a fire-breathing female creature is why she must be seen smoking, I think. Her smoking/exhaling smoke is a very visual element in the movie - she isn't just smoking for no reason. (Does anyone else in Skyfall smoke?) Her nails aren't just your regular nails, either, they're claw-like. Her hair resembles a lion's mane when let loose in the wind, and the mythical Chimera's lion has a mane despite the creature mainly being seen as female. It's a hybrid, after all.

    Severine is a mysterious creature of many sides. She is dangerous and scared, like a wounded, threatened animal. She isn't only a tragic character, she also carries a gun (surely not for decorative purposes) and takes part in art scams that involve getting people killed (she is very business-like about it, apparently, and has clearly seen something like it happen before, probably many times).

    Bérénice herself spoke of animals, of dragons as inspiration, and of the character being dangerous, complex, with animal-male-female elements.

    Also, I found dictionary synonyms for the noun chimera interesting in the context:
    fantasy, conceit, daydream, delusion, dream, fancy, figment, hallucination, illusion, nonentity, phantasm (also fantasm), pipe dream, unreality, vision
  • ForcelandForceland
    Posts: 42
    Great input guys. That's very helpful.
    To be fair I have not yet seen the Sam Mendes Audio commentary version of Skyfall so the whole Severine/Dragon symbolism has elluded me.
    Cheers, I'll look into it and update the post.
    And, to you Mr Brady, Sir, many thanks.
    I'm still going with the Turkey bit and I actually thought that I had put in the part about the Chimera being an omen.
  • TuuliaTuulia
    Posts: 2,081
    Forceland wrote:
    Great input guys. That's very helpful.
    To be fair I have not yet seen the Sam Mendes Audio commentary version of Skyfall so the whole Severine/Dragon symbolism has elluded me.
    Cheers, I'll look into it and update the post.
    And, to you Mr Brady, Sir, many thanks.
    I'm still going with the Turkey bit and I actually thought that I had put in the part about the Chimera being an omen.

    I haven't seen it, either. :( I didn't even know he talks about it there.
    Got the br disc, too, but not the player, I only have a dvd player. Not having Sam's commentary available on dvd is just... wrong. As soon as I get the new tv and the br player that's the first thing I want to see/hear, and I'm really looking forward to it.
  • Bertha_widehips420Bertha_widehips420
    edited August 2013 Posts: 19
    I did your education for you:

    Homer's brief description in the Iliad is the earliest surviving literary reference: "a thing of immortal make, not human, lion-fronted and snake behind, a goat in the middle, and snorting out the breath of the terrible flame of bright fire". Elsewhere in the Iliad, Homer attributes the rearing of Chimera to Amisodorus. Hesiod's Theogony follows the Homeric description: he makes the Chimera the issue of Echidna: "She was the mother of Chimaera who breathed raging fire, a creature fearful, great, swift-footed and strong, who had three heads, one of a grim-eyed lion; in her hinderpart, a dragon; and in her middle, a goat, breathing forth a fearful blast of blazing fire. Her did Pegasus and noble Bellerophon slay" The author of the Bibliotheca concurs: descriptions agree that she breathed fire. The Chimera is generally considered to have been female (see the quotation from Hesiod above) despite the mane adorning its lion's head, the inclusion of a close mane often was depicted on lionesses, but the ears always were visible (that does not occur with depictions of male lions). Sighting the Chimera was an omen of storms, shipwrecks, and natural disasters (particularly volcanoes).
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    Oh goodies my kind of thread, as I know a thing or two about Greek mythology. Something else about chimera: in French it also means something you desire but cannot have because it does not exist or cannot happen. Like a fantasy you want to be true. To pursue a Chimera is to embark on a quest for an aim you will fail to obtain. Which is what Severine does, trying to escapes from her past. Bond hunting Silva is also hunting a sort of Chimera, as Silva is elusive.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Perhaps the boat was named the Chimera because it sounds cool. Naaaaaah. That's crazy talk!
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Perhaps the boat was named the Chimera because it sounds cool. Naaaaaah. That's crazy talk!

    Like I used to say to my students when I used to teach literature: everything is significant in fiction.
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    Ludovico wrote:
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Perhaps the boat was named the Chimera because it sounds cool. Naaaaaah. That's crazy talk!

    Like I used to say to my students when I used to teach literature: everything is significant in fiction.

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    Shark wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Perhaps the boat was named the Chimera because it sounds cool. Naaaaaah. That's crazy talk!

    Like I used to say to my students when I used to teach literature: everything is significant in fiction.

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    Oh it doesn't mean it is deeply symbolic. But it is significant that the boat is called Chimera and not The Merry Sailor.
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited August 2013 Posts: 348
    Ludovico wrote:
    Shark wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Perhaps the boat was named the Chimera because it sounds cool. Naaaaaah. That's crazy talk!

    Like I used to say to my students when I used to teach literature: everything is significant in fiction.

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    Oh it doesn't mean it is deeply symbolic. But it is significant that the boat is called Chimera and not The Merry Sailor.

    As Khan said, it's because it sounds exotic and cool. Like the Flying Saucer being translated into Italian becoming the Disco Volante. No big deal.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Ludovico wrote:
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Perhaps the boat was named the Chimera because it sounds cool. Naaaaaah. That's crazy talk!

    Like I used to say to my students when I used to teach literature: everything is significant in fiction.

    Oh goodness, really? Well, that's a fast way to make students uninterested and frustrated. Many teachers of mine have pulled that kind of logic, and it is part of the reason why most literature classes aren't as fun as they should be and why a lot of kids enrolled in school have no interest in exploring the great classic pieces of literature present in our world. I can't count how many times I have gotten into arguments with professors about whether or not a line or word from a so-called "genius piece of writing" is symbolic.

    It's the equivalent of film fans going on about how Kubrick never made continuity errors and instead only made intentional "mistakes" that had significance in every shot of his films. I mean, the man was brilliant, but he wasn't that brilliant. Nobody is.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    Have you attended any of my classes Braddy? So don't presume of the quality or interest of my teaching because of one line. I'm not saying a writer is perfect, obviously not. Neither is symbolism the end all approach to analyse a work of fiction. But in a work of fiction, everything can be analysed, everything is significant and whether or not it was intentional is irrelevant (we often have no way to verify anyway). Maybe Chimera was a lucky choice, unintentional, but it fits the character of Severine perfectly.
  • ForcelandForceland
    edited September 2013 Posts: 42
    I am thousands of quids away from getting a BluRay and HiDef telly so the audio commentary of Sam Mendes will allude for some time I suppose. I take it, it isn't available on the Skyfall DVD.
    That slick dragon reference that Brady mentioned seems to be the key one.

    As for it just being a cool name, I would think so about many Bond films but not Skyfall. No, sir. Everything in Skyfall, down to the last detail means something. Well, perhaps not everything, but as I said before it is the most symbolic Bond film yet. Mark my words.

    Maybe Renard's boat named "Seven Heaven" doesn't mean anything (or does it) but the Onatopp Manticore sure does. Ever so, does the Chimera refer to that yacht from GoldenEye also named after an ancient mythological monster.
    Read my post on the Manticore here:
    http://007underthemangotree.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/manticore/
  • illUMA69N4UGHTY69illUMA69N4UGHTY69 Banned
    edited September 2013 Posts: 98
    Ludovico, you are the reason .

    Chimera is just a cool nick name don't get all hot and bothered !
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    illUMA69N4UGHTY69 wrote:
    Ludovico, you are the reason our school system is failing.

    Chimera is just a cool nick name don't get all hot and bothered !

    Well you'll be glad I don't teach anymore then. But have you seen me teaching to have such strong opinion about it? I think ignorance and a lack of curiosity are what makes the school system fail. Not teachers who think their subject is relevant and worth studying. So I will take your comment for what it is, a stupid ad hominem reduction.

    Chimera might just be a cool nickname, but it exist in a context in the movie and as part of it can be analysed. I've never seen a student failing by wondering about an element in a work of fiction and investigating it.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote:
    illUMA69N4UGHTY69 wrote:
    Ludovico, you are the reason our school system is failing.

    Chimera is just a cool nick name don't get all hot and bothered !

    Well you'll be glad I don't teach anymore then. But have you seen me teaching to have such strong opinion about it? I think ignorance and a lack of curiosity are what makes the school system fail. Not teachers who think their subject is relevant and worth studying. So I will take your comment for what it is, a stupid ad hominem reduction.

    Chimera might just be a cool nickname, but it exist in a context in the movie and as part of it can be analysed. I've never seen a student failing by wondering about an element in a work of fiction and investigating it.

    I strongly suggest IFM old chap. This guy has all the classic hallmarks.
  • illUMA69N4UGHTY69illUMA69N4UGHTY69 Banned
    edited September 2013 Posts: 98
    Its Just a bit of hyperbole, I have a bit of a bone to prick with some of my teachers !

    Sorry if I got off as inflamingatory. I agree, that a love of learning is important !
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    It was a stupid, condescending, ad hominem hyperbole.
  • illUMA69N4UGHTY69illUMA69N4UGHTY69 Banned
    Posts: 98
    Hyperbole is a litterary device. &, I took it out of my comment. back on topic.
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