A View to a Kill Appreciation Thread- Anybody else want to drop out?

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  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2013 Posts: 18,264
    Please see my related thread on AVTAK and US audience reaction on MI6 Community here:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/7625/applause-at-the-silicon-valley-destruction-plot-in-a-view-to-a-kill-1985-in-cinema-theatres#Item_6

    It may be of interest to those reading and contributing to this thread.

    Despite what I write in the above thread, I am a big AVTAK fan and I would like to provide a link here to Dr Andrew McNess's book on AVTAK which I'm in the process of reading again and which is a brilliant accompaniment to the film:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/James-Bond-Our-Sights-Close/dp/1465382380/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377090801&sr=1-1
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 388
    Well this is an appreciation thread. If you have criticism for the film, why don't you start a thread?

    Sure. I appreciate all the Bond films (hence why I'm here):
    I quite like the film. It's fun and harmless. Christopher Walken is excellent and Grace Jones is one of the few interesting henchmen in the series. Nice to see Patrick Macnee too.

    But surely this forum exists for more interesting discussion than just strings of posts featuring pure untempered praise? Always more interested in discussion looking at the pros and cons for each film.
  • boldfinger wrote:
    I must strongly object, even though I´m repeating myself from various other threads: Moore looks younger than ever in AVTAK. Not his face, but his manner, the way he strolls along in that sweat suit, he appears more like a youth than the senior he was at the time. A blazing example of how fit an elderly gent can be physically! A beautiful inspiration for the future!

    I think that's my point. Moore is acting as young (or younger, as you say) in AVTAK than he was in FYEO or OP. The film simply ignores the fact that he's 58 years old and has him acting like a 30 year old.
    boldfinger wrote:
    The belief that age equals weakness and sickness is sick.

    I don't think the the problem. It's not really a question of weakness or physical strength. It's just as much about Bond's attitude in the film... in FYEO Bond displays a maturity befitting his years. In the Dalton films, SF and even the Brosnan films, Bond displays a cynicism or weariness that speaks of a man who's been living this life for a long time. I don't really perceive that in AVTAK (apart from Rog dozing in his chair!) - the script, direction and performance all conspire to pretend Bond is ageless.

    Still, don't want to dwell on the negatives too much as the OP has slapped my wrist - just an observation.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2013 Posts: 18,264
    boldfinger wrote:
    I must strongly object, even though I´m repeating myself from various other threads: Moore looks younger than ever in AVTAK. Not his face, but his manner, the way he strolls along in that sweat suit, he appears more like a youth than the senior he was at the time. A blazing example of how fit an elderly gent can be physically! A beautiful inspiration for the future!

    I think that's my point. Moore is acting as young (or younger, as you say) in AVTAK than he was in FYEO or OP. The film simply ignores the fact that he's 58 years old and has him acting like a 30 year old.
    boldfinger wrote:
    The belief that age equals weakness and sickness is sick.

    I don't think the the problem. It's not really a question of weakness or physical strength. It's just as much about Bond's attitude in the film... in FYEO Bond displays a maturity befitting his years. In the Dalton films, SF and even the Brosnan films, Bond displays a cynicism or weariness that speaks of a man who's been living this life for a long time. I don't really perceive that in AVTAK (apart from Rog dozing in his chair!) - the script, direction and performance all conspire to pretend Bond is ageless.

    Still, don't want to dwell on the negatives too much as the OP has slapped my wrist - just an observation.

    Yes, I think this is correct, though I think that Andrew McNess deals with some of the issues that you raise if you have a look at his book on AVTAK.
  • Posts: 1,052
    I don't know if there are subtle hints of Bond having been there done that, such as his contempt for Zorin without the usual pleasantries but again I feel Bond's age needed to be more blatantly addressed or we just supposed to take it that Moore is older so therefore Bond is older?

    I suppose you could argue that It's not impossible for a man of advancing years to be able to bed all those women?
  • Compared with the weak and disappointing NSNA, AVTAK was great indeed. And I preferred to the flabby OP, which I still enjoyed. AVTAK felt leaner and lighter on its feet. Great villain, interesting backstory, fine locations, brill score. The song beats All Time High hands down. I think Moore looked oddly younger in a lot of scenes. Macnee was great too. May Day great henchwoman!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Here's my favorite reason to like AVTAK.
  • Posts: 6,396
    That's a great piece @Murdoch. I absolutely love this variation on it:

  • Posts: 52
    I love AVTAK, the first bond film I ever saw at the cinema. Great action and story and I LOVE the opening sequence then straight into one of the greatest ever Bond themes too, tremendous
  • Posts: 1,052
    Having read the other thread currently running regarding AVTAK and reading of the postive repsonses experienced by people who saw the film in the cinema at the time, it does get me thinking, did anyone think it was terrible when they saw it in the theatre?

    It seems to have such a bad rep but I remember watching it at a party in the early 00's and everyone seem to remember it well and commented on it being one of their favrouites.

    What I'm wondering is has the bad rep built up over time or was it an immediate thing?
  • Just changing times mate. In my day, all the blokes writing the Bond analysis (Lee Pfeiffer, Dave Worrall etc) grew up on Connery/Young, loved DN and FRWL, hated Moore, too silly they reckoned. Now the kids of the 80s (guilty as charged haha!) have cone of age, we can see the likes of DN as the creaky granny **** it is, and can get a good laugh outta AVTAK and suchlike. Moore has a much better rep now than he used to. Pierce is the new Moore- folks hate his guts now if this forums anything to go by, but give it 20 odd years and hell be #1 with a bullet, mark me words. Daniel Craigll be given the rough treatment in 10 years time. Classic backlash! :) all good though, thats life, its here to be enjoyed
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2013 Posts: 18,264
    Just changing times mate. In my day, all the blokes writing the Bond analysis (Lee Pfeiffer, Dave Worrall etc) grew up on Connery/Young, loved DN and FRWL, hated Moore, too silly they reckoned. Now the kids of the 80s (guilty as charged haha!) have cone of age, we can see the likes of DN as the creaky granny **** it is, and can get a good laugh outta AVTAK and suchlike. Moore has a much better rep now than he used to. Pierce is the new Moore- folks hate his guts now if this forums anything to go by, but give it 20 odd years and hell be #1 with a bullet, mark me words. Daniel Craigll be given the rough treatment in 10 years time. Classic backlash! :) all good though, thats life, its here to be enjoyed

    Great post for such a new member, sir. I'm in total agreement and I too am an '80s child who defends Sir Roger Moore!

    Welcome to MI6 Community!
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 7
    Thanks mate, thought having a go at DN would get me in the bad books, haha. It wouldve if id had a go at it in 1997, about when i first became active on the Bond circuit. Had to keep your opinions to yourself a lot back then!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2013 Posts: 18,264
    Thanks mate, thought having a go at DN would get me in the bad books, haha. It wouldve if id had a go at it in 1997, about when i first became active on the Bond circuit. Had to keep your opinions to yourself a lot back then!

    My pleasure. I'm glad to say times have changed and Roger Moore is much more accepted nowadays, just as OHMSS became popular again. These things are cyclical, it would seem.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited August 2013 Posts: 5,080
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Zorin and his manic cast of henchmen are always the best reason to show AVTAK a little bit of love. I love the Walken/Gray "Dr. Frankenstein and his monster" references, and Jones isn't that bad as a henchperson when she's killing people (note to Grace from Sir Roger- in future love scenes please leave the big black dildo at home). Very nice locations and the usual great music from Barry. That's about all from me.

    I like the bit about Frankenstein and his Monster layering in AVTAK. I might even use that in my review myself, with your approval of course, @SirHenryLeeChaChing!

    Feel free, I'm sure I'm not the only person to ever draw that conclusion.

    Thanks. It is an interesting idea, though, regardless of its originality.

    Love it! Best piece from the film!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Zorin and his manic cast of henchmen are always the best reason to show AVTAK a little bit of love. I love the Walken/Gray "Dr. Frankenstein and his monster" references, and Jones isn't that bad as a henchperson when she's killing people (note to Grace from Sir Roger- in future love scenes please leave the big black dildo at home). Very nice locations and the usual great music from Barry. That's about all from me.

    I like the bit about Frankenstein and his Monster layering in AVTAK. I might even use that in my review myself, with your approval of course, @SirHenryLeeChaChing!

    Feel free, I'm sure I'm not the only person to ever draw that conclusion.

    Thanks. It is an interesting idea, though, regardless of its originality.

    Love it! Best piece from the film!

    Indeed. The villains of AVTAK really are a different breed. One of the highlights of this film, for sure.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 1
    Though I've been a fan of Bond for a long time, my experience with the Bond series was limited to the post-Brosnan era. However, last week I marathoned the old films and boy they were absolutely amazing. I also got a copy of CR (the novel) after I was done with them, and my experience was even greater.

    Before watching the old films, for me Brosnan WAS Bond. I loved his character. How he could be somewhat serious, yet still be a gentleman. When Craig first showed up, I didn't really like him. CR felt like an average action movie than a Bond film to me. Then I watched QoS and left the cinema with a bad aftertaste. I even thought that might have been the last Bond film I would watch, but I gave it a try again with Skyfall and I quite liked it - Craig was far less cold and serious, and seemed slightly closer to the Bond I had experienced with Brosnan. That being said, I'm still not a big fan of Craig.

    However, after watching the old movies I have a very different idea of the character and the series as whole. Anyhow, skipping my whole experience I've got to say I loved Moore's Bond. Certainly, it feels considerably different from the rest, especially from the more serious Dalton and Craig, but considering the time Moore's films were being done, I have no complaints. Having watched plenty of old movies, I don't get the impression people back then were as obsessed with realism as people nowadays do. So, I enjoyed Moore's somewhat humouristic, charming and casanova-like Bond. I really liked his interactions with M better than Brosnan's and Craig's, and I think Moore's Bond probably had the worst relationship with Q - followed by Connery's - which I always found funny.

    Anyhow, regarding AVTK, I was surprised it had really poor ratings when I thought the movie was really solid. I don't know if the ratings come from modern critics (though, by reading this thread I've learnt older critics seemed to hate Moore's guts), who rate the old movies by today's standards, which are perhaps more focused on realism. Buy in my opinion, I thought AVTK was an improvement over OP (which I did like), and even less crazy like other films like MR. I thought Zorin was a great villain, in the sense that he was just a psycho. He reminded me a lot of Goldfinger, due to their business. However, GF was all about his business, whereas Zorin could be doing business, but it was clear he truly loved killing. Christopher Walken played Zorin's role amazing well.

    As for Moore's performance, I though he was much more dynamic in AVTK than in OP, which was somewhat lacking in the action department. So, despite his age, I think he did an amazing job in his final movie.
    Regarding whether he should have been more serious or acted older, I don't think Moore's acting in AVTK was very different from his behaviour in other movies. He was as candid as he had always been, with that touch of sarcasm he always had. Dalton and Brosnan playing the part of a more "weary" Bond isn't Moore's fault. Dalton wanted to play his Bond closer to the one Flemming had written, and Brosnan simply did it that way. So, I can't fault Moore's behaviour on what the newer actors decided to do with the role.
  • JrW_008JrW_008 The North
    Posts: 112
    I really enjoy AVTAK. I find it to be on of my 'go to' Bond films.

    Despite Roger's age I see no real issues and I'm glad he done it as the film was suited to his Bond in my opinion. Supporting cast including Walken, who some say deserved to portray a Bond villain in a better film, was excellent for me. May Day is a bit of a strange one but again, fits the film. The scenes between Bond and Tibbett are typical Roger, being a fan of his this shines through for me. Also like the character of Sir Godfrey Tibbett and would rather not have been killed off.

    Locations are prime, Zorin's estate is beautiful and Dr Carl Mortner convenient little lab is very Bond. Silicon Valley and San Francisco in general look great. Plot may not be considered one of the best and I agree on that but I still watch it time and time again so something must be good about it. I'd say that the horse implants aspect, and the involvement of horses in general is what pulls me back in being a big horse racing fan.

    To conclude my poorly written little piece I'd say that AVTAK is all round a solid Bond film which fills in the three main aspects for me. Cast, location and plot. Better to worse in that order. It certainly isn't too highly regarded amongst the majority of fans but I for one like it, however can't seem to explain why.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    JrW_008 wrote:
    I really enjoy AVTAK. I find it to be on of my 'go to' Bond films.

    Despite Roger's age I see no real issues and I'm glad he done it as the film was suited to his Bond in my opinion. Supporting cast including Walken, who some say deserved to portray a Bond villain in a better film, was excellent for me. May Day is a bit of a strange one but again, fits the film. The scenes between Bond and Tibbett are typical Roger, being a fan of his this shines through for me. Also like the character of Sir Godfrey Tibbett and would rather not have been killed off.

    Locations are prime, Zorin's estate is beautiful and Dr Carl Mortner convenient little lab is very Bond. Silicon Valley and San Francisco in general look great. Plot may not be considered one of the best and I agree on that but I still watch it time and time again so something must be good about it. I'd say that the horse implants aspect, and the involvement of horses in general is what pulls me back in being a big horse racing fan.

    To conclude my poorly written little piece I'd say that AVTAK is all round a solid Bond film which fills in the three main aspects for me. Cast, location and plot. Better to worse in that order. It certainly isn't too highly regarded amongst the majority of fans but I for one like it, however can't seem to explain why.

    Well written and you've done a fairly good job overall in explaining the good things about AVTAK. Don't run yourself down, @JrW_008.
  • I have to agree with @JrW_008 and state that I also have a fondness for the much-maligned AVTAK

    It's a film not without its faults (see Keystone Cops, "Mahhhhh Carrrr" and the overuse of Sir Rog's "owowhohhhhhh" moment to name but a few), but I can overlook them and see the charm

    Christopher Walken hams it up beautifully as the deranged and psychotic villain and Grace Jones, although not to everyone's tastes, adds a mystique and dangerous dimension to the story. The sight of Zorin gunning down the miners alongside Scarpine with that smirking grin on his face is a fantastic scene and really shows how crazy this guy is.

    Rog's age? Ok, he's probably too old to be bedding Stacey and running around like he's 25, but Roger somehow pulls it off. He's still believable as Bond in it - no need for that walker just yet!

    The creeping around the stud farm, the goon fight at Stacey's house, the Golden Gate Bridge finale, the PTS, the Eiffel Tower jump are all quality and memorable moments in the franchise. Hey, we even learn that Bond can make a mean quiche.

    AVTAK needs some loving and I'm happy to give it some!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    On a similar theme, please see the excellent book linked below by Andrew McNess on AVTAK:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/James-Bond-Our-Sights-Close/dp/1465382380/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377090801&sr=1-1
  • Posts: 5,634
    you know, I think I'm due another watch of this sometime soon

    I've berated it to death and castigated it heavily, but for all it's faults, there is some fun to be had. Christopher Walken always seems wasted in this, the Zorin character seemed a bit over the top sometimes, but he did an OK job of things, or was he really one of the best, of a poor lot ?

    I realize this is an appreciation thread for it, so no sense in giving out any more condemnations. Maybe Tanya Roberts Sutton isn't as bad as we've always believed, and Moore despite the advancing years, did what he could and provides some serious moments, even if you do see more of his stunt double than the actor himself
  • Posts: 10
    Hope no one minds me bumping this.

    Decided to watch AVTAK tonight. My thoughts based on my third or fourth watch - or whatever it is:

    I think Moore, despite his obvious age issue - although I don't feel it is an issue personally, acts the role well again. You quickly forget that he's 58, and it's arguable that he looked younger in AVTAK than in Octopussy. Walken is excellent as Zorin, and you really see how ruthless and psychotic he is (the scene where he massacres hundreds of his workers is a good example). Unlike some of the villains, he also had a good, well-developed backstory. May Day is a fairly decent henchwoman, I think - certainly more imposing than some in the series. Macnee as Godfrey Tibbett is good as well - he has a rapport with Moore that works well. Someone else mentioned it in this thread, but I would have liked to see him become a more permanent fixture. The majority of the other characters may be a bit two-dimensional but there's nothing extreme, in my opinion.

    The locations are very good as well - the scenes in Paris and San Francisco are, in the main, well done. Can't really complain on that front.

    The plot's reasonably straightforward - could have done with a bit more development admittedly but it's decent enough.

    It also has one of my favourite Bond theme songs, and John Barry's score is superb - probably his best since OHMSS imo.

    I'd probably give it a 7/10 - a very decent entry to the series that has value in repeat viewings. It's not quite up there with the best in the series but I think it's been seriously underrated by some, who perhaps haven't given it a chance based on Moore's age, which I think is unfair given that I think TMWTGG was a worse Moore film.


  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Radebe wrote:
    I think Moore, despite his obvious age issue - although I don't feel it is an issue personally, acts the role well again. You quickly forget that he's 58, and it's arguable that he looked younger in AVTAK than in Octopussy.
    Of course he does. He's a true professional as always. The problem is that the script calls for him to be LALD Roger Moore when he's clearly past that point. He sleeps with more women in AVTAK than in any other of his adventures. He looks a little tired in some of his action scenes. His stunt double was clearly visible multiple times. He gave a good effort on the Golden Gate set though.

    Look, I love Sir Rog but I blame Cubby for not moving on when it was more than obvious that we needed a new actor in the role. AVTAK was my first cinematic Bond experience and it will always hold a special place in my heart. It's like a relationship that has reached the end but both parties aren't quite ready to admit that it's over yet. Cubby, you should have known better. Sorry, Sir Rog.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Radebe wrote:
    Hope no one minds me bumping this.

    Decided to watch AVTAK tonight. My thoughts based on my third or fourth watch - or whatever it is:

    I think Moore, despite his obvious age issue - although I don't feel it is an issue personally, acts the role well again. You quickly forget that he's 58, and it's arguable that he looked younger in AVTAK than in Octopussy. Walken is excellent as Zorin, and you really see how ruthless and psychotic he is (the scene where he massacres hundreds of his workers is a good example). Unlike some of the villains, he also had a good, well-developed backstory. May Day is a fairly decent henchwoman, I think - certainly more imposing than some in the series. Macnee as Godfrey Tibbett is good as well - he has a rapport with Moore that works well. Someone else mentioned it in this thread, but I would have liked to see him become a more permanent fixture. The majority of the other characters may be a bit two-dimensional but there's nothing extreme, in my opinion.

    The locations are very good as well - the scenes in Paris and San Francisco are, in the main, well done. Can't really complain on that front.

    The plot's reasonably straightforward - could have done with a bit more development admittedly but it's decent enough.

    It also has one of my favourite Bond theme songs, and John Barry's score is superb - probably his best since OHMSS imo.

    I'd probably give it a 7/10 - a very decent entry to the series that has value in repeat viewings. It's not quite up there with the best in the series but I think it's been seriously underrated by some, who perhaps haven't given it a chance based on Moore's age, which I think is unfair given that I think TMWTGG was a worse Moore film.

    I would probably agree with you there, although I think his score for MR is also excellent.
  • Posts: 401
    The thing about AVTAK is, for me, it had potential to be a very good Bond film. While I wouldn't say it's the worst in the series, the 2 main issues I have with it are;

    1. Roger Moore's age
    2. The ridiculous goofy humor

    Other than than, it had a lot going for it. The plot is a fun over the top concept, Christopher Walken was basically born to be a Bond villain, Grace Jones was memorable enough henchwoman, and the score is pretty great. If it had starred Dalton, I really think it could have been one of the better Bond films.
  • Posts: 224
    I am sure that this will cause controversy, naturally, but I would like to reach out to those (perhaps the minority) who rank A View to a Kill highly or just plain enjoyed it. A View to a Kill for me is definitely in my top 5, and I find that it is one of the most re-watchable Bond films. It has one of the best title songs, villain, henchwoman and locations (San Francisco is just a beautiful city). And even if it has its flaws (which Bond doesn't? Which film for that matter?), A View to a Kill is, along with Goldfinger and The Spy Who Loved Me, a fun Bond, which to me is what they should be. And please don't mention Moore's age, as I'm sure we are all tired of hearing that statement....

    You, sir, are spot on. The only part of the movie I disliked was Grace Jones. What were they thinking when they hired her?

    If you have ever heard Roger interviewed about "Bond", he has often said that his goal was to entertain moviegoers.... to transport them to Heaven where they could leave their troubles behind for a couple of hours and just enjoy themselves. Yes, one left the movie theater, after AVTAK, with a smile. The only real sad thing about AVTAK is that it was Rog's swan song.....the end of an era....the end of the "good time" Bond.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I was just wondering, I don't think I have ever seen Grace Jones talk about her experience in AVTAK. Does anyone have any clips of her discussing Bond (perhaps in an interview)?

  • The score for this film is brilliant. I think it's probably the weirdest Bond film, which isn't a bad thing.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV_wn8yk9q0
    I managed to find this clip of behind the scenes of AVTAK, but there is no Grace Jones...
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