SOLO - 'The Mystery Of The Incompetent Marketing Campaign'

11011131516

Comments

  • Posts: 686

    @NapoleonPlural

    Read the excerpt. Think I'll be getting it out the library rather than buying it; it seems an easier book to admire than love, perhaps a bit like Boyd himself going by the interview.

    It seems a hybrid of Deaver and Faulks; Deaver's meticulous attention to plot and commitment to the task in hand: good though you get the feeling Bond is just there to jump thru the writer's plot hoops and isn't in command of the situation; the author is..

    So in other words, it the typical "I have a story in the back of my head" and the author just inserts Bond in the situation, instead of coming up with a story that wraps Bond around the plot, i.e it is not "bondcentric" with the typical Bond elements?
  • edited September 2013 Posts: 7,653
    The author of the new James Bond book, says he deliberately wrote about women and African people 'not in a way Fleming would write them'.

    William Boyd, the third writer in recent years to pen a new installment to the classic spy series, said he found it difficult to read the descriptions of 'negros' and chapters entitled 'Nigger Heaven'.

    Boyd, who was born in Ghana in 1952 and spent his childhood travelling between Africa and his Scottish boarding school Gordonstoun, said: 'It's unbelievable to read now. I think if you were of that privileged upper class, born at the beginning of the 20th century, you were probably racist, sexist, right wing and anti-Semitic.'

    The writer, whose works include bestsellers such as Restless, said he admired Ian Fleming's style, but chose to write in his own way in the novel Solo, which will be published on Thursday.

    And although Boyd's 007 is in bed with a beautiful woman by page 86 of the novel, he said he had written about the spies relationships with women differently, saying of Fleming's novels: 'The sex can veer from terrible Barbara Cartland romanticism to almost sadism.

    'I deliberately wrote those scenes well, not in the way Fleming would write them,' he said.

    The 61-year-old admitted in an interview with The Times that he had had arguments with the Fleming estate, which authorised him to write the new novel, over his plot line that made Bond into an assassin.

    Boyd said he had a high regard for Fleming, having featured him as a character in his novel Any Human Heart, saying the novelist would be his specialist subject on Mastermind.

    He has written the scripts for films that have involved Bond actors Daniel Craig, Sean Connery and Pierce Brosnan.

    Boyd said he felt his style matched the sentiment of the original Bond books - although he accepted that some hard-core 007 fans might be disappointed with his decision to tweak the original writer's style, even having his spy drive a Jensen rather than a Bentley or an Aston Martin.:D :D :D

    Solo, published by Random House, is set in West Africa in 1969.

    It follows 45-year-old Bond on a freelance mission that takes him across the continent and to Europe and North America - via a multitude of drinks and two different women.

    He has previously said that he 'accepted at once' when the Ian Fleming estate asked him to write the new novel, saying it was 'incredibly exciting and stimulating - a once-in-a-lifetime challenge'.

    Boyd is the third author in recent years to write a fresh addition to the Bond series.

    Sebastian Faulkes published Devil May Care in 2008, followed by Carte Blanche by Jeffery Deaver in 2011.

    More than 100 million Bond books have been sold and the films have grossed more than $6 billion (£3.8 billion) around the world – Skyfall alone has made more than $1 billion (£637 million).

    More than half the world’s population having seen a Bond film.
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Back to the car for a moment do we think it might be aCV8 it's an earlier model but no one has said its brand new or have they?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,280
    Bentley wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Perdogg wrote:
    @dragonpol

    Ian Fleming 'was sexist, racist and sadistic': New Bond author says his book is well-written... unlike the originals

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2427871/William-Boyd-I-toned-Ian-Flemings-sexist-racist-sadistic-James-Bond.html#ixzz2fY6nLoli
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    The guy isnt making it easy for himself. He's already got an uphill struggle to win me round after such comments so the book had better be brilliant.

    The predictable bleating that Fleming was a racist because the word 'nigger' happens to appear in his books is starting to wear thin as well.

    And a Jensen? Is that really a Bondian car? More the sort of thing a guy who is playing at being Bond would drive. 70's cop show car all the way.

    Go get a copy of The Times, Ice and it may set your mind at ease — it's got part of the first chapter there.

    I shared completely the concerns of the always intelligent @TheWizardOflce.
    That said, having read the interview and extract in today's "Times" they are all but dispelled.
    I say "all but" because the choice of Jenson as a Bond car could only be made by a writer that can't drive — as any self respecting petrol head knows, Jensons were so bad they weren't even funny. They couldn't get around the corner without breaking down!
    The dreaded car doesn't appear in the opening piece which I have to say reads incredibly well so I remain extremely excited to get my sweaty little paws on it.
    One thing however that is seriously starting to rile me is this constant carping about Fleming being a racist. Frankly, it's beyond the pale. Anybody that was of reading age in 1953 would have known that the world was very different back then and so were our terms of endearment and our way of describing other cultures. One simply has to read Rider Haggard, John Buchan, Dennis Wheatley or W.E.Johns to understand this. For Fleming to be singled out as a racist because, unlike the aforementioned, he still sells well is completely unfair and doesn't do his legacy justice.
    If I get the chance, I'll challenge Boyd about this at the launch.

    Just a short post to say I very much agree. I have an article to write on alleged racism and anti-Semitism by Fleming too. I will there defend Fleming against all comers.
  • Dragonpol wrote:
    Bentley wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Perdogg wrote:
    @dragonpol

    Ian Fleming 'was sexist, racist and sadistic': New Bond author says his book is well-written... unlike the originals

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2427871/William-Boyd-I-toned-Ian-Flemings-sexist-racist-sadistic-James-Bond.html#ixzz2fY6nLoli
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    The guy isnt making it easy for himself. He's already got an uphill struggle to win me round after such comments so the book had better be brilliant.

    The predictable bleating that Fleming was a racist because the word 'nigger' happens to appear in his books is starting to wear thin as well.

    And a Jensen? Is that really a Bondian car? More the sort of thing a guy who is playing at being Bond would drive. 70's cop show car all the way.

    Go get a copy of The Times, Ice and it may set your mind at ease — it's got part of the first chapter there.

    I shared completely the concerns of the always intelligent @TheWizardOflce.
    That said, having read the interview and extract in today's "Times" they are all but dispelled.
    I say "all but" because the choice of Jenson as a Bond car could only be made by a writer that can't drive — as any self respecting petrol head knows, Jensons were so bad they weren't even funny. They couldn't get around the corner without breaking down!
    The dreaded car doesn't appear in the opening piece which I have to say reads incredibly well so I remain extremely excited to get my sweaty little paws on it.
    One thing however that is seriously starting to rile me is this constant carping about Fleming being a racist. Frankly, it's beyond the pale. Anybody that was of reading age in 1953 would have known that the world was very different back then and so were our terms of endearment and our way of describing other cultures. One simply has to read Rider Haggard, John Buchan, Dennis Wheatley or W.E.Johns to understand this. For Fleming to be singled out as a racist because, unlike the aforementioned, he still sells well is completely unfair and doesn't do his legacy justice.
    If I get the chance, I'll challenge Boyd about this at the launch.

    Just a short post to say I very much agree. I have an article to write on alleged racism and anti-Semitism by Fleming too. I will there defend Fleming against all comers.

    Go for it @Dragonpol. Those of us that were around at the time know that the "racist" idea is a posthumous misinterpretation of events. If you read any author writing thriller fiction, at the same time or before Fleming,that involved other cultures - that was the language of the day. Nothing more, nothing less and certainly no indicator of racism.
    Violence, sadism, sex and snobbery - certainly but that was his stock in trade and whats wrong with that?
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I get where Boyd is coming from but as others have pointed out, the social attitudes Fleming conveyed through his work was essentially the norm of the time; it wasn't right but it was the norm and its unfair to call and single out Fleming on it.
  • Posts: 7,653
    doubleoego wrote:
    I get where Boyd is coming from but as others have pointed out, the social attitudes Fleming conveyed through his work was essentially the norm of the time; it wasn't right but it was the norm and its unfair to call and single out Fleming on it.

    To be honest with reference to all authors of Flemings time and before, Flemings hero is one of the few that is still relevant today and as such does need some rethinking from his version of the '50's & 60's. And indeed some of Flemings ideas do not ring true in our times but having a new story written does not mean that everything Fleming did should be blindly copied, it is nice to see some other influences as well who does cringe under some of Flemings ideas. The one thing is important that 007 still is a mans' man and that his passion for certain things remain.
    And as for the car if the Saint did drive it, it should be good enough for 007. imho ;)

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    SaintMark wrote:
    And as for the car if the Saint did drive it, it should be good enough for 007. imho ;)

    Totally refute this. I don't mind the Saint but at the end of the day he's just a poor man's Bond.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    For me, the Saint was his own particular swashbuckling adventurer, an amateur, great fun; not like Bond, no.

    As for cars, as long as they are fast and look sleek and Bond looks good driving in them, the author can choose different kinds. Why not?
  • Posts: 7,653
    SaintMark wrote:
    And as for the car if the Saint did drive it, it should be good enough for 007. imho ;)

    Totally refute this. I don't mind the Saint but at the end of the day he's just a poor man's Bond.

    The Saint has been an influence on Ian Fleming which is easily explained if you know that the Saints first book dates back to 1928!!
    The cinematic 007 has in my humble opinion borrowed far more from the Saints flair and style that the books by Fleming ever did. But the Saint among other hero's like Bulldog Drummond, Richard Hannay were the earlier adventurers and there was nothing in any poor mans version about them.
    The Saint was already gracing the big screen when 007 was not even invented.



  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I am enjoying The Sain'ts Getaway just now. :)
  • Posts: 7,653
    I am enjoying The Sain'ts Getaway just now. :)

    The pre-war ones are great fun and rather brilliant imho.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    SaintMark wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    And as for the car if the Saint did drive it, it should be good enough for 007. imho ;)

    Totally refute this. I don't mind the Saint but at the end of the day he's just a poor man's Bond.

    The Saint has been an influence on Ian Fleming which is easily explained if you know that the Saints first book dates back to 1928!!
    The cinematic 007 has in my humble opinion borrowed far more from the Saints flair and style that the books by Fleming ever did. But the Saint among other hero's like Bulldog Drummond, Richard Hannay were the earlier adventurers and there was nothing in any poor mans version about them.
    The Saint was already gracing the big screen when 007 was not even invented.



    Everything you say is true and I am perfectly aware of how much the Saint predates Bond. I've only read a few Saint books but (and not claiming that Fleming is great literature here) they seem distinctly in the pulp fiction camp whereas Bonds life and capers seem rather more grandiose.

    I've no doubt that the Saint was an influence on Bond (although I've never heard this as coming from Fleming directly as I have the influence of Hannay and Drummond) and my exposure is largely through the Rog and Ogilvy TV series but Simon Templar always comes across as Bond on a budget to me.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited September 2013 Posts: 12,480
    Indeed early Saint books are fun. I love Fleming and I love Charteris. But I don't mix the two. The Saint has never seemed a "poor man's Bond" to me. Certainly started in different eras.

    @TheWizardOfIce, you see the tv version of The Saint as "Bond on a budget," and maybe others have thought that, too. I did enjoy watching The Saint on tv, grew up with it. but I never thought of it as that. I just didn't put the two together in my mind or feelings about them. I also loved It Takes A Thief with Robert Wagner.

    Anyway, I enjoy all 4 5: the book Saint, the tv show Saint (and Val Kilmer's Saint, too, by the way - so a film Saint, yes), the book Bond, and the film Bond.
  • Posts: 7,653
    SaintMark wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    And as for the car if the Saint did drive it, it should be good enough for 007. imho ;)

    Totally refute this. I don't mind the Saint but at the end of the day he's just a poor man's Bond.

    The Saint has been an influence on Ian Fleming which is easily explained if you know that the Saints first book dates back to 1928!!
    The cinematic 007 has in my humble opinion borrowed far more from the Saints flair and style that the books by Fleming ever did. But the Saint among other hero's like Bulldog Drummond, Richard Hannay were the earlier adventurers and there was nothing in any poor mans version about them.
    The Saint was already gracing the big screen when 007 was not even invented.



    Everything you say is true and I am perfectly aware of how much the Saint predates Bond. I've only read a few Saint books but (and not claiming that Fleming is great literature here) they seem distinctly in the pulp fiction camp whereas Bonds life and capers seem rather more grandiose.

    I've no doubt that the Saint was an influence on Bond (although I've never heard this as coming from Fleming directly as I have the influence of Hannay and Drummond) and my exposure is largely through the Rog and Ogilvy TV series but Simon Templar always comes across as Bond on a budget to me.

    Well I kind am firstly a fan of the Saint (Leslie Charteris) and have read all books and have quite a few first editions (US & UK) and some really early books, most of the movies (George Sanders was suave before Sean came around!). The tv shows by Roger were in some way a softening of the character of Simon and indeed the scenery was sometimes awqefull. With Ogilvy they went on location and the feel was immediately different and far more Saintlike for me, and one episode was the cause of some problems (Black September about the Saint being involved in hunting down some Palastine terrorists). But the Ogilvy show was really done a bad turn by way to few episodes. Ogilvy's Saint was also closer to the original character than Rogers version.

    Dutton was fun, I did like the Jensen car, a wee bit more effort could have been put into it.

    And the movie had its moments but a director re-inventing an established character and an actor getting into that action too made the movie go really of the rails. Too bad as the character still has a lot to offer.

  • Maybe the Jensen is an operational vehicle like the Austins, Sunbeam and Aston Martin of the Fleming books.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited September 2013 Posts: 12,480
    I have not seen any other Saint films or tv shows; I'd like to.
    I like the film, The Saint, because: 1) it is beautifully shot, 2) I like the lead actors a lot, and 3) it was just fun. Not a great film, not a film that portrayed the Saint as the character I really knew from before, but enjoyable nonetheless.

    Going back on topic: I am dying to read a genuine review of Solo; as of today, there seem to be none out there yet. If someone finds a full review, please let us know.
  • edited September 2013 Posts: 2,599
    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/the-inner-life-of-james-bond/309457/
    “He smiled grimly to himself, slid out of bed and walked naked into the en suite bathroom. The Dorchester had the most powerful showers in London.” This is Bond done right. The silky luxury, the sardonic virility, and then the ludicrous assertion of special knowledge—as if the relative strength of hotel showers has been tested all over London. (By Q Branch, perhaps.)

    The most powerful showers in London...

    ...LOL. Very Fleming!

    The general consensus over at 'The Book Bond' website is that the Jensen is a good car and an appropriate choice. Personally, I don't like the shape, although aesthetically, it does exude some elegance. Not in spades though. As for the reliability and handling, I can't comment on this but the posters on the other website, as I said, speak positively of this facet.
  • Posts: 267
    SaintMark wrote:
    And as for the car if the Saint did drive it, it should be good enough for 007. imho ;)

    Totally refute this. I don't mind the Saint but at the end of the day he's just a poor man's Bond.

    Renowned Bondologists - don't fall out but there is yet another connection with The Saint.
    Jensen actually manufactured the beautiful Volvo P1800 coupe under licence.
    Unfortunately, under their stewardship it used to fall apart and it was only when Volvo took back responsibility and fully built the car in Sweden that it became the iconic vehicle we know and love.

  • edited September 2013 Posts: 512
    Read the excerpt. Think I'll be getting it out the library rather than buying it; it seems an easier book to admire than love, perhaps a bit like Boyd himself going by the interview.

    It seems a hybrid of Deaver and Faulks; Deaver's meticulous attention to plot and commitment to the task in hand: good though you get the feeling Bond is just there to jump thru the writer's plot hoops and isn't in command of the situation; the author is. At least, unlike Faulks, you don't get the feeling he's just taking the money and - oh it's not that much dish is it? - racing for the final chapter, making it up as he goes along to fulfil the contract he made over a late-night bottle of Bourban and a mid-life crisis.

    But as with Faulks, the book is set at the end of the 60s with an ageing Bond and all the descriptions we've had oft before of his failing prowess and faculties and so on. Though Boyd is writing as himself, some of the brand names mentioned seems intrusive and a Fleming pastiche. The whole thing of Fleming being racist and anti-Semitic is a bore, I mean we don't get any money grabbing hook nosed Jews as villains do we? The villains are foreigners often but not really demanded; they have an exulted status like ill-loved school teachers. But we do get the Jewish stereotype in Orwell's Down and Out in Paris and London; still that's okay cos Orwell's a much-loved lefty. And as with Faulks, we get the sense Boys is a lefty Guardian reader who intrinsically disapproves of Bond and his world and wants to take him down a peg or two, he's not really rooting for Bond. And, as with both authors, the sex seems a bit cringey, I found. It's like you don't want to get turned on by it.

    Ultimately I felt there was cold heart at the base of Boyd's world; Fleming was a blend of pulp fiction, travel journalism and guilty pleasure, with a pseudo-Christian traditional basis. It was as comfortable as your old slippers, sitting in the pews in your local Church on Christmas morn, a new Marlborough wine you've found, or your favourite clip of online pornography, all strangely reassuring, a blend of traditional and racy in a controlled environment.

    Very good observation about the books being written by Guardianista lefties these days. This is no doubt the same reason IFP didn't want Bond assassinating people 'Ooh we can't have Bond killing anyone in cold blood. Especially if that person happens to be black', which given the book is set in Africa I would say is a likely eventuality.

    What we need writing Bond is a good old fashioned hedonist (I dont mean an Irving Walsh or Jack Kerouac - just someone who enjoys good living) with right wing tendencies and a love of Empire. And is not ashamed of it.

    For some inexplicable reason Boris Johnson sprang into my mind!

    No need to bring Christianity into it though - there's no evidence in Fleming of Bond having any faith in a religion except the vestiges of his upbringing that all of us brought up in a Christian country are all saddled with alas. And every pew I've ever sat in was excruciating - but maybe that's just a Catholic guilt thing? Maybe other demonination's pews are as comfortable as bathing in honey?

    Nice line about the porn clip by the way!

    Well, I don't make a big deal about Christianity, save that Bond is a bit of a modern-day St George slaying the dragon. More, being created at that time, the UK was more a churchgoing nation with a Christian base as you suggest; it's in that context that Bond's dodgy lifestyle - promiscuous-ish premartial sex and sensual self-indulgence - is created. Fleming had some immoral sexual sado mascochistic traits, but these would have had added spice and naughtiness in such a strait-laced world. And in one bio of Fleming he does reference Christianity, when dying, he asked someone to light a candle to take away the pain, and when they didso he admitted it helped, saying 'When you've been brought up with it (Christian belief), it never goes away.'

    As for sitting in a pew on Christmas morn, I've never done that, just coming up with some cosy, uplifting traditional thing, could be going for a walk after Christmas meal across the Highlands after the Queen's speech but before the sun sets.

    It's odd though, I mean Bond is all about racy sex, but I don't want to read about him getting a blowjob, it just seems a bit wrong, y'know? And either in literature or film he never has, of course. Or dished it out,, either, it's like it would represent the final nail in the coffin of the Empire...
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Solange came very close to juggling those golden balls...damn you Dimitrios!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Boyd: 'It's unbelievable to read now. I think if you were of that privileged upper class, born at the beginning of the 20th century, you were probably racist, sexist, right wing and anti-Semitic.'


    Oh, for Fleming's sake, here we go again. Just because an author reflected the times in their work and used dialects, terms, and wrote characters with the beliefs of the period does not necessarily mean they are themselves prejudiced.

    And I love Boyd's big talk about how he "deliberately" wrote scenes "well", as if Fleming was nothing more than a gossip columnist at his prestigious feet. Give me a freaking break. Fleming had syntax that at times made Shakespeare look like an amateur.
  • Posts: 267
    Boyd: 'It's unbelievable to read now. I think if you were of that privileged upper class, born at the beginning of the 20th century, you were probably racist, sexist, right wing and anti-Semitic.'


    Oh, for Fleming's sake, here we go again. Just because an author reflected the times in their work and used dialects, terms, and wrote characters with the beliefs of the period does not necessarily mean they are themselves prejudiced.

    And I love Boyd's big talk about how he "deliberately" wrote scenes "well", as if Fleming was nothing more than a gossip columnist at his prestigious feet. Give me a freaking break. Fleming had syntax that at times made Shakespeare look like an amateur.

    Couldn't agree more old chap.
    All this racism malarkey is extremely ill founded and very annoying. Frankly given Boyd's age (61), he should know better and as you quite rightly point out, he used the language of the times and was indeed a highly literate writer. I was driving to Cornwall the other day, listening to Bill Nighy read Moonraker, and I was reminded what a great writer he was. The way he described the atmosphere in Blades is just remarkable.
    And frankly, if he was such a racist, why did he spend so much time in Jamaica and why did he make Quarrel, a black man, Bond's co-conspirator and why did he have his hero strike such a friendship with Tiger Tanaka? Not the work of a man of prejudice.
    Happily there are those of us that will defend him to the death and who wish all those politically correct Johnies would find something else to read!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Bentley wrote:
    Boyd: 'It's unbelievable to read now. I think if you were of that privileged upper class, born at the beginning of the 20th century, you were probably racist, sexist, right wing and anti-Semitic.'


    Oh, for Fleming's sake, here we go again. Just because an author reflected the times in their work and used dialects, terms, and wrote characters with the beliefs of the period does not necessarily mean they are themselves prejudiced.

    And I love Boyd's big talk about how he "deliberately" wrote scenes "well", as if Fleming was nothing more than a gossip columnist at his prestigious feet. Give me a freaking break. Fleming had syntax that at times made Shakespeare look like an amateur.

    Couldn't agree more old chap.
    All this racism malarkey is extremely ill founded and very annoying. Frankly given Boyd's age (61), he should know better and as you quite rightly point out, he used the language of the times and was indeed a highly literate writer. I was driving to Cornwall the other day, listening to Bill Nighy read Moonraker, and I was reminded what a great writer he was. The way he described the atmosphere in Blades is just remarkable.
    And frankly, if he was such a racist, why did he spend so much time in Jamaica and why did he make Quarrel, a black man, Bond's co-conspirator and why did he have his hero strike such a friendship with Tiger Tanaka? Not the work of a man of prejudice.
    Happily there are those of us that will defend him to the death and who wish all those politically correct Johnies would find something else to read!

    I'll toast to that! :)>-
  • edited September 2013 Posts: 2,599
    "It's odd though, I mean Bond is all about racy sex, but I don't want to read about him getting a blowjob, it just seems a bit wrong, y'know?"

    @NapoleonPlural I agree. Any mention of oral sex would be in ill taste in a Bond book.

    It doesn't bother me too much that Boyd has spoken somewhat negatively of Fleming, we all know Mr Ian was a master in his craft who got it right most of the time so who cares what anyone else says. Well, I don't really and this goes for anybody, not just Fleming. At the same time though, what he is saying about Fleming in terms of being able to write better or atleast in regard to the sex scenes, isn't necessary and going by what others are saying in terms of the xenophobic comments, unjustified. It always struck me that Fleming was slightly more racist than the average person at the time but I really don't know for sure. Certainly he and others used the term "nigger" etc. but if I remember correctly, did he not talk slightly adversely about certain races by making rash, less than positive generalisations? I remember him making unfavourable generalisations about the Swiss in 'Thrilling Cities'. Something along the lines that all the Swiss are only interested in money. That's not really racist though, so not a great example. :)
  • edited September 2013 Posts: 686
    "Politically, Fleming is a conservative in all respect but one. His attitude towards race lies on the far left wing of fifties liberalism." - Ken Follet, Live and Let Die, Folio Edition, 2007
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,280
    Perdogg wrote:
    "Politically, Fleming is a conservative in all respect but one. His attitude towards race lies on the far left wing of fifties liberalism." - Ken Follet, Live and Let Die, Folio Edition, 2007

    Interesting quote there that is quite surprising in itself. I will have to invest in that Folio edition of LALD soon. I've seen Ken Follet speak about Fleming in a TV programme called 'The Real James Bond' which was broadcast on Channel 4 in March 2002.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,280
    Bounine wrote:
    "It's odd though, I mean Bond is all about racy sex, but I don't want to read about him getting a blowjob, it just seems a bit wrong, y'know?"

    @NapoleonPlural I agree. Any mention of oral sex would be in ill taste in a Bond book.

    It doesn't bother me too much that Boyd has spoken somewhat negatively of Fleming, we all know Mr Ian was a master in his craft who got it right most of the time so who cares what anyone else says. Well, I don't really and this goes for anybody, not just Fleming. At the same time though, what he is saying about Fleming in terms of being able to write better or atleast in regard to the sex scenes, isn't necessary and going by what others are saying in terms of the xenophobic comments, unjustified. It always struck me that Fleming was slightly more racist than the average person at the time but I really don't know for sure. Certainly he and others used the term "nigger" etc. but if I remember correctly, did he not talk slightly adversely about certain races by making rash, less than positive generalisations? I remember him making unfavourable generalisations about the Swiss in 'Thrilling Cities'. Something along the lines that all the Swiss are only interested in money. That's not really racist though, so not a great example. :)

    Well oral sex by Nina Bibikova is mentioned in John Gardner's The Man From Barbarossa (1991) in a veiled way in the novel if you care to read it, so Bond novels have already went "there" if you will.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Hardcore fans might be upset in the direction Boyd is taking Bond? Aren't hardcore fans the ones you should be targeting?
  • Dragonpol wrote:
    Perdogg wrote:
    "Politically, Fleming is a conservative in all respect but one. His attitude towards race lies on the far left wing of fifties liberalism." - Ken Follet, Live and Let Die, Folio Edition, 2007

    Interesting quote there that is quite surprising in itself. I will have to invest in that Folio edition of LALD soon. I've seen Ken Follet speak about Fleming in a TV programme called 'The Real James Bond' which was broadcast on Channel 4 in March 2002.

    Follet get's it Right.
    Fleming did a great deal to open up the world to a post war population. His books were often described as travelogues and certainly he did a huge amount to introduce a little traveled public - myself included - to fare away places and exotic destinations that we went on to visit either for business or vacation.
    His work was very much the work of a man with an open mind and a terrific zest for life - neither are the hallmarks of a racist and I can only wonder at the intellect of those that make such accusations. Perhaps they've never read any other novels from Fleming's era.
    It's always extremely annoying when people launch these assaults on those that aren't here to defend themselves - thankfully he has a Praetorian Guard of Flemingistas to leap to his defence!

Sign In or Register to comment.