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The Living Daylights vs. Licence to Kill

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  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Dalton sucks the life out of everything. he isn't even trying. why can't I vote Neither?
    Well just vote for LTK to even things up then Jinx !

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 14,003
    Or you could just not vote.
  • JinxJinx
    edited August 2011 Posts: 102
    done. at least Dalton isn't playing a ferris wheel rapist in LTK.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Nice one and well said !!
  • GeorgeLazenbyGeorgeLazenby
    Posts: 295
    Neither are that great (though TLD impresses me more than it used to) however TLD is easily the better film of the two...maybe that could be the default haha.
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    I'd give it to LTK. It has some flaws but has a interesting look at Bond avenging a friend in a way that is more important that the "sacrificial lamb" subplots of other movies. Davi is an excellent villian, Bond infiltrating Sanchez's organization is great, and at the end you really get the sense that Bond has come to the end of a journey and has *earned* his victory. Dalton sitting on the rock, exhausted, looking like hell (especially after the not-a-hair-out-of-place Moore years) is one of my favourite moments for the character in the series. And to see Moneypenny and Q looking after and helping Bond (continuing the theme of real friendship) was wonderful.
    Thanks for mentioning that @LordFlashheart. Although I like both films, the finale of TLD can't compare with the finale of LTK. After chasing Sanchez for 2 hours and finally killing him, Dalton bruised and bloody limping over to nearby rock, sitting down, taking a deep breath, and taking it in will always be one of my favorite moments in the series. It's an instance were I can point my finger and say "That's James Bond". Plus Michael Kamen's underrated score really shines here. I might get chewed out for this but that somber guitar rift is IMHO one of the best musical cues in a Bond film. Again that's just what I think.
  • SJK91SJK91
    Posts: 1,310
    The Living Daylights is the better of the two and is a very solid, underrated film. It's a very strong spy story and while Dalton does balk an occasional one liner, he makes a very good James Bond. The Living Daylights has grown on me immensely.

    License to Kill was the first Bond film I ever saw so it does have a special place in my heart. The villains are better in LTK but that is about all the film has in favor when compared to TLD.

    So, Daylights for me.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    I'd give it to LTK. It has some flaws but has a interesting look at Bond avenging a friend in a way that is more important that the "sacrificial lamb" subplots of other movies. Davi is an excellent villian, Bond infiltrating Sanchez's organization is great, and at the end you really get the sense that Bond has come to the end of a journey and has *earned* his victory. Dalton sitting on the rock, exhausted, looking like hell (especially after the not-a-hair-out-of-place Moore years) is one of my favourite moments for the character in the series. And to see Moneypenny and Q looking after and helping Bond (continuing the theme of real friendship) was wonderful.
    Thanks for mentioning that @LordFlashheart. Although I like both films, the finale of TLD can't compare with the finale of LTK. After chasing Sanchez for 2 hours and finally killing him, Dalton bruised and bloody limping over to nearby rock, sitting down, taking a deep breath, and taking it in will always be one of my favorite moments in the series. It's an instance were I can point my finger and say "That's James Bond". Plus Michael Kamen's underrated score really shines here. I might get chewed out for this but that somber guitar rift is IMHO one of the best musical cues in a Bond film. Again that's just what I think.
    Excellent post Double Ohhh, one of the greatest endings to the villain and you're damn skippy that Dalton was all that as Bond at that moment.
  • BounineBounine
    edited August 2011 Posts: 2,599
    Ah, it warms my heart to see how many people on this thread support LTK. I was shot down a few times for expressing my love for this film a few years ago. :-)) "A warmed over Miami Vice episode" is how one person described it.

    As much as I like LTK though, I have to say that TLD is the better film. I just wish it had atleast around 15 minutes less action and they'd decided to leave out the cello case slay ride scene (Eon lacked the discipline to fully stay away from the Roger Moore homages). :) It's also the last Bond film that is scored by John Barry. I don't think they'll ever be another Bond film that sounds as good as the TLD does.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    I've said for years that Tim Dalton was the closest to Flemings original character, he did the research and adapted to the role for the first film, that was a nice turn after Moore playing the fool in the last movie, (a 57 year old Bold hanging on the top of the Golden Gate Bridge, are you for real), The Living Daylights was a bit technical, boring sometimes, Koskov got right on my nerves, Brad Whittaker was a terrible bad guy, and Maryam D'abo one of the most forgettable and lukewarm women in the entire franchise, Tanya Roberts gets that honor in A View To A Kill

    1989 saw License to Kill, which was a major flop, a bit too violent, Bond goes renegade and resigns from her majestys goverment, saw that all before in OHMSS

    Shark tanks in a bond film, no surely not, but Robert Davi's sanchez was a worthwhile villian

    One of the weaker entries, but Dalton for me, closest bond to Flemings original

  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    I've said for years that Tim Dalton was the closest to Flemings original character, he did the research and adapted to the role for the first film, that was a nice turn after Moore playing the fool in the last movie, (a 57 year old Bold hanging on the top of the Golden Gate Bridge, are you for real), The Living Daylights was a bit technical, boring sometimes, Koskov got right on my nerves, Brad Whittaker was a terrible bad guy, and Maryam D'abo one of the most forgettable and lukewarm women in the entire franchise, Tanya Roberts gets that honor in A View To A Kill

    1989 saw License to Kill, which was a major flop, a bit too violent, Bond goes renegade and resigns from her majestys goverment, saw that all before in OHMSS

    Shark tanks in a bond film, no surely not, but Robert Davi's sanchez was a worthwhile villian

    One of the weaker entries, but Dalton for me, closest bond to Flemings original

    LTK was far from a flop. Adjusted for inflation it was the lowest grossing in the series and a dissapointment for Bond standards but far from a "major flop". It cost 32 mil to make and grossed alittle over 156 million dollars. That doesn't sound like a flop to me.



  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    LTK was far from a flop. Adjusted for inflation it was the lowest grossing in the series and a dissapointment for Bond standards but far from a "major flop". It cost 32 mil to make and grossed alittle over 156 million dollars. That doesn't sound like a flop to me.
    Indeed. LTK probably turned in a higher profit percentage-wise than higher grossing Bond films that cost a lot more to make.

  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    edited August 2011 Posts: 1,778
    LTK was far from a flop. Adjusted for inflation it was the lowest grossing in the series and a dissapointment for Bond standards but far from a "major flop". It cost 32 mil to make and grossed alittle over 156 million dollars. That doesn't sound like a flop to me.
    Indeed. LTK probably turned in a higher profit percentage-wise than higher grossing Bond films that cost a lot more to make.

    How right you are @PrinceKamelKhan. Take QOS for instance. It's the second highest grossing Bond film, 1st highest in North America, taking in nearly 600 mil but took 200 mil to make. Sure making 3 times your budget is always nice but LTK made nearly 5 times its budget. BTW I loved QOS. Im seemingly the only person on this site that does.
  • TheBondFanTheBondFan
    Posts: 822
    LTK for Dario, Sanchez, and the girls.
    TLD for less cruelty and violence, more James Bond in it.
  • TheBondFanTheBondFan
    Posts: 822
    Can't decide. TLD just got me bored sometimes.
    LTK- too violent, but good characters.
    TLD- good story
    LTK-Intriguing
  • JinxJinx
    edited August 2011 Posts: 102
    LTK for less ferris wheel rape. LTK for Sanchez's cute iguana.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    edited August 2011 Posts: 7,585
    LTK for less ferris wheel rape. LTK for Sanchez's cute iguana.
    You keep saying rape. Why? They only kissed as far as I remember. And Bond has a history of taking advantage of girls which has ultimately got them killed or put them in danger. Bond kissing Kara on the ferris wheel did neither. Bond kept his tux on.
    After chasing Sanchez for 2 hours and finally killing him, Dalton bruised and bloody limping over to nearby rock, sitting down, taking a deep breath, and taking it in will always be one of my favorite moments in the series.
    Yep Bond bruised and blooded, Leiter half eaten by a shark. A couple of days later they are chatting about a fishing trip. Della isn't even cold in her grave (maybe not even buried yet) and the unbruised and unblooded guys are off for a rollicking good time.

    Della's dad (who I feel most sorry for) even said the marriage was a bad idea. How right he was!

    ;-)
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited August 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I feel sorry for Della. She seemed to genuinely like James as a friend and yet she's pretty much forgotten at the end of the film. Was it really too much to simply have Felix look at a pic of Della from his hospital bed?

    Felix was talking like he went in for a simple knee operation ;)

    Come to think of it he probably wouldn't have been a very good hubby anyway. At the beginning he seems more excited about catching Sanchez than getting married.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    Precisely why Hendison's LALD performance is a trillion miles better than in LTK.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited August 2011 Posts: 11,189
    It's not his performance that's the problem. It's the writing. They obviously wanted to wrap up the story ASAP.

    In regard to the "rape" comment I wouldn't go as far as that. That word is more appropriate for Connery/Pussy Galore. However @jinx did make me chuckle.

    The ferris wheel stops
    "what's going on? Why do we stop?"
    "I arranged it! We're going to be here all night"
    (comes closer to Kara)
    "don't" Stay away from me you moody thesp" ;)
    "don't think just let it happen"
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2011 Posts: 15,723
    It's not his performance that's the problem. It's the writing. They obviously wanted to wrap up the story ASAP.
    LTK's ending is just huge rubbish. Everyone endured so much pain and violence for 2 hours, but the films on such a campy happy-ending... It's like everyone had put on rose-tinted glasses for the last 5 minutes. And the winking fish.... Oh the horror ! LTK's ending was terribly rushed. It's as if EON was telling the audience 'Don't worry, the series will return to campy, OTT fun the next time 'round.'
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I do like "if you asked me to though".
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    Yes, I liked that too. But Dalton had a near perfect 2 movie tenure, and it all went down the drain in the final 5 minutes of LTK.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited August 2011 Posts: 13,356
    Yes, I liked that too. But Dalton had a near perfect 2 movie tenure, and it all went down the drain in the final 5 minutes of LTK.
    That's because we all know what's coming next. ;-)
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    It's not his performance that's the problem. It's the writing. They obviously wanted to wrap up the story ASAP.
    LTK's ending is just huge rubbish. Everyone endured so much pain and violence for 2 hours, but the films on such a campy happy-ending... It's like everyone had put on rose-tinted glasses for the last 5 minutes. And the winking fish.... Oh the horror ! LTK's ending was terribly rushed. It's as if EON was telling the audience 'Don't worry, the series will return to campy, OTT fun the next time 'round.'
    Exactly. Plus Bond picks the wrong girl. Not that it mattered too much. We'd all know he'd forget about both of them by the next film anyway.

    A better ending would've been Bond not too certain about his ability to return to MI6 to be resolved in a 3rd Dalton Bond film that (sadly) never was.

  • npaticnpatic
    Posts: 11
    LTK
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    Exactly. Plus Bond picks the wrong girl. Not that it mattered too much. We'd all know he'd forget about both of them by the next film anyway.
    Damn you Pam hater!
    A better ending would've been Bond not too certain about his ability to return to MI6 to be resolved in a 3rd Dalton Bond film that (sadly) never was.
    Yes that could have been outstanding material for a 3rd flick, not that it would have played any part in it I'm sure, such a wasted opportunity!



  • SharkBaitSharkBait
    Posts: 2,107
    License to Kill.

    TLD; a good , more traditional entry in the series. Weak villains. Drags a bit.
    License to Kill; Movie with a thriving force. Not so traditional. Better villain(s)
    The ending is more fulfilling with bloody and bruised Dalton finally getting his rest. I don't even mind the winking fish. Felix getting over Della so fast was a mistake though
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    LTK for less ferris wheel rape. LTK for Sanchez's cute iguana.
    You keep saying rape. Why? They only kissed as far as I remember. And Bond has a history of taking advantage of girls which has ultimately got them killed or put them in danger. Bond kissing Kara on the ferris wheel did neither. Bond kept his tux on.
    After chasing Sanchez for 2 hours and finally killing him, Dalton bruised and bloody limping over to nearby rock, sitting down, taking a deep breath, and taking it in will always be one of my favorite moments in the series.
    Yep Bond bruised and blooded, Leiter half eaten by a shark. A couple of days later they are chatting about a fishing trip. Della isn't even cold in her grave (maybe not even buried yet) and the unbruised and unblooded guys are off for a rollicking good time.

    Della's dad (who I feel most sorry for) even said the marriage was a bad idea. How right he was!

    ;-)
    Yeah I know it was strange but in all fairness we don't know how long the gap in time was between scenes. Oddly Dalton looks his most dashing at the end even though he should be all bruised up.

    And I liked the ending to LTK. After 2 hours of brooding and violence the film gives us a bit of a repreive and reminds us that all is right in the world. If only Felix seemed a bit more somber but hey they probably had him on all sorts of drugs.
  • Jazz007Jazz007 Minnesota
    Posts: 257
    LTK gets higher marks for villains, originality, emotion and Dalton's performance is a bit stronger - but TLD has better overall filmmaking, script, girls, music, action and locals.

    They are both close together in both quality and enjoyment value but I give TLD the slight edge....
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