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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    GE is #5 on my list at the moment,mind you i havent looked at it properly for about 12 months !!

    Its a VERY enjoyable film,drags in places,but makes up for it big time.
    A good film,and one which saved the whole franchise dont forget,so it should at least have respect.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited January 2014 Posts: 12,837
    Creasy47 wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    I think Brosnan in the GE fight scenes seems tougher than Craig does in the SF fight scenes.

    I totally agree. The SF fight scenes just didn't do it for me like the fights in CR and QoS did. Makes me worried about any fight scenes we'll get in B24 now that Mendes is back on board.

    Yeah I do think that Craig is a tougher Bond and that the fights in CR and QOS were great but when you compare the two fight scenes in SF to Bond vs Alec in GE, they don't even come close.

    I think a lot of it is down to the right director. Martin Campbell proved that he was very good at fight scenes. With Mendes I think it's one of the few things he needs to improve on.

    To be fair I don't think the SF fights were bad, far from the worst of the series, but the first two Craig films really raised the bar when it comes to fight scenes and SF failed to live up to it.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Exactly! The fight scenes in SF really lacked that visceral edge. Seriously, that Bond V Slate fight was beyond brutal and what do we get in SF? 2 shadowy ballet dancers, dancing in the moonlight. Show me the violence, Mendes! The bone-crunching, wincing kind.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    @thelivingroyale - I agree. Compared to CR and QoS, SF's fights are not in the same league, not that they are badly done mind you. I think this was a stylistic choice on part of the film-makers. In SF the fights are more stylised, showing Bond has matured and is letting his brain do the fighting, or thinking. While in CR/QoS, the fights are more brutal. That's the way I look at it anyway.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    I prefer the arresting aesthetics of SF's fights to the brutality of CR and QOS'.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,229
    I loved all the mano a mano fights in the Craig Bond movies, the more brutal ones of his previous two just like the more stylised ones of SF.
  • scheeversscheevers
    Posts: 4
    Craig's fight's in all of his Bond's film are just awesome really, the man bought back that tough side to Bond I thought that was lacking since OHMSS. You just believe Craig would rip you're head off, sadly you never got that with Moore Dalton or Brosnan.

    To even put any of Brosnan fight's up agaisn't Craig's is laughable.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    edited January 2014 Posts: 12,522
    I would say The World is Not Enough was Brosnan's best performance, but he was great in all 4. I know some find it overrated, but I think GoldenEye is a really good Bond outing still even though the others are average/weak.

    Edit: Not sure who'll consider this controversial or not, but here are my top 5 most important Bond films (as far as how important their contribution to the series was), by order of release:
    1. Dr. No
    2. Goldfinger
    3. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    4. GoldenEye
    5. Casino Royale
    Honorable Mention: From Russia with Love
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    FoxRox wrote:
    Edit: Not sure who'll consider this controversial or not, but here are my top 5 most important Bond films (as far as how important their contribution to the series was), by order of release:
    1. Dr. No
    2. Goldfinger
    3. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    4. GoldenEye
    5. Casino Royale
    Honorable Mention: From Russia with Love

    I'd go with that. I'd mention The Spy Who Loved Me in that bracket, however.

  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,522
    royale65 wrote:
    FoxRox wrote:
    Edit: Not sure who'll consider this controversial or not, but here are my top 5 most important Bond films (as far as how important their contribution to the series was), by order of release:
    1. Dr. No
    2. Goldfinger
    3. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    4. GoldenEye
    5. Casino Royale
    Honorable Mention: From Russia with Love

    I'd go with that. I'd mention The Spy Who Loved Me in that bracket, however.

    Yeah Spy Who Loved Me would earn an honorable mention for me too.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    @FoxRox - also Live And Let Die for showing that a series without Connery was possible.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,522
    @royale65 kind of, maybe an honorable mention. I think OHMSS kind of gets the nod though, because even though Lazenby was only in one film, it was the first without Connery period in the official series, and is now considered one of the greatest. But yes for full series wise, LALD deserves a mention.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited January 2014 Posts: 12,837
    scheevers wrote:
    To even put any of Brosnan fight's up agaisn't Craig's is laughable.

    Watch the skyscraper fight in SF and then watch the final fight in GE. When it comes to showing the tough side of Bond, the GE fight is better by far. More brutal and just more exciting. One of the best fights in the series. The one on the yacht isn't bad either. It's short but it's nicely done and I like how Bond wipes his face with the towel afterwardsl

    I agree that CR and probably QOS have better fights (although I'm not sure about QOS because of the editing) but SF? The fights in GE blow the fights in SF out of the water imo.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837




    I know which on I prefer and I think most people would agree with me.
  • Matt_HelmMatt_Helm
    Posts: 908
    royale65 wrote:
    FoxRox wrote:
    Edit: Not sure who'll consider this controversial or not, but here are my top 5 most important Bond films (as far as how important their contribution to the series was), by order of release:
    1. Dr. No
    2. Goldfinger
    3. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    4. GoldenEye
    5. Casino Royale
    Honorable Mention: From Russia with Love

    I'd go with that. I'd mention The Spy Who Loved Me in that bracket, however.

    So would I. I would very heavily indeed, since it is along with Goldfinger (and to my utter annoyance GE) the one most responsible that we are still having bond movies these days. To so many I have talked to Roger Moores "nothing can even touch me 007" TSWLM and GF's Aston Martin Gadgets define how they see Bond and what makes him so special for them. DCs Bond cashes in heavily on the contrast to this unique figure in the all-heroes hall of fame.
  • TubesTubes The Hebrew Hammer
    Posts: 158
    I quite liked the Patrice fight in SF, moreso than the 006/007 brawl. The latter is an absolute mess, with the camera having trouble keeping track of the combatants as they move around. Compare that to Bond/Red Grant, which continues to hold the standard for close combat in the series. While the Patrice fight isn't up to that standard either, I appreciate it's choreography and photography a lot more.

    As far as important films, Skyfall should be in the honorable mention category as well. We forget that the entire series was in jeopardy due to MGM's issues and Skyfall not only reaffirmed Bond's popularity, but arguably expanded it to new heights.
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    The Bond/Grant fight will always be the Gold standard of Bond fights. Pure class.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    @thelivingroyale, agreed. I really hope Mendes can step it up and give us better fights in B24, because when it comes to SF, I really wasn't impressed. Bond just didn't look like he could handle himself most of the time, yet he kicked everyone's ass in CR and QoS.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    Tubes wrote:
    Skyfall not only reaffirmed Bond's popularity, but arguably expanded it to new heights.
    No Craig Bond will EVER make Skyfall money again. Skyfall was all timing & promotion. A mid-range Bond catapulted to stratospheric success by Craig's steely Bond and a genuine human message, but let's stop kidding ourselves, as a BOND MOVIE it could have been so much better. Keep telling me I'm crazy to prefer Quantum Of Solace. History shall prove me correct.
    So there.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,522
    Not sure if I said this already, but it should definitely count as a controversial opinion that IMO, Lazenby is a top 3 Bond actor
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    @chrisisall, B24, 25, etc. could make the amount that SF made, but I agree in that it's my least favorite of the three, absolutely.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    I prefer the arresting aesthetics of SF's fights to the brutality of CR and QOS'.

    I agree with this. I never understood the obsession with the 'brutality' of the two previous films. I happen to think the Obanna fight is brilliant, but primarily because it feels natural and is well directed. Bond can't afford for Obanna to survive and as such despatches him in a very brutal manner. It works. With Slate, it's brutality for the sake of brutality. It's the most Bourne-like moment of the Craig films. As @Perilagu_Khan says, SF possesses an arresting aesthetic, something I feel marks Bond apart from his contemporaries. Mendes tried to inject a bit if class.

    Regards Brosnan, I love his fight work in GE and beyond (on occasion). He managed to fuse a sense of ferocity with one of nonchalance - see yacht fight in Monaco. I'm not saying this is truly Fleming, but it's something I like from my cinematic Bond. Craig moved towards this with his Casino fight in SF.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @chrisisall, B24, 25, etc. could make the amount that SF made, but I agree in that it's my least favorite of the three, absolutely.
    Well, obviously it's just a prediction based on my limited understanding of trends, but I predict that Craig's next Bond will be superiour to SF, and therefore it will make less money than SF. The one following that might set Bond in space, or have him fighting a Robocop-type foe, and then clearly it could then make SF money....
    X_X
  • Matt_HelmMatt_Helm
    Posts: 908
    chrisisall wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @chrisisall, B24, 25, etc. could make the amount that SF made, but I agree in that it's my least favorite of the three, absolutely.
    Well, obviously it's just a prediction based on my limited understanding of trends, but I predict that Craig's next Bond will be superiour to SF, and therefore it will make less money than SF. The one following that might set Bond in space, or have him fighting a Robocop-type foe, and then clearly it could then make SF money....
    X_X

    one shouldn't forget, that's the main reason why every movie out of every franchise out there is making more money then it's predecessor (doesn't matter what crap it is - I'm looking at you Iron Man 3) is the ever booming Asian market,mainly China. So Bond or not,we can expect even larger truckloads of money for the studios from whatever BS that may be coming our way in the future
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @thelivingroyale, agreed. I really hope Mendes can step it up and give us better fights in B24, because when it comes to SF, I really wasn't impressed. Bond just didn't look like he could handle himself most of the time, yet he kicked everyone's ass in CR and QoS.

    To be fair that is correct because dont forget Bond COULDNT handle himself,he was out of shape with a bad shoulder injury because of the splinted bullet,so the fact he struggled in both fights with Patrice is actually as it should be.

  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    WillyGalore wrote:
    The Bond/Grant fight will always be the Gold standard of Bond fights. Pure class.

    Totally agree with this,considering it was in 1963 as well.

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    barryt007 wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @thelivingroyale, agreed. I really hope Mendes can step it up and give us better fights in B24, because when it comes to SF, I really wasn't impressed. Bond just didn't look like he could handle himself most of the time, yet he kicked everyone's ass in CR and QoS.

    To be fair that is correct because dont forget Bond COULDNT handle himself,he was out of shape with a bad shoulder injury because of the splinted bullet,so the fact he struggled in both fights with Patrice is actually as it should be.

    "How could we forget his SHOOOULDER"? ;)
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    barryt007 wrote:
    WillyGalore wrote:
    The Bond/Grant fight will always be the Gold standard of Bond fights. Pure class.

    Totally agree with this,considering it was in 1963 as well.

    Even after 50 years, it's still so visceral and so damn brutal. You feel every punch and kick. It's a proper scrap. It's also a testament to both actors that, apart from one shot, they do their own stunts in that sequence.
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    BAIN123 wrote:
    barryt007 wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @thelivingroyale, agreed. I really hope Mendes can step it up and give us better fights in B24, because when it comes to SF, I really wasn't impressed. Bond just didn't look like he could handle himself most of the time, yet he kicked everyone's ass in CR and QoS.

    To be fair that is correct because dont forget Bond COULDNT handle himself,he was out of shape with a bad shoulder injury because of the splinted bullet,so the fact he struggled in both fights with Patrice is actually as it should be.

    "How could we forget his SHOOOULDER"? ;)

    It seems Eve knew just where to hurrrrrrrrrrrt him ;-)
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    BAIN123 wrote:
    barryt007 wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @thelivingroyale, agreed. I really hope Mendes can step it up and give us better fights in B24, because when it comes to SF, I really wasn't impressed. Bond just didn't look like he could handle himself most of the time, yet he kicked everyone's ass in CR and QoS.

    To be fair that is correct because dont forget Bond COULDNT handle himself,he was out of shape with a bad shoulder injury because of the splinted bullet,so the fact he struggled in both fights with Patrice is actually as it should be.

    "How could we forget his SHOOOULDER"? ;)

    @Wiz no longer has the best comment in the history of MI6.
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