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The appearance of the villain(s)

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  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,243
    On the subject of villains

  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    One of the reasons why I am not too keen on a Britsh actor for a villain in the next Bond movies. Although they are maybe the best actors.
  • Dragonpol2Dragonpol2 The Crazy World of Daniel Dragonpol
    Posts: 145
    Ludovico wrote:
    One of the reasons why I am not too keen on a Britsh actor for a villain in the next Bond movies. Although they are maybe the best actors.

    Well, of course they were never British in the original Fleming Bond novels, anyhow. Exotic=foreign actor. Just look at the success of Raoul Silva.
  • SlayerDarthSlayerDarth
    Posts: 26
    I think that the next Bond villain should be gaunt-faced, and look quite sickly, as this would be the perfect antithesis to their true self.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    Dragonpol2 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    One of the reasons why I am not too keen on a Britsh actor for a villain in the next Bond movies. Although they are maybe the best actors.

    Well, of course they were never British in the original Fleming Bond novels, anyhow. Exotic=foreign actor. Just look at the success of Raoul Silva.

    I always wondered how an Hispanic like Silva ended up working for MI6. I guess he only needed British nationality, maybe one of his parents or even grandparents was British.
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol2 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    One of the reasons why I am not too keen on a Britsh actor for a villain in the next Bond movies. Although they are maybe the best actors.

    Well, of course they were never British in the original Fleming Bond novels, anyhow. Exotic=foreign actor. Just look at the success of Raoul Silva.

    I always wondered how an Hispanic like Silva ended up working for MI6. I guess he only needed British nationality, maybe one of his parents or even grandparents was British.

    He doesn't have to be British to work for MI6. That philosophy goes all the way back to Kerim Bay who was head of Station T, Turkey.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    WillyGalore wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol2 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    One of the reasons why I am not too keen on a Britsh actor for a villain in the next Bond movies. Although they are maybe the best actors.

    Well, of course they were never British in the original Fleming Bond novels, anyhow. Exotic=foreign actor. Just look at the success of Raoul Silva.

    I always wondered how an Hispanic like Silva ended up working for MI6. I guess he only needed British nationality, maybe one of his parents or even grandparents was British.

    He doesn't have to be British to work for MI6. That philosophy goes all the way back to Kerim Bay who was head of Station T, Turkey.

    True. But wasn't Bey a British national?
    SlayerDarth wrote:
    I think that the next Bond villain should be gaunt-faced, and look quite sickly, as this would be the perfect antithesis to their true self.
    SlayerDarth wrote:
    I think that the next Bond villain should be gaunt-faced, and look quite sickly, as this would be the perfect antithesis to their true self.

    This could work beautifully.
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    edited January 2014 Posts: 6,396
    Ludovico wrote:
    WillyGalore wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol2 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    One of the reasons why I am not too keen on a Britsh actor for a villain in the next Bond movies. Although they are maybe the best actors.

    Well, of course they were never British in the original Fleming Bond novels, anyhow. Exotic=foreign actor. Just look at the success of Raoul Silva.

    I always wondered how an Hispanic like Silva ended up working for MI6. I guess he only needed British nationality, maybe one of his parents or even grandparents was British.

    He doesn't have to be British to work for MI6. That philosophy goes all the way back to Kerim Bay who was head of Station T, Turkey.

    True. But wasn't Bey a British national?

    His mother was English and his father Turkish and he was born in Turkey. I think he would qualify as a British National but only if he applied for citizenship.

    I guess Sadruddin (Octopussy) would be another example like Silva.
  • SlayerDarthSlayerDarth
    Posts: 26
    Ludovico wrote:
    WillyGalore wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol2 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    One of the reasons why I am not too keen on a Britsh actor for a villain in the next Bond movies. Although they are maybe the best actors.

    Well, of course they were never British in the original Fleming Bond novels, anyhow. Exotic=foreign actor. Just look at the success of Raoul Silva.

    I always wondered how an Hispanic like Silva ended up working for MI6. I guess he only needed British nationality, maybe one of his parents or even grandparents was British.

    He doesn't have to be British to work for MI6. That philosophy goes all the way back to Kerim Bay who was head of Station T, Turkey.

    True. But wasn't Bey a British national?
    SlayerDarth wrote:
    I think that the next Bond villain should be gaunt-faced, and look quite sickly, as this would be the perfect antithesis to their true self.
    SlayerDarth wrote:
    I think that the next Bond villain should be gaunt-faced, and look quite sickly, as this would be the perfect antithesis to their true self.

    This could work beautifully.

    I think so, too. Perhaps the villain could suffer from some sort of medical condition that gives him this appearance, or would it work better for the villain to just have that appearance for no particular reason at all? Either way, it would highlight the extent of their potential for evil.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited January 2014 Posts: 4,534
    Ben Kingsley sound like Ralph Fienes in Skyfall (what i like from Fienes in Skyfall and possible will be used by Bond to make fun about in future movies.), but not realy match that voice with Kinsley. Tom Hiddleston more like Fienes at the time of The Avengers with a bit of not funny over acting.. Something some ''English'' actors doing to much those days. Also Bardam and Leder did it and not always like it how Bardam did it whyle i like Ledger more as Joker then Jack Nicholson. Mark Strong sound moost normal in this one and not realy need to over act his voice.

    This comercial is realy a spoof on Skyfall (I must think about Silva comment's about England The Empire / Mi6 so old fashion) and over use of Die Another Day Astin Martin look like cars (I whas happy the Astin Martin be destroyd in QOS)

    And iam happy there not use Matthew Goode, who i stil like to see as villian in tuxedo. Because i like it there wil play again with Bond English class what Daniel Craig Bond not realy have show yet.

    When Mr White and Quantum return.. English chactor/actor wil more like Henchman i think. Bond, M, Q, Moneypenny, Tanner, Olga and mabey Kincade, Villiers and Clair Dowar be the only ''other'' British chacters.
  • Dragonpol2Dragonpol2 The Crazy World of Daniel Dragonpol
    edited February 2014 Posts: 145
    WillyGalore wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    WillyGalore wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol2 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    One of the reasons why I am not too keen on a Britsh actor for a villain in the next Bond movies. Although they are maybe the best actors.

    Well, of course they were never British in the original Fleming Bond novels, anyhow. Exotic=foreign actor. Just look at the success of Raoul Silva.

    I always wondered how an Hispanic like Silva ended up working for MI6. I guess he only needed British nationality, maybe one of his parents or even grandparents was British.

    He doesn't have to be British to work for MI6. That philosophy goes all the way back to Kerim Bay who was head of Station T, Turkey.

    True. But wasn't Bey a British national?

    His mother was English and his father Turkish and he was born in Turkey. I think he would qualify as a British National but only if he applied for citizenship.

    I guess Sadruddin (Octopussy) would be another example like Silva.

    I wonder, though, are station heads different as they are mostly natives and blend in to the backdrop that they happen to represent wherever around the globe? I think so, personally.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    Dragonpol2 wrote:
    WillyGalore wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    WillyGalore wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol2 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    One of the reasons why I am not too keen on a Britsh actor for a villain in the next Bond movies. Although they are maybe the best actors.

    Well, of course they were never British in the original Fleming Bond novels, anyhow. Exotic=foreign actor. Just look at the success of Raoul Silva.

    I always wondered how an Hispanic like Silva ended up working for MI6. I guess he only needed British nationality, maybe one of his parents or even grandparents was British.

    He doesn't have to be British to work for MI6. That philosophy goes all the way back to Kerim Bay who was head of Station T, Turkey.

    True. But wasn't Bey a British national?

    His mother was English and his father Turkish and he was born in Turkey. I think he would qualify as a British National but only if he applied for citizenship.

    I guess Sadruddin (Octopussy) would be another example like Silva.

    I wonder, though, are styation heads different as trhey are mostly natives and blend in to the backdrop that they happen to represent wherever around the globe? I think so, personally.

    Stations are usually linked to the embassy and the agents have a diplomatic cover.
  • Dragonpol2Dragonpol2 The Crazy World of Daniel Dragonpol
    Posts: 145
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol2 wrote:
    WillyGalore wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    WillyGalore wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol2 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    One of the reasons why I am not too keen on a Britsh actor for a villain in the next Bond movies. Although they are maybe the best actors.

    Well, of course they were never British in the original Fleming Bond novels, anyhow. Exotic=foreign actor. Just look at the success of Raoul Silva.

    I always wondered how an Hispanic like Silva ended up working for MI6. I guess he only needed British nationality, maybe one of his parents or even grandparents was British.

    He doesn't have to be British to work for MI6. That philosophy goes all the way back to Kerim Bay who was head of Station T, Turkey.

    True. But wasn't Bey a British national?

    His mother was English and his father Turkish and he was born in Turkey. I think he would qualify as a British National but only if he applied for citizenship.

    I guess Sadruddin (Octopussy) would be another example like Silva.

    I wonder, though, are styation heads different as trhey are mostly natives and blend in to the backdrop that they happen to represent wherever around the globe? I think so, personally.

    Stations are usually linked to the embassy and the agents have a diplomatic cover.

    A bit like Pleydell-Smith from Dr. No, I suppose, though I guess that that was still colonial days - Government House etc.

    What do you think of my theory on reliable natives being used as cover for Heads of Stations and their staff of agents e.g. Vijay and Saddruddin?
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    Yes, it is a valid one, especially if the native is from a former British colony.

    That said, we are going off topic. It could have its own thread.
  • Dragonpol2Dragonpol2 The Crazy World of Daniel Dragonpol
    Posts: 145
    Ludovico wrote:
    Yes, it is a valid one, especially if the native is from a former British colony.

    That said, we are going off topic. It could have its own thread.

    Yes, sorry. I lost sight of that, actually. Perhaps if you wish you'd like to start something on Stations in the Bond universe. Like most if not all of your threads so far I'm sure that it'd be an instant classic to return to again and again, dear brother @Ludovico.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    I might have suggested it before, but since smoking addiction is now considered vile and even Bond cannot smoke, why not make the villain a smoker? Not of cigarets, that would be banal, neither of cigars as cigar chomping villains are now a cliché, but what about a pipe smoker? It is so old fashioned nowadays, and thus odd. In the novels, General Grubozaboischikov smoked and I could see a villain with a pipe, and disgusting brown teeth and gum.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    That's a real pipe dream.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,338
    Ludovico wrote:
    I might have suggested it before, but since smoking addiction is now considered vile and even Bond cannot smoke, why not make the villain a smoker? Not of cigarets, that would be banal, neither of cigars as cigar chomping villains are now a cliché, but what about a pipe smoker? It is so old fashioned nowadays, and thus odd. In the novels, General Grubozaboischikov smoked and I could see a villain with a pipe, and disgusting brown teeth and gum.

    All fair points there; can't argue with that at all. I doubt though that Ian Fleming (notorious 70 a day unfiltered cigarettes chain smoker) would have ever written a Bond villain to have been evil because he smoked a pipe. Cheroots, you may remember, are a different matter, though. Sir Hugo Drax, Kristatos and Francisco Scaramanga all smoke cheroots (as does M, usually a pipe smoker, in the Moonraker novel). How about a Bond villain who chews tobacco? Or is that too much of a Western genre cliche? It probably is.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,338
    Birdleson wrote:
    I would like to see a villain that does not tie into Bond's, or M's, past.

    I think that's what we'll get in Bond 24, or rather I hope so.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    Birdleson wrote:
    I would like to see a villain that does not tie into Bond's, or M's, past.

    This is off topic though, as it has nothing to do with his appearance.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2014 Posts: 13,356
    We got this in both Casino Royale and Quantum Of Solace, no? So people are complaining about a one-off that likely will not happen again.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    Samuel001 wrote:
    We got this in both Casino Royale and Quantum Of Solace, no? So people are complaining about a one-off that likely will not happen again.

    Exactly.

  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    I might have suggested it before, but since smoking addiction is now considered vile and even Bond cannot smoke, why not make the villain a smoker? Not of cigarets, that would be banal, neither of cigars as cigar chomping villains are now a cliché, but what about a pipe smoker? It is so old fashioned nowadays, and thus odd. In the novels, General Grubozaboischikov smoked and I could see a villain with a pipe, and disgusting brown teeth and gum.

    All fair points there; can't argue with that at all. I doubt though that Ian Fleming (notorious 70 a day unfiltered cigarettes chain smoker) would have ever written a Bond villain to have been evil because he smoked a pipe. Cheroots, you may remember, are a different matter, though. Sir Hugo Drax, Kristatos and Francisco Scaramanga all smoke cheroots (as does M, usually a pipe smoker, in the Moonraker novel). How about a Bond villain who chews tobacco? Or is that too much of a Western genre cliche? It probably is.

    Ha! That would be a riot. Billy Ray Blofeld.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,338
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    I might have suggested it before, but since smoking addiction is now considered vile and even Bond cannot smoke, why not make the villain a smoker? Not of cigarets, that would be banal, neither of cigars as cigar chomping villains are now a cliché, but what about a pipe smoker? It is so old fashioned nowadays, and thus odd. In the novels, General Grubozaboischikov smoked and I could see a villain with a pipe, and disgusting brown teeth and gum.

    All fair points there; can't argue with that at all. I doubt though that Ian Fleming (notorious 70 a day unfiltered cigarettes chain smoker) would have ever written a Bond villain to have been evil because he smoked a pipe. Cheroots, you may remember, are a different matter, though. Sir Hugo Drax, Kristatos and Francisco Scaramanga all smoke cheroots (as does M, usually a pipe smoker, in the Moonraker novel). How about a Bond villain who chews tobacco? Or is that too much of a Western genre cliche? It probably is.

    Ha! That would be a riot. Billy Ray Blofeld.

    Why the hell not, that's what I say!
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    I thought I would resurrect this thread as we have now a casting.
  • patbpatb
    edited January 2015 Posts: 4,617
    It would be nice that, if the Bond franchise is seen as a reflection of the society it is made within, we could move away from the connection between disability/deformity and evil. Three years ago, we saw the best ever paralympics in London and the stigma and taboo attached to disability are finally being removed. We also see our brave guys coming back from action abroad with dreadful injuries from mines etc, they deserve respect. At an obvious or sub-liminal level, seeing a guy with a metal hand (DrN) or a mechanical arm (LALD) or his face scarred by burns (GE) as the bad guy is a little demeaning and old fashioned IMHO. Evil comes in all shapes and sizes. I know many will think I am being PC but there you go.
    PS Having see Inglorious Bastards a few nights ago on TV (and that reminding me of Resevoir Dogs), evil can so effectively be portrayed via actions and character, you dont need gimicks.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    But deformities is a Fleming classic trope! In Quebec we had a lieutenant governor in a wheelchair commit fraud and nobody would say she was stigmatized as a person in wheelchair... Or that she brought shame to people in her condition.
  • patbpatb
    edited January 2015 Posts: 4,617
    No worries but Bond does move on, when was the last time he had a smoke for example, Bond movies clearly do reflect the era they are made in, it was just an observation.
    There were times (before Fleming) where it was perfectly OK to link ethnic background with being evil and we have grown up and realised that its just wrong, things do evolve and hopefully improve.
    (PS its not just Fleming, http://cjc-online.ca/index.php/journal/article/view/718/624)
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    I understand, but it is better to give a villain an unusual appearance than making common and whitewashed. We have a German probably playing the villain now. And a rather large and mean looking henchman.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    perhaps we should start a new thread on the best ever non Bond villains but Rickman in Die Hard was superb IMHO, killer dialogue , killer delivery
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