The name's 25. Bond 25, or rather, it's NTTD.

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  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Bond 24: Whispering Death
    (although I got that from another book ..., but I do like it)

  • Posts: 15,106
    A whisper of hate would be better I think and very Flemingesque.
  • edited December 2013 Posts: 9,843
    Ludovico wrote:
    A whisper of hate would be better I think and very Flemingesque.

    I still am completely unsure why they haven't touched the chapter title. Post fleming I get (why pay an extra author's estate) but strangly no to chapter titles and there are least 10 viable ones.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Risico007 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    A whisper of hate would be better I think and very Flemingesque.

    I still am completely unsure why they haven't touched the chapter title. Post fleming I get (why pay an extra author's estate) but strangly no to chapter titles and there are least 10 viable ones.

    No idea either. Some sound more like crime fiction titles, some are nothing more than chapters title, but a few could be used: The Shadower, Multiple Requiem, to name a few. Inspiring enough and fitting for various themes or plot.
  • Posts: 9,843
    I always liked

    Valley of Shadows
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    I always forget what it is, but someone came up with 'Zero...' something a while back and I loved it. I don't recall what it was exactly - may not have even been 'Zero...', my mind seems to fail me right now - but then they had an alternate title to match it in case 'Bond 24' ended on a cliffhanger and continued with 'Bond 25.'
  • Posts: 9,843
    chapter titles of moonraker

    Zero Minus

    Zero Plus?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    I think that might be it. I don't know, my brain just won't work with me today. If not, I would enjoy seeing two similar titles if that was the route two Bond films ever took.
  • Creasy47 wrote:
    I think that might be it. I don't know, my brain just won't work with me today. If not, I would enjoy seeing two similar titles if that was the route two Bond films ever took.

    They're from Moonraker, if I remember correctly. I'm not sure I'd like to see a Bond movie end on a cliffhanger, though. The closest we've had so far is Casino Royale, and I liked that, but I wouldn't want a full-on "what's going to happen to Bond?" ending, especially since it's James Bond and we all know what happens in the end.
    Bond wins.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    Yeah, but a nice little cliffhanger involving the villain/plot/an ally or Bond girl would be interesting.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I think that might be it. I don't know, my brain just won't work with me today. If not, I would enjoy seeing two similar titles if that was the route two Bond films ever took.

    They're from Moonraker, if I remember correctly. I'm not sure I'd like to see a Bond movie end on a cliffhanger, though. The closest we've had so far is Casino Royale, and I liked that, but I wouldn't want a full-on "what's going to happen to Bond?" ending, especially since it's James Bond and we all know what happens in the end.
    Bond wins.

    You could argue that Bond doesn't always "win," though. The Craig era has taken a new and interesting turn on endings, where the victories, if you wish to call them that, are severely pyrrhic.

    In Casino Royale Bond risks life and limb, literally and figuratively in both cases to win the poker game, almost goes bust, then comes back to win the full pot and crushes Le Chiffre's chances of winning back his lost money. Throughout the film Bond fell deeply in love with a woman who made him question his entire career up to that point in his life, and even drove him to turn in his resignation, only to find out as they were floating around the world together that she betrayed him. He runs to her and her associates who are his enemies, fighting his own inner feelings towards the woman which bounce constantly between love and hate. He soldiers on, risking his life to save the woman and dispatch Gettler and his crew, nearly dying for his troubles only to have that woman who he was going to spend the rest of his life with kill herself in front of him. Though he tries to resuscitate her, it's all in vain. Although he ends up getting White in the end, Bond not only loses his love, but he also loses the money he worked most of the film for. Quite pyrrhic.

    Moving on to QoS, by the time the film ends Bond has faced an entire film full of adversity, not only from the overwhelming secret organization known as Quantum who were able to plant one of their own in M's inner circle, but also from his own government who think he is reckless and needs to be stopped by any means necessary; add in the CIA to that lot too. Bond is then, for all intents and purposes largely on his own, with only Camille and Mathis physically by his side, and M with him mentally, if that makes any sense. He spends the entire film going through his version of the grieving process over the woman he was going to spend the rest of his life with, involving sadness, deep depression, anger, and more, all the while trying to dodge bullets (again, figuratively and literally) coming from both his enemies and his own people back in London. As we reach the climax, Bond's only real sources of trust this entire time have been M, Camille, Mathis (now dead) and Felix, having already felt the pain of guilt over Fields's demise and experienced another taste of Greene's viciousness. As usual, Bond goes in, stops the coup of sorts that was set up, lets Camille do her "revenge" thing, and deals with Greene, leaving him with nothing but motor oil for a drink in the middle of the Bolivian desert. As the film ends Bond realizes through Camille and his own experiences during the film that revenge missions (something his government thought he was on) are futile, as those like Mathis and Vesper could never return from the grave no matter how many people he killed and no matter how many bucket-fulls of blood were spilled on his hands. While he ends the film a better, more dependable and competent agent by letting Yusef live and he is effectively able to move past Vesper, Bond's losses and tests of trust amongst his own agency he faced during the film can't be overlooked. It's not as pyrrhic an ending as Casino Royale, sure, but still leaves Bond with more scars to his soul, both internally and externally.

    And now, we arrive at Skyfall, the king of pyrrhic victories in the Bond series. The first half of the film Bond is facing off against the most dangerous enemy he could ever address in combat: himself. He is dried out, beaten down and lacking any real sense of direction after losing some trust in M, searching for ways to recreate some of the adrenaline of his life-threatening missions while in seclusion, like participating in the bar game with the scorpion. As always, he is driven back into the fray after his precious realm and boss are put in danger's path, and so Bond cocks his gun, straightens his tie and kicks into high gear again, building himself up from the proverbial fall that all heroes must at one time face, some more times than others. The second half of the film is then spent with the Bond we all know and love back again, though much worse for wear, facing a revenge fueled menace who is mercurial, remorseless, and terrifying, who most importantly has his gaze set on toppling the foundations around M. Silva brings Bond to the ultimate breaking point, forcing him to take M out of the country to partly insure that no more of London's people (and the innocents of any other areas) or MI6 personnel die because of the madman, drawing him into a final battle centered around the ghastly specter of Bond's past: his childhood home. Bond proceeds to enter one of the greatest battles of his life, the eternal traditionalist against the technical wizard bent on revenge. Though he proves M's statements correct that human agents are still needed in our modern times, she dies courageously in the course of the fight, taking her last, complimentary breaths in his arms. Bond's veritable "mother figure" is then gone in a flash, leaving him with the message that he is her true legacy, despite all her career failures in the past. Though he has killed Silva and his cohorts, halting any more innocents from dying through the course of the crazed man's revenge plot, Bond lost one of his greatest allies and absolute maternal rock who crafted him into the agent we all love, the pyrrhic victory to end all pyrrhic victories. The tonal saving grace of the film is the ending, which takes us on our way to the credits on a touching note. It is revealed through her will that M's last gift to Bond of many is the bulldog, symbolic of the stubborn quality both share, her way of telling him to keep pushing through any adversity he will indubitably meet from beyond the grave.

    These kinds of pyrrhic victories for Bond are what I love about the Craig era, amongst many other factors. These films challenged all perceptions I had of what winners and losers were, especially when the "hero" and "villain" had both lost so much once the fight was over. The films equally display just how relative the hero/villain roles can be. Damn fine cinema is what I call it...
  • Posts: 15,106
    I love how in the Craig's era we can feel and fear that Bond may be defeated. He is not invincible.
  • edited December 2013 Posts: 90
    Forever Is Not Enough
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  • some ideas

    Sins for a Soul

    out in the cold

    Line of Sight

    any thoughts?
  • Risico
  • Risico

    that would be great. but i don't think they will use another fleming title for Craig
    Maybe saving them for when a new bond actor needs to introduced.
  • Ledlunar wrote:
    Again, in Bond 24 I’d like to see the movie seize the mood of M’s speech in Skyfall where she talks about 'the shadows' because I think it's an important metaphor for the type of world Bond lives in, and where his enemies come from. This is why I think that 'shadow' should be worked into the title in some way. Here's a list of some of the titles I thought up off the top of my head:

    The Man in the Shadows
    Day of the Shadow
    The Shadow Men
    Shadow-man
    Night-shadow
    Ice-shadow
    Shadow-fire
    Fire in the Shadows
    Eye of the Shadow
    Into the Shadows
    Shadows Never Fade
    Never Fear the Shadows
    Shadows in Daylight



    If it deals with the head of Quantum I think "eye of the shadow" works well. Kinda the center of Quantum like eye of the hurricane which would make sense if they introduce a "Blofeld" type head figure

    I like "Shadows in Daylight" myself, but I could get used to "Eye Of The Shadow" too...

  • The Man From [ insert whatever ]
    The Facts of Death
    Zero Minus Ten
    Devil May Care

    Those have an excellent ring to them. Yeah, they're continuation novel titles but they sound nice to me at least.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2014 Posts: 13,355
    Why's that @Birdleson? Not many people would. What do you like about it? I find that it's more of a statement, not a title. I can't see the words 007 or Bond ever being used in a film title actually. There's no need to choice them.

    I would however like another country name in a title. We have only had that once, so its return would be welcomed.
  • Risico would work IMO, because it's short and bold, like the title Skyfall. Since Mendas and much of the cast of Skyfall is returning for Bond 24 and it's been said that the new film will "build on" Skyfall, Risico just seems to make sense--it's a title for a true follow-up.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Risico would work IMO, because it's short and bold, like the title Skyfall. Since Mendas and much of the cast of Skyfall is returning for Bond 24 and it's been said that the new film will "build on" Skyfall, Risico just seems to make sense--it's a title for a true follow-up.

    Not sure I get your logic. I thing anything is up for grabs at the moment. I can't say that a Fleming title has any more or less chance than an original being used. We'll have no idea for a while, unless they decide to tease early. My gut feeling is 'original' for 24, but who knows.
  • RC7 wrote:
    Risico would work IMO, because it's short and bold, like the title Skyfall. Since Mendas and much of the cast of Skyfall is returning for Bond 24 and it's been said that the new film will "build on" Skyfall, Risico just seems to make sense--it's a title for a true follow-up.

    Not sure I get your logic. I thing anything is up for grabs at the moment. I can't say that a Fleming title has any more or less chance than an original being used. We'll have no idea for a while, unless they decide to tease early. My gut feeling is 'original' for 24, but who knows.

    If they were to use a Fleming title it would make the most sense--short and bold, like Skyfall. But you're right, there's no way to know if they will use a Fleming title or an original one at this point.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote:
    Risico would work IMO, because it's short and bold, like the title Skyfall. Since Mendas and much of the cast of Skyfall is returning for Bond 24 and it's been said that the new film will "build on" Skyfall, Risico just seems to make sense--it's a title for a true follow-up.

    Not sure I get your logic. I thing anything is up for grabs at the moment. I can't say that a Fleming title has any more or less chance than an original being used. We'll have no idea for a while, unless they decide to tease early. My gut feeling is 'original' for 24, but who knows.

    If they were to use a Fleming title it would make the most sense--short and bold, like Skyfall. But you're right, there's no way to know if they will use a Fleming title or an original one at this point.

    Ah, I see. I would agree that it's the best unused Fleming title and probably the only one I think is worth using, if the time is right. I'm incredibly ambivalent about THR and POAL - I'd take decent originals over them.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    It is definitely unique and it is the country name that gives it that edge, in my opinion.
  • 007 in New York just sounds so pedestrian. None of the other Bond titles are that kind of "exactly what it says on the tin". They all have an air of exotic mystery, not just a bland explanation of the plot.
  • 007 in New York just sounds so pedestrian. None of the other Bond titles are that kind of "exactly what it says on the tin". They all have an air of exotic mystery, not just a bland explanation of the plot.

    Agreed. Maybe they could jazz up the title a little?



  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2014 Posts: 13,355
    What strikes it straight off the list is that '007' would never be used in a film title.

    Does anyone remember when, somehow, 007 was the rumoured title for Quantum Of Solace?
  • 007 in New York just sounds so pedestrian. None of the other Bond titles are that kind of "exactly what it says on the tin". They all have an air of exotic mystery, not just a bland explanation of the plot.

    Agreed. Maybe they could jazz up the title a little?

    The title was originally supposed to "Reflections in a Carey Cadillac". That could work, although it would be better if it were shortened to just "Reflections".

    @Samuel001, I've never heard of that, but they did consider holding off on The World is Not Enough for a year and calling it Bond 2000. That would have made for a truly awful run of titles.
  • Birdleson wrote:
    I wouldn't jazz it up. 007 IN NEW YORK sound great because it's so direct and different. If it's altered, it may as well not be used.

    IDK, it sounds more lame than QOS--that title is just so clunky (although I do like the movie).


  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    007 in New York just sounds so pedestrian. None of the other Bond titles are that kind of "exactly what it says on the tin". They all have an air of exotic mystery, not just a bland explanation of the plot.

    Agreed. Maybe they could jazz up the title a little?

    The title was originally supposed to "Reflections in a Carey Cadillac". That could work, although it would be better if it were shortened to just "Reflections".

    @Samuel001, I've never heard of that, but they did consider holding off on The World is Not Enough for a year and calling it Bond 2000. That would have made for a truly awful run of titles.

    I never think for one minute, Bond 2000 would have been a title for a film. Someone makes these up and they spread all over the net.
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