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Is Skyfall losing its gloss and appeal ?

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  • Matt_HelmMatt_Helm
    Posts: 908
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I can't remember if I wrote this further up in the thread but I think Severine's death could have been handled a bit better. The more times ive watched it the more it doesn't quite sit right. Perhaps just a simple close-up of Craig's face could have solved this. As it is it just seems to be "bang", "waste of good Scotch", lets get on with the action.

    I've heard this a number of times and I don't get it. Severine's death is just a extension of Silva's mind games with Bond. Silva continues to prod and Bond doesn't yield. Craig's performance is so incredibly subtle. Watch it again, you can see the glimmer of pain beneath the eyes. It didn't need any more than that IMO.

    Precisely. The main criticisms I always see regarding that scene is 1.) Bond doesn't do anything to stop Severine's death, and 2.) he shows no emotion and jokes about her death with the scotch line. Both I find to be inferior arguments.

    In the first instance, Bond doesn't know that Silva is just going to suddenly shoot Severine dead. He knew Silva was maybe a little "off," but he had only just met him and hadn't fully understood his mercurial disposition as someone like M does with their shared history together. Bond obviously found the "shoot the glass" game to be sick and twisted, but I don't quite think he quite expected Silva to just snap and shoot Severine out of nowhere, especially since he was under the impression that they may have been lovers. It is only at this point that Bond fully understands Severine's warning about Silva, and how he is not above making anyone expendable along the way to completing his final mission. As I said, I don't think Bond fully understood Silva's madness at this stage and since he hadn't seen it coming, he couldn't prevent it. He's a hell of an agent, but not Superman.

    While I have heard good arguments that support proponents of the first complaint, this second one truly is gob-smacking. I can't believe there are actually people out there (Bond fans included) that think Bond didn't give a care in the world about Severine and thought it in good taste to mock her death by calling it a waste of good scotch. Obviously once one uses their senses and sees the anger and resentment in Bond's face towards Silva and what he has just done it is easy to see that his line was a continuation of their chess game. Just like in the previous scene in the film where Bond and Silva engaged in a chess game of words to try and one-up each other, Bond doesn't want to show Silva that he has been cracked and affected by Severine's death, so he fakes callousness. That constant fight to be on top between Bond and Silva is a main feature of the film, and in spectacular form here. Basically, what @RC7 said in a tidier, much less pleonastic way. Apologies for writing a novel...

    This guy has been thoroughly humiliated and ridiculed by Silva and now he thinks he can keep control by faking complete indifference? Sure! I and Mr Fleming (who thought of his creation as a hero and not a sociopathic wreck)) take a very visible Roger Moore disgust any time when it comes to the killing of the helpless and innocent!
    This incredible sublime performance stuff is beyond ridiculous, after all this is still a James Bond movie and I'm willing to bet that the majority of cinema goers spend their money for the entertainment factor of a 007 flic and not for deep analyzing Craig's facial expressions (which mostly seem to comprise of either a grim grin or looking completely pissed ).To me Craig's acting abilities are slightly overvalued, since in already three movies he hasn't even been able to show us some smooth delivered one liner,let alone flirt. A really great actor should be able to do so, at least in my modest opinion.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Craig is no Connery or Dalton, that's for sure. Not sure he really matches up to Roger either. But he's a major step up from Broz, for which I will always be grateful. And whatever you see as his faults, at least he approaches the role with some seriousness and respect for the part. I think he's a better actor than Lazenby, but I put their Bonds on a fairly even ranking.
  • Matt_HelmMatt_Helm
    Posts: 908
    Getafix wrote:
    Craig is no Connery or Dalton, that's for sure. Not sure he really matches up to Roger either. But he's a major step up from Broz, for which I will always be grateful. And whatever you see as his faults, at least he approaches the role with some seriousness and respect for the part. I think he's a better actor than Lazenby, but I put their Bonds on a fairly even ranking.

    I never meant to claim that Moore is a better actor than Craig, but I am absolutely positive, that if Fleming had written as scene in which a girl is killed in front of Bond the way she is, Fleming would have make it a point to show how disgusted Bond is by such behavior.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    chrisisall wrote:
    SF is TWINE with a different kind of painface.

    Would that be Poutface? ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,829
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    SF is TWINE with a different kind of painface.

    Would that be Poutface? ;)
    Precisely.
    B-)
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    chrisisall wrote:
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    SF is TWINE with a different kind of painface.

    Would that be Poutface? ;)
    Precisely.
    B-)

    Very amusing! I secretly agree.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    He does pout quite a lot I agree :)
  • AViewToATeabagAViewToATeabag
    Posts: 11
    Skyfall for me is and remains a wonderful. Looking at Connery's, Moore's and Brosnan's 3rd outings as Bond, I think Skyfall is the best for a third time around. The only problem I had with it was the over use of M once again. From TWINE onwards, the writers have kept throwing in more and more screen time for M, and in the end I was pleased to see her kick the bucket. But Skyfall had in my view one of the top 3 villains in the series which always makes it for me, great viewing.
  • CraigisnotbondCraigisnotbond
    Posts: 99
    BAIN123 wrote:
    He does pout quite a lot I agree :)

    And mumbles
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    Craigisnotbond wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    He does pout quite a lot I agree :)

    And mumbles

    Still, could be worse...

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,829
    Never fails to make me LOL.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    SF is not losing its appeal around here I can tell you. Judging by the rankings. Quite the opposite. I will post an update on the average of those soon enough, but right now it has climbed rather than fallen.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    To me Craig's acting abilities are slightly overvalued, since in already three movies he hasn't even been able to show us some smooth delivered one liner.

    I didn't realise this was the universally accepted barometer for 'acting ability'. You do come out with some horse shit.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    RC7 wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    To me Craig's acting abilities are slightly overvalued, since in already three movies he hasn't even been able to show us some smooth delivered one liner.

    I didn't realise this was the universally accepted barometer for 'acting ability'. You do come out with some horse shit.

    Manure does tend to make things grow when well applied.

    Critism tends to make discussion grow well when well applied, insulting different opinions does not do that well.

  • RC7RC7
    edited March 2014 Posts: 10,512
    SaintMark wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    To me Craig's acting abilities are slightly overvalued, since in already three movies he hasn't even been able to show us some smooth delivered one liner.

    I didn't realise this was the universally accepted barometer for 'acting ability'. You do come out with some horse shit.

    Manure does tend to make things grow when well applied.

    Critism tends to make discussion grow well when well applied, insulting different opinions does not do that well.

    How is it up there on your high horse?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,829
    I agree with SaintMark.
    Look, I'm not a big giant fan of SF, but Craig is an excellent actor IMO.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    RC7 wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    To me Craig's acting abilities are slightly overvalued, since in already three movies he hasn't even been able to show us some smooth delivered one liner.

    I didn't realise this was the universally accepted barometer for 'acting ability'. You do come out with some horse shit.

    Manure does tend to make things grow when well applied.

    Critism tends to make discussion grow well when well applied, insulting different opinions does not do that well.

    How is it up there on your high horse?

    They are prefered over ponies. ;)

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    chrisisall wrote:
    I agree with SaintMark.

    Agree with what? That manure is a decent fertiliser, or that Craig's repertoire of one-liners make him a lesser actor?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited March 2014 Posts: 17,829
    RC7 wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    I agree with SaintMark.

    Agree with what? That manure is a decent fertiliser, or that Craig's repertoire of one-liners make him a lesser actor?
    That insulting differing opinions is not so cool. :)>-
    (He didn't dis Craig for the one-liner thing btw)
  • RC7RC7
    edited March 2014 Posts: 10,512
    chrisisall wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    I agree with SaintMark.

    Agree with what? That manure is a decent fertiliser, or that Craig's repertoire of one-liners make him a lesser actor?
    That insulting differing opinions is not so cool. :)>-
    (He didn't dis Craig for the one-liner thing btw)

    Ah, I'm not so fussed about this perceived etiquette. Some people come on here simply to lay forth their narrow-minded rhetoric, not opinion. As someone who tries to find and appreciate a balance and genuinely wants to 'discuss', I've no time for such nonsense. I may throw out the odd fuck, shit, wank, what have you. But I don't suffer fools gladly and I've no interest in seeking approval. If someone wants to tell me that "Craig's acting abilities are slightly overvalued, since in already three movies he hasn't even been able to show us some smooth delivered one liner", that's fine, but don't expect me to accept such a nonsensical piece of conjecture. Feel free to disagree, but don't try and shut down conversations. It's a discussion forum.

    For the record, I'm obviously suggesting it is Senor Helm with the loaded rhetoric, not @SaintMark. He just got wrapped up in the bullshit. ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,829
    RC7 wrote:
    For the record, I'm obviously suggesting it is Senor Helm with the loaded rhetoric, not @SaintMark. He just got wrapped up in the bullshit. ;)

    Cool. I just like Bond. I'm not here for conflict in the serious sense. I like to fight, but just in fun.
    Dalton was best. Connery was classic. Lazenby did surprisingly good. Moore made me smile. Brosnan was cool beyond words. Craig is awesome in his physicality & intensity.
    Wanna fight? :))
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    chrisisall wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    For the record, I'm obviously suggesting it is Senor Helm with the loaded rhetoric, not @SaintMark. He just got wrapped up in the bullshit. ;)

    Cool. I just like Bond. I'm not here for conflict in the serious sense. I like to fight, but just in fun.
    Dalton was best. Connery was classic. Lazenby did surprisingly good. Moore made me smile. Brosnan was cool beyond words. Craig is awesome in his physicality & intensity.
    Wanna fight? :))

    No, Moore was the man. Let's fight.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,829
    RC7 wrote:
    No, Moore was the man. Let's fight.
    Just watched FYEO last night. Loved it again. No fight here.
    ;)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    chrisisall wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    No, Moore was the man. Let's fight.
    Just watched FYEO last night. Loved it again. No fight here.
    ;)

    I hope you sang along to Conti's score. Particularly during the bob-sled chase.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,829
    RC7 wrote:
    I hope you sang along to Conti's score. Particularly during the bob-sled chase.
    I hate the Conti score, but it's not a deal breaker for me in the end.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    chrisisall wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I hope you sang along to Conti's score. Particularly during the bob-sled chase.
    I hate the Conti score, but it's not a deal breaker for me in the end.
    It's funny because 3 years later Bill Conti ripped off his own music from FYEO for the TV Show "The Master."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,829
    I thought it fit there.
  • Matt_HelmMatt_Helm
    edited March 2014 Posts: 908
    RC7 wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    I agree with SaintMark.

    Agree with what? That manure is a decent fertiliser, or that Craig's repertoire of one-liners make him a lesser actor?
    That insulting differing opinions is not so cool. :)>-
    (He didn't dis Craig for the one-liner thing btw)

    Ah, I'm not so fussed about this perceived etiquette. Some people come on here simply to lay forth their narrow-minded rhetoric, not opinion. As someone who tries to find and appreciate a balance and genuinely wants to 'discuss', I've no time for such nonsense. I may throw out the odd fuck, shit, wank, what have you. But I don't suffer fools gladly and I've no interest in seeking approval. If someone wants to tell me that "Craig's acting abilities are slightly overvalued, since in already three movies he hasn't even been able to show us some smooth delivered one liner", that's fine, but don't expect me to accept such a nonsensical piece of conjecture. Feel free to disagree, but don't try and shut down conversations. It's a discussion forum.
    )

    Obviously there are a lot of things you don't know about. About that one liner and flirting business - some of us who appreciate fine acting call the ability to apply such lines and emotions bandwidth (probably something you haven't heard about). Get yourself someone who does and look at those movies a certain Mr. Connery made in the 1970s. He just covered it all from hilarious funny to melancholic dramatic and he was able to do so because he was such a tremendous actor. This has nothing to do if I do like or dislike Craig, I also apply this logic to the likes of Laurence Olivier and Robert De Niro.
    About your "not suffering fools gladly" attitude - you should consider you lucky because obviously your girlfriend doesn't share it.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I know nussing, Mr. Helm. Honestly, I don't have the energy to converse in riddles. Let's agree to disagree.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    edited March 2014 Posts: 2,483
    nm
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