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Live And Let Die vs Tomorrow Never Dies - By the Elements

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  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    WillyGalore wrote:
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    PTS: The Living Daylights. As important as the GF one is, it's not even close. Probably the best in the series.
    Title Track: The Living Daylights. This is closer but GF is overplayed whereas this gets an incredible amount of flack.
    Title Credits: The Living Daylights. This is Binder's best effort of the 80s and certainly better than Brownjohn's.
    Main Villain: The Living Daylights. I did this by weighted average. Yes, I have Whitaker very low, but same goes to Goldfinger. Koskov, who I adore, balances things out in favour of TLD. Unfortunately, this is the only category where GF stood a chance.
    Main Bond Girl: The Living Daylights
    Overall Plot: The Living Daylights. GF's plot is terrible.
    Dialogue: The Living Daylights
    Score: The Living Daylights. One of Barry's holy trifecta (TB, OHMSS, TLD) against a score where he'd yet to come into his own. GF does still have a great soundtrack though, and I actually own the LP for it.
    Settings: The Living Daylights. Six countries and three continents? Yes please!
    Action: The Living Daylights. Ice chase and cargo net fight against the tedious Fort Knox standoff.
    Humor: The Living Daylights. This was quite close, actually. I think Dalton manages the humour fine though, and the writing is better.
    Cinematography: The Living Daylights. The action shots are perfect.
    Benign Bizarre: The Living Daylights. Neither film really has it, but why give GF a point for no reason?
    Suspense: The Living Daylights. Oh completely. All Goldfinger has is the laser table scene.
    Minor Characters: The Living Daylights. Pushkin. Kamran Shah. Even the assassin in the PTS who never speaks a word is one of the most memorable characters in the series!
    Glamour: The Living Daylights. What does Goldfinger really have other than a bunch of gold? I find TLD to be very exotic at times.
    Ally: The Living Daylights. Oh god, Linder's Leiter is abysmal.

    Clean sweep for The Living Daylights.

    So on what basis do you give TLD the point instead if neither film has it? Makes no sense.

    I figured at that point, the winning film might as well have the point. Besides, I find Whitaker's statues and Necros' personality slightly strange. I don't find anything in GF strange.

    Because a hulking mute Korean with a steel rimmed bowler hat is perfectly normal...
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    How about Jill Masterson painted gold, Oddjob's plated hat, Goldfinger's gold everything, the execution by laser, and the possibly lesbian flight squad?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    I have recently re-appraised Goldfinger. I used to think of it a highly overrated and slow in spots; now I just consider it an accidental masterpiece. Still, I like TLD a good deal better because, well, DALTON.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    PTS: The Living Daylights
    Title Track: Goldfinger
    Title Credits: Goldfinger
    Main Villain: Goldfinger
    Main Bond Girl: The Living Daylights
    Overall Plot: Goldfinger
    Dialogue: The Living Daylights
    Score: The Living Daylights
    Settings: The Living Daylights
    Action: The Living Daylights
    Humor: Goldfinger
    Cinematography: The Living Daylights
    Benign Bizarre: Goldfinger
    Suspense: The Living Daylights
    Minor Characters: The Living Daylights
    Glamour: The Living Daylights
    Ally: The Living Daylights
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    chrisisall wrote:
    I have recently re-appraised Goldfinger. I used to think of it a highly overrated and slow in spots; now I just consider it an accidental masterpiece
    Ha, that's actually a great description for it. Well done.
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    chrisisall wrote:
    I have recently re-appraised Goldfinger. I used to think of it a highly overrated and slow in spots; now I just consider it an accidental masterpiece. Still, I like TLD a good deal better because, well, DALTON.

    Accidental masterpiece? What does that mean?
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Soundofthesinners wrote:
    How about Jill Masterson painted gold, Oddjob's plated hat, Goldfinger's gold everything, the execution by laser, and the possibly lesbian flight squad?

    If Jill painted gold can't be classified as strange I don't know what can.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    PTS: The Living Daylights
    Title Track: TLD
    Title Credits: Goldfinger
    Main Villain: Goldfinger
    Main Bond Girl: The Living Daylights
    Overall Plot: TLD
    Dialogue: The Living Daylights
    Score: The Living Daylights
    Settings: The Living Daylights
    Action: The Living Daylights
    Humor: Goldfinger
    Cinematography: GF
    Benign Bizarre: Goldfinger
    Suspense: The Living Daylights
    Minor Characters: The Living Daylights
    Glamour: The Living Daylights
    Ally: The Living Daylights
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    @Murdock, any reason why you use abbreviations sometimes and the full names sometimes?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    Soundofthesinners wrote:
    @Murdock, any reason why you use abbreviations sometimes and the full names sometimes?

    Because I copied and pasted Samuel's list and changed certain ones. It's a lazy Friday. :P
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    Murdock wrote:
    Soundofthesinners wrote:
    @Murdock, any reason why you use abbreviations sometimes and the full names sometimes?

    Because I copied and pasted Samuel's list and changed certain ones. It's a lazy Friday. :P

    Fair enough. The rest of us nuts sitting around talking Bond on a Friday night have no high ground here.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    Soundofthesinners wrote:
    The rest of us nuts sitting around talking Bond on a Friday night have no high ground here.
    I'm currently at a party on a yacht here in the Bahamas- lots of pretty girls, nice booze, and the host is cool (though I wish he'd stop offering me a job at his conglomerate, I cannot abide ties), but MI6 is THE real place to be! :)>-
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    edited June 2014 Posts: 2,629
    PTS: TLD (a positively shocking chase through Gibraltar)
    Title Track: GF (Shirley Bassey stands the test of time. A-ha is only known for one song)
    Title Credits: TLD (But TLD's graphics were better)
    Main Villain: GF (Whitaker and Kovsky combined couldn't fill Goldfinger plane window)
    Main Bond Girl: GF (At least Pussy had the name going for her)
    Overall Plot: TLD (Allying with Osama seems more likely than nuking Fort Knox)
    Dialogue: TLD (Stuff your orders if you disagree)
    Score: GF (Close, but went with the classic)
    Settings: TLD (Vienna was very classy)
    Action: TLD (Cargo net fight seals the deal)
    Humor: GF (The genesis of the Bond wit)
    Cinematography: GF (GF held up better)
    Benign Bizarre: GF (Bladed hats weren't the rage in the 60s)
    Suspense: GF (3, er, 7 ticks left)
    Minor Characters: TLD (Even with John Terry, the minor characters still shine)
    Glamour: TLD (Again, Vienna. Kentucky Fried Chicken isn't glamor)
    Ally: TLD (Worst Felix vs 2nd Worst Felix. Thank goodness for Saunders.)

    TLD eeks it out 9-8.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    chrisisall wrote:
    Soundofthesinners wrote:
    The rest of us nuts sitting around talking Bond on a Friday night have no high ground here.
    I'm currently at a party on a yacht here in the Bahamas- lots of pretty girls, nice booze, and the host is cool (though I wish he'd stop offering me a job at his conglomerate, I cannot abide ties), but MI6 is THE real place to be! :)>-

    Hmm, my invitation must have been lost in the mail...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Hmm, my invitation must have been lost in the mail...
    I spotted the E-invite & redirected it. I wanted the pick of the females...
    :))
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    chrisisall wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Hmm, my invitation must have been lost in the mail...
    I spotted the E-invite & redirected it. I wanted the pick of the females...
    :))

    Totally understandable, I like your style! :))
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    I have an excuse. I'm old.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,169
    PTS: The Living Daylights
    Title Track: Goldfinger
    Title Credits: Goldfinger
    Main Villain: Goldfinger
    Main Bond Girl: The Living Daylights
    Overall Plot: Goldfinger
    Dialogue: The Living Daylights
    Score: The Living Daylights
    Settings: The Living Daylights
    Action: The Living Daylights
    Humor: The Living Daylights
    Cinematography: The Living Daylights
    Benign Bizarre: Goldfinger
    Suspense: The Living Daylights
    Minor Characters: The Living Daylights
    Glamour: The Living Daylights
    Ally: The Living Daylights

    Goldfinger - 5
    The Living Daylights - 12

    TLD wins!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    Kerim wrote:
    I have an excuse. I'm old.
    Didn't stop Rog. Just sayin'.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    chrisisall wrote:
    Kerim wrote:
    I have an excuse. I'm old.
    Didn't stop Rog. Just sayin'.

    I do have to get early to walk around the mall and catch that early bird breakfast before 7.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited June 2014 Posts: 14,680
    PTS: TLD (near tie, as GF's is an absolute corker)
    Title Track: GF (I don't mind TLD, but GF is a straight-up classic)
    Title Credits: GF (for projecting images of the film on Dink's curvy bod. Simply mesmerizing)
    Main Villain: GF (he has some cool villain scenes: the laser table; Fort Knox speech etc)
    Main Bond Girl: TLD (Kara is sweet, and I don't find Pussy that compelling. No pun.)
    Overall Plot: TLD (it's pure espionage; the Cold War Bond films are the best)
    Dialogue: GF (near tie)
    Score: TLD (near tie- but the first half of GF is real quality)
    Settings: TLD (not a big fan of GF's Kentucky settings; Gibraltar, North Africa, Vienna- it was exquisite)
    Action: TLD (easy decision here- there's not a lot of action in GF, period)
    Humor: GF (Dalton never pulled a goofy grin while in his prison cell)
    Cinematography: TLD (Was all of GF filmed at Pinewood?)
    Benign Bizarre: GF (Jill looking like 24-carats - how can TLD compete?)
    Suspense: GF (it's full of suspense, with tense music to accompany it)
    Minor Characters: TLD (Necros has top fight scenes, and who doesn't like Rhys-Davies?)
    Glamour: GF (so much gold; and when Bond 'gets to know' Jill- all that expensive food that gets wasted)
    Ally: TLD (Leiter cannot measure up to Saunders and his relationship with Bond)

    TLD: 9, GF: 8. Looks right to me.
  • SlyFox007SlyFox007
    edited June 2014 Posts: 414
    Two that have always ranked very highly to me. This should be interesting.

    PTS: The Living Daylights
    Title Track: Goldfinger (As great as a-Ha is, nothing can beat Shirley Bassey's most quintessential Bond theme.)
    Title Credits: The Living Daylights (As iconic as Goldfinger's opener is, Robert Brownjohn's projector can't compete with Maurice Binder's inventiveness.)
    Main Villain: Goldfinger (Not sure who most would consider the main villain for TLD. If it's Koskov, he's one of the villains so pathetic that he doesn't even warrant Bond finishing him off. If it's Whittaker, he's more of a heavy than a mastermind. Neither can compete with one of the few villains larger-than-life enough to have the entire film named after him.)
    Main Bond Girl: Goldfinger (Kara's gorgeous, but Pussy Galore has that oft-parodied name and so much more going for her.)
    Overall Plot: The Living Daylights (One of the most wonderfully complex of the entire series.)
    Dialogue: Goldfinger ("Do you expect me to talk?")
    Score: The Living Daylights (Tough call, but the larger variety of songs to be weaved into the score gives TLD the edge.)
    Settings: The Living Daylights
    Action: The Living Daylights (Goldfinger suffers from the pacing issues of a 60's film, while I consider TLD the first really modern Bond film)
    Humor: Goldfinger
    Cinematography: The Living Daylights
    Benign Bizarre: Goldfinger (Golden girls, weaponized bowler hats . . . if "benign bizarre" is that certain je ne sais quoi Bond stories have, it fits Goldfinger to a tee)
    Suspense: Goldfinger (What the older Bond films lack in action, they make up for in suspense)
    Minor Characters: Goldfinger
    Glamour: Goldfinger
    Ally: Goldfinger

    Goldfinger: 10
    The Living Daylights: 7

    By the elements, Goldfinger still sets the golden standard.
  • YouHaveAnOddJobYouHaveAnOddJob
    Posts: 136
    PTS: GF (Absolute classic Bond and the first with nothing to do with rest of film, Positively shocking.)
    Title Track: TLD (I love GF, but this tune has always been one of my favs)
    Title Credits: GF (Classicness again, best of the projector titles)
    Main Villain: GF (come on, it is Auric Goldfinger afterall!)
    Main Bond Girl: TLD (Always had a thing for Mariam)
    Overall Plot: TLD (Just a really fun and plot turning film)
    Dialogue: GF (I mean come on, I can quote nearly this whole film)
    Score: TLD (good use of theme, and I just love it!)
    Settings: TLD (more exotic)
    Action: TLD (lot more action)
    Humor: GF (Connery wit)
    Cinematography: TLD (some great shot scenes, just thinking of the plane scene!)
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: GF (Fort Knox climax anyone?)
    Minor Characters: TLD ( really great ones in this film for sure)
    Glamour: GF (gold lots of it)
    Ally: TLD (Saunders)

    9-8 The Living Daylights, very very close one on this! I adore both these films!
  • sirseanisbondsirseanisbond
    Posts: 2,189
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: GF
    Overall Plot: GF
    Dialogue: GF
    Score: GF
    Settings: GF
    Action: GF
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: GF
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: GF
    Minor Characters: GF
    Glamour: GF
    Ally: GF

    16 - 0 Goldfinger, it's better in every single way, period!
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    sirseanisbond wrote:
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: GF
    Overall Plot: GF
    Dialogue: GF
    Score: GF
    Settings: GF
    Action: GF
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: GF
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: GF
    Minor Characters: GF
    Glamour: GF
    Ally: GF

    16 - 0 Goldfinger, it's better in every single way, period!

    You've missed out the PTS.
  • delticminerdelticminer
    Posts: 115
    PTS: The Living Daylights. No contest.
    Title Track: The Living Daylights. Goldfinger is highly overrated.
    Title Credits: The Living Daylights
    Main Villain: The Living Daylights. Whitaker sucks, but Goldfinger is annoying and overrated, and I really like Koskov.
    Main Bond Girl: The Living Daylights. Pussy Galore doesn't get enough screen time.
    Overall Plot: The Living Daylights. Again, no contest.
    Dialogue: Goldfinger
    Score: The Living Daylights
    Settings: The Living Daylights
    Action: The Living Daylights. No contest once more.
    Humor: The Living Daylights, only by the skin of it's teeth this time.
    Cinematography: The Living Daylights
    Benign Bizarre: Goldfinger
    Suspense: The Living Daylights.
    Minor Characters: The Living Daylights (Goldfinger had minor characters?)
    Glamour: Goldfinger
    Ally: The Living Daylights

    The Living Daylights 14
    Goldfinger 3

    Seems about right. TLD being my favourite film in the series., while Goldfinger is a top 10 but overrated film.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    I just watched both back to back yesterday, I must re-evaluate:

    PTS: The Living Daylights
    Title Track: The Living Daylights
    Title Credits: The Living Daylights
    Main Villain: The Living Daylights
    Main Bond Girl: The Living Daylights
    Overall Plot: The Living Daylights
    Dialogue: The Living Daylights
    Score: The Living Daylights
    Settings: The Living Daylights
    Action: The Living Daylights
    Humor: The Living Daylights
    Cinematography: The Living Daylights
    Benign Bizarre: Goldfinger
    Suspense: The Living Daylights
    Minor Characters: The Living Daylights
    Glamour: The Living Daylights
    Ally: The Living Daylights

    16 - 1 for The Living Daylights.

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2014 Posts: 11,189
    The fact that the GF pre-title sequence has the "shocking" line surely makes it the winner?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    BAIN123 wrote:
    The fact that the GF pre-title sequence has the "shocking" line surely makes it the winner?
    Both are great, but "Better make that two" wins because... DALTON!
  • 00Beast00Beast
    edited June 2014 Posts: 4,762
    PTS: Goldfinger
    Title Track: The Living Daylights
    Title Credits: The Living Daylights
    Main Villain: The Living Daylights
    Main Bond Girl: The Living Daylights (hate both of them, but it's the lesser of two evils here, I suppose)
    Overall Plot: Goldfinger (much easier to follow)
    Dialogue: The Living Daylights
    Score: The Living Daylights
    Settings: The Living Daylights
    Action: The Living Daylights
    Humor: Goldfinger
    Cinematography: The Living Daylights
    Benign Bizarre: Goldfinger
    Suspense: The Living Daylights
    Minor Characters: Goldfinger
    Glamour: The Living Daylights
    Ally: The Living Daylights

    GF: 5
    TLD: 12

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