Are there any women here on MI6?

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  • Posts: 19,339
    A bit OTT there DC007,i can understand where you are coming from re the emphasis on Craig in the water but to sack Craig and Dench over what most people,me included,think is a damn good Bond film is a bit 'mad'.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    A bit OTT there DC007,i can understand where you are coming from re the emphasis on Craig in the water but to sack Craig and Dench over what most people,me included,think is a damn good Bond film is a bit 'mad'.
    I didn't say to sack Craig and Dench over CR, but over the Bond in drags 'Women Day' advert (as seen on the clip in my post).
  • Posts: 19,339
    Ah i see..
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    At least the commercial brought awareness to a stressing issue, instead of dressing Dan up for nothing. It is a bit weird I'll agree, but I've seen actors do stranger things.
  • Posts: 4,622
    Craig as Bond in a dress, promoting a feminist propaganda piece. Shudder. Not one of Bond's finest moments. Good Babs moment though. Its got her pc stamp all over it. Poor Craig just really doesn't have a clue. Babs has him wrapped around her pinky.
    OK I will give you guys Solange in a bikini. Close enough. Even Valenka. Eon isn't shying away from showcasing beautiful babes, but I do fear that given Babs feminazi nature we won't be getting any good ole fashioned girls in two piece shots anymore.
    As for Connery in a bathing suit, its no where near the same as Craig's gratuitous rising from the surf ala Ursula Andress. Sean was rather, simply being Bond, going about the business of being Bond whilst wearing a bathing suit. The emphasis was not on his bod but rather on what was going on in the scene.
    Craig's erupting from the surf scene was all about the worshipping of the Craig bod. For the first time in 21 films we get the sexual objectification of Bond. The Babs touch. No doubt getting even for all the sexual objectification of women in previous films. You go girl!

  • First of all, I have to ask what a feminazi is and why Barbara Brocolli is one. This isn't a word that I hear in polite conversation so I can't comment until I know more.

    As for the women in two piece bathing suits there are many Bond girls that don't wear them. Tatiana wasn't in one in FRWL, Pussy wasn't in one in GF, Tracy wasn't in one in OHMSS, Kara wasn't in one in TLD...in fact, all of these leading ladies were very covered up in their appearances. So it's not like a leading lady *not* being in a bikini is some new thing that we've never seen in a Bond film before.

    And the thing that I don't understand is the problem with Bond being shown as sexually attractive. As far back as the early 60s Bond was described as the man that "men wanted to be and women wanted between their sheets". It's pretty clear that for women he's always been seen as an object of sexual attraction. There's a reason that Connery was seen shirtless so many times in his films and it's not because of a limited wardrobe budget leading to a lack of shirts...I remember the mother of a girlfriend telling me once how all those shirtless scenes with Connery made the women swoon in the 60s. Seeing his visible stomach muscles and the fact that he had a "manly" hairy chest (at a time when Hollywood stars were required to shave theirs) made her and her friends light-headed with desire. Now to get that same effect there might need to be a little more emphasis in the framing or lighting but it's simply a modern version of what was done before.

    Having Craig in a bathing suit doesn't offend me nor does it take away from the film in any way. In fact, I find that it adds to the playful nature of the film and that it's fun, escapist entertainment - for the women in the audience who pay for tickets as well as the men. I really can't understand why it would bother a guy.

    And if Barbara Brocolli was "getting even for all the sexual objectification of women in previous films" then how do you explain all the objectifying shots of women in CR? Or Bond having a liking for married women because it makes things "easier" for him? Or his casual treatment of Solange - dumping her as soon as she's outlived her usefulness and then commenting that he doesn't feel emotions about her being tortured and killed?
  • TRSTN1TRSTN1 Tokio,North Dakota U.S.A
    Posts: 11
    Well i grew up on the James Bond Movies
  • Posts: 4,622
    First of all, I have to ask what a feminazi is and why Barbara Brocolli is one. This isn't a word that I hear in polite conversation so I can't comment until I know more.?
    You need to get out more then.

    As for the women in two piece bathing suits there are many Bond girls that don't wear them……..
    No kidding. My point was that we are not likely to see any more. In fact that’s what I said. I hope I am wrong.

    And the thing that I don't understand is the problem with Bond being shown as sexually attractive……….
    Again you miss the point. Of course he's sexually attractive but the Craig rising from water scene is hardly comparable to any Bond sans- top scenes that we have seen before

    Having Craig in a bathing suit doesn't offend me nor does it take away from the film in any way.
    Why would anyone be offended? It’s simply cringe worthy, in light of how Bond has always been portrayed. ie never as an object of sexual objectification. Again, it’s the Babs touch. At least she didn’t put him in a speedo and have him do a Chippendale routine. Small mercies.

    And if Barbara Brocolli was "getting even for all the sexual objectification of women in previous films" then how do you explain all the objectifying shots of women in CR?
    Easy, Bond films have always sexually objectified women, at least in terms of gratuitous shots. It’s part of the Bond mythos. Babs decided to add Bond himself to the mix. Cringe worthy. Very un-Bond like. At least she let it go for QoS. There is that at least.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    Tatiana had the 'My mouth is too big' scene, which trumps any sexyness of the Bond girls in the Craig films by a trillion miles.
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited August 2011 Posts: 348
    And if Barbara Brocolli was "getting even for all the sexual objectification of women in previous films" then how do you explain all the objectifying shots of women in CR?

    I count one.
  • Posts: 4,622
    I count one.
    She must have missed that in post-production. Fire the editor!

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,244
    @timmer terms like feminazi do have a far greater impact in Europe then they might have in the US. Personally I'd think it's very distastefull, but I know how Americans treat (nazi)history and I know how Europeans do. Please note that comparing feminists, whatever your stance on their movement, to mass murderers, occupiers etc. is very harsh in the ears of those who've had close family members endure that period.

    To be honest I don't really ft the problem with the scene in question. Bond looks at Solange and we see her as he does, dismounting a horse. Then she looks his way and we see him as she does. Indeed, Bond has always been an object of desire for women in the audience too, and women, these days, do want more then they did in the sixties. If I understand modern feminism Craig's about the opposite of what they want. But then again, that's a big ' if'. Allthough I must say David Arnold's music is a bit over the top. Daniel Craig himself stated quite a few times he thought the scene was a bit OTT and he wouldn't do it again. Saying it ruined a further perfect film would say more about the person saying this then about the film. It's one, short, scene!
  • Posts: 289
    I liked Bond coming out of the water like he did....i went ohh wow thats James Bond...
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    I liked Bond coming out of the water like he did....i went ohh wow thats James Bond...
    No, you see, that's the thought I had when seeing Bond wear the tux while walking up to the casino. Bare-chested Craig is just any man with muscles. The scene was an appetiser for women, nothing more.

  • edited August 2011 Posts: 4,622
    @timmer terms like feminazi do have a far greater impact in Europe then they might have in the US. Personally I'd think it's very distastefull, but I know how Americans treat (nazi)history and I know how Europeans do.
    The term does get bandied about quite a lot over here. To wit, Seinfeld's famous "soup-nazi" schtick, which has become almost part of the vernacular.
    .... Bare-chested Craig is just any man with muscles. The scene was an appetiser for women, nothing more.
    And don't forget gay men. Men (both gay and straight) are far more responsive to such visual stimuli. In fact I think the scene was aimed at gay men, moreso than women. Women have always been titillated by Bond's general manliness and savoir faire but this was Bond gold for the gay male.
    Either way (aimed at gay male or female or both) the Bond universe was altered with that scene. As Blueblood suggested on old Mi6, Bond instead of now watching the object of desire, is now watched.
    Bond instead has become that object.

  • Posts: 8
    Would that really bother Bond, though? To have women look at him as a sexual object, I mean - if the theory is that Bond wants to shag beautiful women and move on, having women see him as someone they want to shag and move on from should surely suit him down to the ground, no? Seems to me it fits in perfectly well.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,244
    I liked Bond coming out of the water like he did....i went ohh wow thats James Bond...
    No, you see, that's the thought I had when seeing Bond wear the tux while walking up to the casino. Bare-chested Craig is just any man with muscles. The scene was an appetiser for women, nothing more.

    If @Char35t is indeed female or gay, I don't see the contradiction here (especially considereing the discussion above). Then it would be ' yes, but I think that when he wears his tux'. ne'st pas?

    @timmer I think that's a sad thing. Too few people understand history, and inflating a word like that does more harm then good. But tht's a side note, of course.

    @santa I never heard a guy complain about the interest women showed when they did. More the other way round, really.

  • edited August 2011 Posts: 4,622
    @timmer I think that's a sad thing. Too few people understand history, and inflating a word like that does more harm then good. But tht's a side note, of course.
    I think you are right. Probably best to stay away from it.
    Would that really bother Bond, though? To have women look at him as a sexual object, I mean - if the theory is that Bond wants to shag beautiful women and move on, having women see him as someone they want to shag and move on from should surely suit him down to the ground, no? Seems to me it fits in perfectly well.
    The question of whether Bond would like it or not. I don't know. He's fictional but I don't think he would fuss over women "objectifiying him" He's a guy. It's not usually an issue.
    Anyway its moot. Its not like the fictional character can have an opinion on how he is depicted in movies. Whether we the viewer like this depiction is a matter of opinion though. To each his own.

    But what we do have is a shift in direction by Eon as to how Bond is portrayed. Like it or hate it or somewhere inbetween.

    I vote, don't like it! And I am happy to be in the minority. :)




  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,128
    We used to have a few more girls around here. Though some of them disappeared to other forums, for one reason or another.
    We do still have a few old woman frequent the site from time to time, but their appearances are often brief.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    The problem with any opinion about Bond is that it's easy to find an alternative argument somewhere in the 22 film history.

    I don't personally see how BB could have influenced the decision to have Craig rise from the sea in speedos. I imagine it was in the script and filmed by the director (rather than them doing what BB asked).
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    I don't personally see how BB could have influenced the decision to have Craig rise from the sea in speedos. I imagine it was in the script and filmed by the director (rather than them doing what BB asked).
    Purvis&Wade are Babs' own little puppies, so it's not a stretch to think she ordered them to put it there.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,128
    I don't personally see how BB could have influenced the decision to have Craig rise from the sea in speedos. I imagine it was in the script and filmed by the director (rather than them doing what BB asked).
    Purvis&Wade are Babs' own little puppies, so it's not a stretch to think she ordered them to put it there.
    Why?
    What evidence is there to suggest this to be true?
    It's fair enough if you don't have faith in what happens behind the camera, but to blame one person for all the wrong doings, as you see them is just silly.
    This isn't aimed at you DC, but I often feel there are plenty of 'crazies' on the internet when rumours and gossip are concerned. Luckily they are mostly on other sites, with few here.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited August 2011 Posts: 13,355
    From interviews with Craig the original idea was for him just to stand up in the sea but due to the water being deeper than first thought he ended up having the walk towards the camera, hence the rising towards the viewer shot we got.

    Craig himself knew this shot would stick as soon as he realised it could be labeled an Ursula Andress impersonation and according to him said "Oh, ****" when he knew what the shot was beginning to look like.

    So, no, no one "put it there". It was one thing that become something else and very different than intended.
  • Posts: 8
    We used to have a few more girls around here. Though some of them disappeared to other forums, for one reason or another.
    We do still have a few old woman frequent the site from time to time, but their appearances are often brief.
    "old woman" That may explain why. :)

  • Artemis81Artemis81 In Christmas Land
    Posts: 543
    We used to have a few more girls around here. Though some of them disappeared to other forums, for one reason or another.
    We do still have a few old woman frequent the site from time to time, but their appearances are often brief.
    "old woman" That may explain why. :)

    :-)) Yeah, if I was being called that, forget it, I'll go somewhere else. :-h
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,128
    No need to worry chaps, t'was just in jest. A little humour. ;-)
  • Yes....
  • Posts: 289
    i am male but not gay, sorry to disappoint...
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,244
    i am male but not gay, sorry to disappoint...
    Oh, no dissapointment, but it would have helped my argument if you had been. ;)
  • Yes....me.

    :)

    I take the women here are quite outnumbered?
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