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Is a black James Bond inevitable ?

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Here you go @lordtheflasheart.
    http://licencetoblog.wordpress.com/2009/06/20/jamesbond-and-racism/
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    And here's from the original Casino Royale webste. No 'race', but definately Scottisch-Frensh-Swiss background.
    http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/casinoroyale/site/flash.html
    Check out the Wikipedia too. His background IS important and used time and time again.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Awesome link @CommanderRoss. The dossier was brilliant.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    I have some problems with the Bond dossier, but it is still very interesting.
  • timmertimmer
    edited August 2011 Posts: 4,622

    Timmer, the reason that I say that Bond is described as "British secret agent" isn't because it's only MY descriptor - that's how he was always described in write-ups of the films in the TV guides or movie reviews that I read. I have NEVER read anywhere where he is described as "white secret agent James Bond" in a plot write up or review, however I will obviously admit I'm wrong if you post a link to movie reviews or writeups or plot summaries that describe him that way.
    The fact that Bond is described as a British secret agent is immaterial. Of course he is a British secret agent. And it doesn't matter that he is never described as white in movie reviews or print. (Brown's excellent blog post aside). In fact that only re-inforces his assumed whiteness. His whiteness goes without saying. There is no need to draw attention to it.
    If Bond were suddenly to be portrayed as black or Asian or whatever it would no longer be the same character. Rather it would be a black version or interpretation of the character, but no longer the original character.
    In fact I can't think of a whiter character in fiction than James Bond. (Snow White maybe). Bond is an iconic cultural image who is both decidedly British and decidedly white.

  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    Sorry to bring this 'controversial' thread back, but I had a thought yesterday as I watched Mission: Impossible III.

    Why not make M a black man? That would actually be sort of cool! Hell, Colin Salmon would even be about the right age too!
    But I mean think about it- this thread has shown that lots of people are on the fence on a black James Bond (personally I don't think I'd like it, but I'd still be a Bond fan of course) so a black M would be a great way to 'test the waters'

    Thoughts?
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    If Harris is cast in Bond 23, as Moneypenny she'll "test the waters" enough in my opinion.
  • Mark_HazardMark_Hazard
    Posts: 65

    You can change your hair color any day of the week, but never your skin color.
    How quickly Michael Jackson is forgotten.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    edited September 2011 Posts: 7,653

    You can change your hair color any day of the week, but never your skin color.
    How quickly Michael Jackson is forgotten.
    They told him to beat it..............So he did.

    %-(
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694

    You can change your hair color any day of the week, but never your skin color.
    How quickly Michael Jackson is forgotten.
    They told him to beat it..............So he did.

    %-(
    Quit the sick jokes. People never quite mature do they?
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    I don't think a black James Bond is inevitable. There is nothing that says he must be white, but that doesn't automatically mean there will one day be a black Bond. I think the only reason why it was discussed in the first place was because P.Diddy's career was rapidly crumbling, and because he is both vain and selfish in equal measure. He saw other black men succeeding in areas that had, until then, been dominated by white men - for example, a black President in Barack Obama, and a black Formula 1 World Champion in Lewis Hamilton - and he could not bear the thought that black people could experience that kind of success without him being in on the action.

    In the end, Diddy really saw himself as being representative of a generation. He started out in the hip-hop community in the early 1990s, and worked with the likes of The Notorious B.I.G. and served as producer for everyone from Aretha Franklin to Usher, so he probably felt that he had the right to claim he gave voice to that generation. But, after his weapons and assault charges in 1999-2000, he slowly began to fade from public view. Other, more prominent and more successful artists and producers - like Jay-Z, Kanye West, etc. - began to emerge, and Diddy ceded his empire to them. Of course, he didn't exactly do it willingly, and still considered himself to be the voice of a generation and a powerful person in his own right, however misguided he actually was. That much is obvious from his "audition tape" for Bond, which he dedicated to Martin Luther King, Muhammad Ali and Barack Obama; he clearly felt he belonged in the same category as them. However, unable to reclaim his position, he instead looked elsewhere for the power, the position and the recognition he craved, and so called for a black James Bond and put himself forward as a candidate.

    That's the only reason why talk of a black James Bond began - because P.Diddy thought he was more important than he actually is.
  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 1,994
    -- as much as the pc/progressive crowd might wish it--

    Timmer, seriously? You're really going to go there? I'm progressive and my response is, No, hell No.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited September 2011 Posts: 8,266
    I don't think a black James Bond is inevitable. There is nothing that says he must be white, but that doesn't automatically mean there will one day be a black Bond. I think the only reason why it was discussed in the first place was because P.Diddy's career was rapidly crumbling, and because he is both vain and selfish in equal measure. He saw other black men succeeding in areas that had, until then, been dominated by white men - for example, a black President in Barack Obama, and a black Formula 1 World Champion in Lewis Hamilton - and he could not bear the thought that black people could experience that kind of success without him being in on the action.

    In the end, Diddy really saw himself as being representative of a generation. He started out in the hip-hop community in the early 1990s, and worked with the likes of The Notorious B.I.G. and served as producer for everyone from Aretha Franklin to Usher, so he probably felt that he had the right to claim he gave voice to that generation. But, after his weapons and assault charges in 1999-2000, he slowly began to fade from public view. Other, more prominent and more successful artists and producers - like Jay-Z, Kanye West, etc. - began to emerge, and Diddy ceded his empire to them. Of course, he didn't exactly do it willingly, and still considered himself to be the voice of a generation and a powerful person in his own right, however misguided he actually was. That much is obvious from his "audition tape" for Bond, which he dedicated to Martin Luther King, Muhammad Ali and Barack Obama; he clearly felt he belonged in the same category as them. However, unable to reclaim his position, he instead looked elsewhere for the power, the position and the recognition he craved, and so called for a black James Bond and put himself forward as a candidate.

    That's the only reason why talk of a black James Bond began - because P.Diddy thought he was more important than he actually is.
    Well he'd never qualify, he's a colonial, isn't he? ;)
    Perhaps I'm wrong in this, but that racial black/white thing is really an American issue. Here we just discriminate on Northern Africans and/ or muslims, and the Brits have such with Pakistani I understand. So if he'd really wanted to make a point, he should've promoted a Pakistani Bond. Something I also consider ridiculous.

    Well, it aint the first time Americans tried to steal European history, is it?

  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    I'm always wary about getting into disputes about skin colors/racial diversities but I think that Bond should always remain as white and if possible, English, (British to a wider extent), but nothing too exotic or flamboyant.

    A colored Bond, while not a problem, just doesn't sound right, is that what Fleming intended?
  • GrantGrant
    Posts: 140
    This PC thread irks the hell out of me! One of the reasons is that it is not original. Why does it have to be a 'black' man. Why not:

    Is an Indian James Bond inevitable? or Is a Japanese James Bond inevitable?

    These are ridiculous questions. Unfortunately we are living in an increasingly ridiculous world.
  • filletfillet
    Posts: 1
    James Bond will never be portrayed by a black actor.
    I can't even imagine a black James Bond, apart from in a joke.
    I am not a racist. I am a realist.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited September 2011 Posts: 12,837
    i think they shouldn't cast a black bond for the sake of it, but if a talented actor that fits the part happened to be black (and british of course), by all means cast him. take colin salmone who autditioned when craig was cast, he would've been perfect and he just so happens to be black.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    i think they shouldn't cast a black bond for the sake of it, but if a talented actor that fits the part happened to be black (and british of course), by all means cast him. take colin salmone who autditioned when craig was cast, he would've been perfect and he just so happens to be black.
    Why would he've gotten the part when he was already in the Brosnan films?! He wasn't even good in those.
  • Geo_BayGeo_Bay
    edited September 2011 Posts: 44
    If a black actor was cast I would no longer see the films, not because I am racist, but because it would be the final nail in the coffin of the original character.

    This is ridiculous! You might as well ask, could a white man play Nelson Mandella in a film?! X_X

    EON decided they were not interested in the original character and just interested in making money when they cast Roger Moore.

    If they think a black actor will make them more money than white, then they will do it.

    But in my eyes, Bond is a dark haired, hard faced, 6'1", scar faced, smoking, drinking, pleasure seeking, white man. :)
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    edited September 2011 Posts: 4,813
    Jackie Chan as James Bond. If you have any problem with it, you're racist. :p
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    Wasn't Cuba Gooding Jr. considered at one point?
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    If a black actor was cast I would no longer see the films, not because I am racist, but because it would be the final nail in the coffin of the original character.

    This is ridiculous! You might as well ask, could a white man play Nelson Mandella in a film?! X_X

    EON decided they were not interested in the original character and just interested in making money when they cast Roger Moore.

    If they think a black actor will make them more money than white, then they will do it.

    But in my eyes, Bond is a dark haired, hard faced, 6'1", scar faced, smoking, drinking, pleasure seeking, white man. :)

    Good summing up as it's not about racism, but skin color is a major factor here and Bond has to be white, it's what Fleming intended and I hope I never see the day if they go down the 'colored Bond' avenue, it's a lame idea and I hope this never sees the light of day

    Bond has to be, for the good of the franchise, White and British, ok, we've had Irish and Australian ACTORS but not necessarily BOND'S, i.e. we never take much notice of the actors nationality once we see the releases but at the end of the day as stated, Bond really should be as British as er, fish and chips or something, and as for colored Bond, meh, not for me.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    Well this video shows what the public (of America) think about a black Bond. There's also contributions from three familiar faces.

    I just happened to come across this yesterday, so I'm very glad this topic was created.

    This video may bring up some nice discussion points:

    Wow! Thanks for posting that video. After watching it I think Idris Elba would actually make a decent Bond.
    When it comes down to it, they need to cast someone who can pull off Bond... nuff said.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    edited September 2011 Posts: 1,986
    The funniest thing is hearing people say "Yeah he can be black, time to shake things up" followed by "James Bond has to be English, has to come from the UK".

    If James Bond can be black, he can be a fat homosexual little person from Jamaica with purple hair about to get a sex change. Why keep some integrity to the character in keeping him English when you change 40 years of history as an established character to make him black?

    Is it inevitable? I sure hope not. Integrity, history, I hope these are still relevant.
  • The_ReaperThe_Reaper
    edited September 2011 Posts: 1,092

    Only FRWL and OHMSS are anywhere close of their respective sources,
    This is such a ridiculous statement I had to quote it and call you out. What on earth are you talking about? You've never read DN or GF? What about TB? CR? All of these are just as close to the source material as the two you mentioned. CR is the least similiar but that is b/c it was updated for the 21st century. I question your concept of reality sometimes. A lot, actually.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2011 Posts: 15,718

    Only FRWL and OHMSS are anywhere close of their respective sources,
    This is such a ridiculous statement I had to quote it and call you out. What on earth are you talking about? You've never read DN or GF? What about TB? CR? All of these are just as close to the source material as the two you mentioned. CR is the least similiar but that is b/c it was updated for the 21st century. I question your concept of reality sometimes. A lot, actually.
    Alright, I should have said DN, GF and TB. But CR is totally un-Fleming and un-Bond. There's this character that happens to be called James Bond. That's the only link it has with Fleming and the Bond franchise. I cannot call CR a Bond film, since it isn't one. Moore in TMWTGG is much closer to Fleming than Craig could ever hope to be.

    Please. let me laugh. CR is as un-Bond an un-Fleming as you can get. Well, almost, since QOS beat that. I cannot consider Craig a Bond actor, and neither CR and QOS as Bond films. For me the series ended with DAD, which is miles better than the last 2 films. I really hope the series starts again with Bond 23 next year.
  • The_ReaperThe_Reaper
    Posts: 1,092
    As far as the discussion at hand goes, Bond should NEVER be black or any other non-white race. That's ridiculous and anyone that thinks otherwise is clueless. Sorry if that is harsh but that's how I feel. No more PC for the franchise, thanks. How far from Fleming must we go? He wrote the character as a white British agent and while the actors may have been from other places they still spoke with the right accent (sans Connery's slips).

    What's next? Making Spiderman a 70 year old Russian instead of a teenager from NY!? Please.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    i think they shouldn't cast a black bond for the sake of it, but if a talented actor that fits the part happened to be black (and british of course), by all means cast him. take colin salmone who autditioned when craig was cast, he would've been perfect and he just so happens to be black.
    Why would he've gotten the part when he was already in the Brosnan films?! He wasn't even good in those.
    all he did in the brosnan films was stand next to M talking so he didnt exactly have the chance to pull of an award winning performance. and it doesnt matter that he was in the brosnan films because CR was a reboot. brosnan apparently saw salmone as a potential successor, and he was apparently seriously considered for the part when craig won the role.
  • nick_007nick_007 Ville Marie
    Posts: 443
    If they ever cast a black James Bond his first film should be a 100% faithful adaptation of LALD. ;;)
  • SexpionageSexpionage Suspended
    Posts: 49
    if our society ever gets to the point where that it's so politically correct James bond becomes a black man, I will put a bullet in my head..

    in all seriousness though this topic disgusts me. Since were playing change the race game, how about a movie about Martin Luther King Jr played by a white guy. or a movie about Barack Obama played by a white guy??? huh? ?
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