SPECTRE Production Timeline

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  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Nah we've done much with female femme fatale... in Bond and out of Bond. Big strong dude cool rehash. And yes the audience defines if iconic. But they can present an interesting character to try. Just like most with Craig and Mendes I would expect a modern interpretation. Less cheeky as an Odd job or a Jaws. But ugh don't want a Mr. Kill either lol.
  • Posts: 1,631
    I wasn't advocating a femme fatale. That's been done, although not done nearly as much in the Bond franchise as the "big strong dude" henchman, which we've seen in From Russia With Love, Goldfinger, The Spy Who Loved Me, Moonraker, For Your Eyes Only, The Living Daylights, and Tomorrow Never Dies.

    I'm advocating a female character whose defining characteristic is her physicality, not her charms or her looks, which would be more in line with the femme fatale idea. Sure, such a character should be beautiful as well, which would make for an interesting dynamic between her beauty and the fact that she could take Bond out with her bare hands, but it shouldn't be the defining aspect of the character.
  • Posts: 15,123
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    JWESTBROOK wrote: »
    The only problem is language. I think he does speak a little English but in all the interviews I've seen of his he has a translator.

    I'd like it if he didn't speak though. I think there's something creepy about the way Jaws and (especially) Oddjob are conpletely silent.

    Patrice never spoke. I don't think they should pull that "trait" again so soon.

    Absolutely agreed. This the silent menace thing is wearing thin.

    Depends how you do it. Patrice was not really a henchman anyway, not like Oddjob or Jaws. He was a contracted killer.
  • Posts: 15,123
    A very talkative, short, stocky, Mediterranean looking henchman?
  • Posts: 908
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    JWESTBROOK wrote: »
    The only problem is language. I think he does speak a little English but in all the interviews I've seen of his he has a translator.

    I'd like it if he didn't speak though. I think there's something creepy about the way Jaws and (especially) Oddjob are conpletely silent.

    Patrice never spoke. I don't think they should pull that "trait" again so soon.

    Absolutely agreed. This the silent menace thing is wearing thin.

    Depends how you do it. Patrice was not really a henchman anyway, not like Oddjob or Jaws. He was a contracted killer.

    You have got a point here. Still yet the silent henchmen is nothing original these days and hard to top in the fearsome factor, when you consider where movies have brought us. Just remember the silent guy in Sin city who wouldn't even talk, when he was eaten alive. I just don't believe the producers have the originality needed to better this at their disposal these days. Also just as others have mentioned it is really time that the most muscular Bond in history gets a real frightening opponent physical wise. It strikes me as kind of ironic that Craigs Bond should sail into the mists of movie history with only opponents like LeChiffre and Green and none of the likes of Grant, Oddjob and Jaws. Hell, what had they have him bulk up so much for,when his Tomb Raider physique was so much more special forces like?
  • Posts: 15,123
    Maybe because Craig has been the most lethal Bond in a long while, they have found it difficult to create a henchman that would match him, let alone look like he could easily overpower Craig Bond with his brute strength alone. That and the fact that henchmen has been done and done and done, in the Bond franchise and others. The Aryan villain especially.

    My idea: do the anti-Grant. Have the henchman dark (Mediterranean looking as I mentioned) and mouthy. I don't want a Bane clone, but I thought they took the right approach in TDKR: a circus strong man villain, slow but deadly, who taunts the hero as he humiliates him.
  • Posts: 12,526
    They should get Nikolai Valuev! He's been retired from boxing for a few years so he won't be too busy and he'd make the perfect henchman. He's massive (7 foot tall, over 300 pounds), he's ugly and he's Russian.

    Yeah he's not an actor but most of the time the henchman hardly says anything (or in some cases doesn't speak at all) anyway and they said they were looking at people from a sports background.

    EON, if you're reading this, give him a ring.

    EDIT: Just looked it up and he's actually done one or two acting gigs too so chances are he'd be up for it. Make this happen EON! Please! If you do this then I'll have faith in you no matter what, even if you bring back Lee Tamahori or Marc Forster for Bond 25 :P

    I also have been championing Valuev as the mammoth goon henchman to take on Craig's Bond! It would be epic due to the sheer size of the man! [-O< :-c :-bd
  • Posts: 1,993
    The last thing this series needs in another Jaws, a live action version of Wylie Coyote.
    Rather than iconic, moronic is a more apt term. Chewing through cable, surviving a fall from an airplane, etc. made the series feel like the predecessor of Austin Powers rather than the object of its parody.

    It's time for an iconic henchman to be menacing and threatening without being preposterous. Please, no more throwing barbells at his chest and they just bounce off.

    And big doesn't always have to be a criterion. Heath Ledger's Joker and Roman Polanski in Chinatown are two of examples of bad guys not being physically imposing, but nonetheless scary.

    The series can lighten up a bit, but the pendulum doesn't need to swing back to
    the era of RM.

    More than even this series needs to bold, clever, and inventive.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    In general, I am really glad to have a henchman in this mix for Bond 24. A well written part properly cast would make it great.

    At least they are bringing in that kind of character, which is new for Craig's Bond. My doubts about Bond films are pretty much always with the way a part is written. A strong henchman, though, is a very good idea, especially now. It has been many years without a strong henchman. The role can be memorable without dipping into complete homage or buffoonery. It gives me something new (for Craig's Bond) to look forward to.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The role can be memorable without dipping into complete homage or buffoonery.

    This is my worry.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes - hence my emphasis on the script. I agree, I don't want this to go into campiness or complete homage. I want a strong henchman, but more originality and the part to be well written.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    I can see where @RC7 is concerned and agree with him. I don't want to be told how to watch or enjoy a film. If a character is memorable, enjoyable or 'iconic', then I like to make my own mind up. Also, the cartoonish style of characters like Jaws is something I don't want in the Craig films. His first two films were more serious in tone and story. And for the most part more believable. Skyfall added more humour and a few homages to the past, that lightened the tone a little. But I would rather have the darker Bond that we got with Casino Royale.
    If these stories are true, then it sounds like we're going to get the Craig version of Moonraker. Bigger...bigger...BIGGER!
    And it concerns me a little.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 4,619
    Yawn. I really don't want to see a "fun" Bond film filled with references in 2015. What I'm hoping for is a SAM MENDES film with James Bond in it. Judi Dench and the Aston Martin DB5 are fortunately eliminated. Let's move forward instead of looking back again!
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Jaws did not start out as a cartoonish style of character and he did not have to go in that direction.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    talos7 wrote: »
    Jaws did not start out as a cartoonish style of character and he did not have to go in that direction.

    It didn't take long--specifically, when he dropped the rock on his own foot.

  • Posts: 1,631
    talos7 wrote: »
    Jaws did not start out as a cartoonish style of character and he did not have to go in that direction.

    He didn't have to go in that direction, but as @echo said, it's pretty clear that was the direction that EON wanted him to go in from the start. He's a menacing character at first, and does maintain quite a bit of that menace, but he becomes cartoonish rather early on, especially in that moment where he drops the rock on his foot.

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Oh, no doubt, they took a more lighthearted route with Jaws rather quickly. What I feel is that an Iconic, classic, henchman who is more than a match physically for Bond can fit in this modern era of the series. Red Grant was largely silent and menacing. I think that made the scenes where he interacted with Bond, in a fairly sophisticated manner, more suspenseful. The audience was made aware of what a threat he was and what a danger he represents to Bond.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited August 2014 Posts: 4,399
    Stamper, Zao, Elvis, Patrice, all of them were crap

    i wouldn't really call Elvis or Patrice henchmen.... that term "henchmen" gets thrown around a bit too candidly when talking about random baddies in a Bond film... I do remember the guy who plays Elvis in article, calling himself a henchman - and he was even referred to on this site as henchman during his casting... but seeing him in the film, he was no henchman... he was just another goon - the same as Patrice... neither built up enough significance or screen time to be rightfully labeled as "a henchman" in their respective films... god, i remember when Mr. Bullion in TWINE was lauded as the next classic Bond henchman - but his usage in the film was anything but...

    the last real henchman we got was Zao - whether he was good or not is anyone's own opinion (i thought he had potential, but was pretty useless).
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited August 2014 Posts: 14,582
    I think it's debatable whether Elvis is a true henchman or not- however, he did take on a henchman-like role when Greene summoned him to follow Bond at the party (just before Fields tripped him), and when he set him up with the gun near the end of the film. Kratt from CR had potential to be a decent henchman, but alas he pretty much just stood around in the background- besides, that film is already packed full of exceptional secondary villains, so it's no real loss there.
  • Posts: 75
    In QOS on the plane.

    Elvis asks "How much longer."

    And is completely ignored.

    What is the point of this scene let's see if Bond 24 can offer something better,
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I think there's an overreaction occurring here with this henchman business. I'm taking from this casting description that they're looking for someone who can fit the role of this character who they're looking to do something special with more so than just being a simple, standing around goon with no significant part to play. Everyone remembers Oddjob and Jaws regardless of if you liked them or not and I think that's what they want to do here for Bond 24; giving us a serious underboss for Bond, particularly Craig Bond to deal with.

    However, this doesn't mean we're going to get the silliness of what Jaws descended into; even the Brosnan era didn't give us a character that embarrassingly silly and I think the writing team along with Mendes and Craig's own input will ensure to prevent things from going to ridiculously silly places.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 2,599
    Well, if this Henchman will be portayed in the same light hearted tone as Jaws, then it's pretty clear the unfortunate direction this film is going to take. I'm not saying they will but who knows.

    @PanchitoPistoles

    "Let's move forward instead of looking back again!"

    Amen to that...and that goes for the humour too! By all means bring back the humour and a Mooresque film after Craig has left.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Well, you know, several of us have been stating for months we want a slightly lighter tone for Bond 24. For Bond to have some more enjoyment in this adventure. Without going overboard. So now that we have an "iconic henchman" compared physically to Jaws, it seems a few folks are making the leap to conclude that this news already means a swing too far in the "lighter tone" direction. We don't know that at all yet. It is a casting call for a physically imposing actor to play a henchman. Really it all needs balance.

    I want a henchman. I'm not getting concerned yet. If they hire Upton as a Bond girl, for example, I will be dismayed and concerned at that.
  • Posts: 2,491
    I want the "iconic henchman" to be Dwayne Johnson. He fits the role and he can definitelly act some comedy to the movie (well when I'll think of Jaws...maybe comedy strong henchman is a terrible idea)

    Plus his grandgrandfather or something once had a role in a Bond movie (but I can't remember which one was it :/ )
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    dragonsky wrote: »
    I want the "iconic henchman" to be Dwayne Johnson. He fits the role and he can definitelly act some comedy to the movie (well when I'll think of Jaws...maybe comedy strong henchman is a terrible idea)

    Plus his grandgrandfather or something once had a role in a Bond movie (but I can't remember which one was it :/ )

    His grandfather played the guy Bond fights in Osato's office in YOLT....

    but Dwayne Johnson is too big of a star on his own... i doubt they cast someone who is that recognizable for merely henchmen status.
  • Posts: 1,548
    Well for me this is the best bit of news so far. Why shouldn't Craig be allowed a classic sort of henchman? Why can't Craig have a more traditional Bond film?

    CR was a nice change of pace but I'm actually glad that they're moving back towards more old school Bond now. Skyfall started this by introducing Q and MP, adding more humour, etc. And now it looks like they're carrying on in this direction with Bond 24, and I'm glad.

    Someone else who I think would be a good henchman is Danny Trejo.
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    And since Valuev is an ex boxer .

    Well, quite a few boxing fans would argue that fact. His "technique" consisted solely on standing in the middle of the ring while letting his arms fall down on his opponent. But again, he looks like he could have survived Tchernobyl and should give Craig something to sink his teeth in!

    Fair enough, I can see where you're coming from. He was slow, his punching power wasn't great and like you said his technique was poor (although I think he's acknowledged that in interviews and he did work on improving his technique towards the end of his career).

    However, saying he wasn't a real boxer is unfair. He had good stamina, good endurance and a decent left jab. Plus we're criticising him now but he had a good long career. He was undefeated for most of his (almost 20 year long, 50 odd fight) pro career (and he only lost twice), he won the WBA world heavyweight title and not only was he never knocked out, wasn't he (I might be wrong here) never knocked down throughout his career?

    Sure he's not on the same level as say Wlad Kitschco and a lot of the hype around him was mainly down to his size but he was a decent boxer imo.
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    JWESTBROOK wrote: »
    The only problem is language. I think he does speak a little English but in all the interviews I've seen of his he has a translator.

    I'd like it if he didn't speak though. I think there's something creepy about the way Jaws and (especially) Oddjob are conpletely silent.

    Patrice never spoke. I don't think they should pull that "trait" again so soon.

    Absolutely agreed. This the silent menace thing is wearing thin.

    I think the problem with Patrice was not that he doesn't speak but because there's literally nothing interesting about him.

    The silent and menacing idea worked with Jaws and Oddjob because their actions spoke for them and because they both had memorable gimmicks.

    What did Patrice do? He shot an art dealer and he had two bland fights with Bond. Nothing as memorable as Oddjob crushing a golf ball, killing Tilly, beheading the statue, etc. And what was Patrice's gimmick, what did he have to make him stand out? Nothing. He was just a regular boring assassin, more of a plot device than a character.

    The silent menacing idea can really work well if done right (look at Oddjob and Jaws), and I suggested it because Nikolai Valuev (who I was suggesting for the henchman role) can't really speak English.

    Danny Trejo. Good call!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Danny Trejo feels like a Brosnan era casting choice.
  • Posts: 15,123
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I think there's an overreaction occurring here with this henchman business. I'm taking from this casting description that they're looking for someone who can fit the role of this character who they're looking to do something special with more so than just being a simple, standing around goon with no significant part to play. Everyone remembers Oddjob and Jaws regardless of if you liked them or not and I think that's what they want to do here for Bond 24; giving us a serious underboss for Bond, particularly Craig Bond to deal with.

    However, this doesn't mean we're going to get the silliness of what Jaws descended into; even the Brosnan era didn't give us a character that embarrassingly silly and I think the writing team along with Mendes and Craig's own input will ensure to prevent things from going to ridiculously silly places.

    Words of wisdom here.
  • Posts: 2,491
    I think that you can not make/cast iconic.

    Iconic happens.

    Did they thought "Oh boy covering this girl in gold will be popular 50 years from now" or "Ursula in bikini will be so great 50 years from now". No. They did what they thought was good for the film and it ended up being iconic on its own.

    On another hand Halle getting out of the water was supposed be "iconic" and "paying homage" much like the girl painted in oil from "Quantum of Solace" and both ended up being stupid.

  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    dragonsky wrote: »
    I think that you can not make/cast iconic.

    Iconic happens.

    Did they thought "Oh boy covering this girl in gold will be popular 50 years from now" or "Ursula in bikini will be so great 50 years from now". No. They did what they thought was good for the film and it ended up being iconic on its own.

    On another hand Halle getting out of the water was supposed be "iconic" and "paying homage" much like the girl painted in oil from "Quantum of Solace" and both ended up being stupid.

    They want to attract people for the casting, that's all. Of course iconic cannot be made, it just happens. But they need to attract people for the casting, so they are promissing they will go down in history. That's all it is.
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