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Which death affected you more ? Tracy or Vesper ? UPDATE : Or M ?

barryt007barryt007
edited April 2014 in Bond Movies Posts: 19,339
It is still the suddness of Tracy's death that gets to me more.She was so matched with Bond in personality and wit.and it wasa real shock when i saw that for the 1st time as i hadn't read the book at that time.

Vesper's death was more dramatic and,although it did affect me,it didn't compared to the 'out of the blue' shooting of Tracy.

UPDATE : Now with the shock death of M in SF ,could this be the one that affected you most ?

?
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Comments

  • BondBond
    Posts: 503
    Vesper's death was a bit sadder because she had betrayed Bond and was so guilty that she committed suicide, but I think Tracy's death is ultimately more impactful because she was Bond's first true love and it was all ended so abruptly.

    One major reason I hate Diamonds Are Forever is because of the wasted opportunity for Bond to really get revenge on Blofeld and be emotionally invested and vengeful in his hatred toward the villain. Obviously the difference in casting was a major reason for this, but I still think they should have taken Tracy's death into account.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    Tracy, no question. I felt James Bond loving her. Hats off to Hunt & Lazenby for that.
    Vesper was a great character, and Craig was excellent in CR, but the lady wasn't as important.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Vesper's death was well acted but it came in a scene that I don't believe should have made the film. A simple suicide, although far from PC, would have suited the film much better after Bond's recovery, I think.

    Tracy's death felt much more into place and sincere and Lazenby's performance was spot-on. It made me even more convinced this man needed a second film but let's not go there now. ;;)
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    The first time i watched OHMSS i was shocked, really.
    When i watched CR for the first time i was shocked, really.
  • CharlesManhattenCharlesManhatten
    Posts: 14
    Tracy didn't have a choice. I always thought Vesper overreacted to her betrayal of Bond and underestimated Bond's ability to protect her if she had chosen not to commit suicide.
  • largolargo
    Posts: 26
    Casino Royale was an excellent film and the death of Vesper ( very sexy lady) was very well played out and did affect me, but due to all the publicity these days you knew it was coming sooner rather than later. And Bond would not of been Bond without it.
    But Tracy's death was something that bought a tear to my eye as it was the response of George Lazenby that made the scene.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Of the two, Tracy. But I was still never convinced he truly loved her (in the film virsion this is). Bond was untameable. He left the love of his life and was bedding other women within mili-seconds? Maybe it was for Queen and country, but come on!
    I always felt he married her because he felt it was the only way to save her (uh-oh). It was a sense of duty. Or guilt. Or something that wasn't really love.
    I sense a debate arising...
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    i would have to say Tracey.. yes, she helped Bond against Blofeld - and so did her father... but she was still an innocent victim and didn't deserve her fate - especially so soon after being married..

    i feel for Vesper, as she was being played, and she did love Bond.. but she still sold him out, not once, but twice.... i might feel a tinge of sorrow - but still, what a bitch.. lol
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Tracy. Vesper's death was ruined by the Haggfish - as PK would say.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    Vesper´s death was quite impressive, but it doesn´t get near the simplicity of showing the hole in the windscreen followed by the hole in Tracy´s head. And Tracy´s death is of course more tragic because she wasn´t so headwrenchingly complicated. Sure, Bond was in love with Vesper, but in the end he should be glad he got rid of that ´complicated woman´.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited March 2011 Posts: 13,978
    Neither of them. After i've fnished watching their respective films, they don't linger in my mind for a second more.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    @Major Really, Major? :) When I first saw OHMSS, I hadn't read the book yet and so I didn't see it coming. Tracy's death shocked me and stayed with me for many days. As for Vesper, by '05 I had read the novels multiple times and so I knew what was coming. That took a way the element of surprise. My mother, however, didn't know what to expect. She was definitely taken by the scene.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Honestly, neither of them ever have.
  • saunderssaunders Living in a world of avarice and deceit
    Posts: 987
    For me it has to be Vesper, partly this is because I find Eva Green a far more beautiful and captivating actress who manages to portray the double crossing Vesper as a warm, likeable, sensitive and fully realised character, while Diana Rigg for me is less effective and unable to look or act with the necessary emotional depth needed for the role. Also I do feel that Vespers importance in the Bond universe is drastically underrated in comparison with Tracy, yes Bond married the latter but in the original Fleming books Vesper was Bond's first true love and it was her death that helped mould him into the ruthless and cold hero. Fleming even had his character return each year to reminisce at the setting of their brief and doomed romance and it was during one such visit that he met Tracy (which could be read as symbolising that both women are equally romantically important to James Bond).
  • timmertimmer
    Posts: 4,622
    I was more affected by Vesper as her death was so tragic. She was a tragic character. She had given up. She felt she had no reason to live - that her sins were beyond redemption. If only Bond had got to her in time, she might have been brought around and rejuvenated. Such a waste. Such tragedy.
    Tracy on the other hand was saved by Bond. She was re-born in a sense.
    She was gunned down in a senseless murder, but she at least died at peace with herself.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited March 2011 Posts: 422
    Tracy, because an unhappy ending to a Bond movie was a completely unexpected event at the time
    whereas, with Vesper, I was too confused about what was going on
    and distracted by my indignation over the stupid sinking building
    to be emotionaly effected by her death
  • GeorgeLazenbyGeorgeLazenby
    Posts: 295
    Tracey, by far. I feel moved every time I see it. Vesper's death is only noteworthy in so much as it didn't move me at all. The whole relationship was poorly executed and didn't work for me at all. It didn't help that it was interrupted by yet another stupid and extraneous action sequence.
  • jaguar007jaguar007
    Posts: 638
    As I knew both would die before I saw either movie, I would still have to say Tracy because it was so sudden and quick. There was a bit more of a build up to Vesper's death.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Quoting GeorgeLazenby: Vesper's death is only noteworthy in so much as it didn't move me at all. The
    whole relationship was poorly executed and didn't work for me at all. It didn't
    help that it was interrupted by yet another stupid and extraneous action
    sequence.

    You, @GeorgeLazenby are right on the money with this. All of the faults with Casino Royale centre around Vesper due to an awful third act and I'm shocked not work person was able to get it to work on film, instead we get the final unused Fleming novel mucked up.
  • ChuckChuck
    Posts: 212
    In terms of the cinematic depictions of these events, Tracey's was more moving. Had they filmed something similar to Vesper's death in the actual novel, then I would have found hers more moving. I think that they thought that Vesper's death in the film would be shocking in that the main Bond girl rarely, if ever, dies in the film, but they really should have gone with Bond finding her without the action sequence going on all around the two of them. As great a film as CR is, and as much as I like the concept of the Venice action sequence, EON really dropped the ball regarding Vesper's death scene.
  • Lazenby.Lazenby.
    Posts: 50
    Quoting GeorgeLazenby:
    Tracy, by far. I feel moved every time I see it. Vesper's
    death is only noteworthy in so much as it didn't move me at all. The whole
    relationship was poorly executed and didn't work for me at all. It didn't help
    that it was interrupted by yet another stupid and extraneous action sequence.
    ________________________________________________________________


    ^ This, 100%.
  • dragonskydragonsky
    Posts: 2,491
    vesper have more interesting and complicated death-she wanted to die Bond didnt want her to die.
    but definitely tracy
  • Mr_SterlingMr_Sterling
    edited March 2011 Posts: 99
    Vesper. I feel that relationship was much more convincing and better played out by the actors in question. I also have my own personal reason.
  • Handsome_FoxHandsome_Fox
    Posts: 2
    He really loved Vesper. Her "suicide" in the book & movie had big impact on Bond. He had fun with women after Vesper but never truly loved again till Tracy. He was a damaged man after Vesper and Tracy fixed him. Then once he learns to truly love again it quickly taken away. Vesper's death help shape the character of Bond and Tracy's just reminded him that when ever he's in love for real he's always gonna love it.

    Out of the Two going by the movies only. I'm gonna say Tracy's death. George's Bond wasn't larger than life. He was the first human bond & it was our first taste of seeing him being human. Craig did some better acting pretending to be all emotional over Vesper.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Tracy easily. Tracy finally found the peace she was looking for in marrying Bond, only to have it suddenly taken away from her without getting a chance to enjoy it.

    Vesper betrayed Bond (unwillingly perhaps). Still Vesper made her own choice in her fate.
  • YtterbiumYtterbium
    Posts: 269
    The relationship Bond-Bond girl that affects me the most is the one with Vesper, since they spend so much time to get toward each other.
    But the swimming pool moment just spoil the effect of Vesper death, and we go too quickly to meet Mister White.

    On the other way, no matter how many time I watched it, but Tracy's death makes me sad every time, and I'm always upset by Bond, ready to go after Blofeld, and who just realizes the death of Tracy.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Quoting Ytterbium: The relationship Bond-Bond girl that affects me the most is the one with Vesper, since they spend so much time to get toward each other.
    I believe Bond and Tracy spent more time getting close to one another. Real close I mean, unless the one night stand counts. Then my point is invalid. :)
    Quoting Ytterbium: But the swimming pool moment just spoil the effect of Vesper death, and we go too quickly to meet Mister White.
    I disagree. The film is being stretched at this point. Bond holds her in his arms, we have the talk with M and then the teaser with White. I don't think the pacing is wrong. Any more time grieving over Vesper at the scene of her death would have been pushing our patience I think.

  • JET007JET007
    Posts: 632
    that's really tough for me. The look on Vesper's face as she drowns is horrific and it's a terrible way to go and not as instantaneous as a bullet to the head. However, the tragedy of being gunned down on your honeymoon and showing Bond surrendering to the moment is very effective as well. Split decision.
  • Vodka_MartiniVodka_Martini
    Posts: 27
    With out a shadow of a doubt Tracy. Her death was just so real. They really did have all the time in the world :-((
  • AgentJamesBond007AgentJamesBond007 Vesper’s grave
    Posts: 2,632
    Without a doubt, Tracy. Bond was willing to do anything for her and she is Mrs. Bond, and Bond seems way more effected by her death than Vesper.
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