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Race is a huge component, or even determinant of personality and character. What's more, race, be it black, white, Asian, etc. carries with it a huge amount of cultural freight. We have expectations of racial behavior that are deeply informed by personal experience, knowledge, and to a lesser degree, what we encounter in showbiz. A black Bond would be a fundamentally different Bond. The tonal change would be so tremendous that it would vitiate and destroy the character.
Not skin color...race. The differences are infinitely more profound then being skin deep. As to Yank Bond, broad Bond or homo Bond, nope, don't want to go there either. The character is a straight, white, upper-crust Brit and that's all there is to it. If somebody wants to pursue what they laughably call "social justice," then let them create a spy series where the spy is a black tranny from Greenwich Village, New York. But do not do this on Fleming and Bond's dime.
And here's a question: Why are so many people so insistent that Bond be black? What is the pensee arriere?
Elba is an amazing actor and after seeing him in No Good Deed, I'd prefer him as a villain or some antagonist than Bond himself. All of this though coming from someone who still wishes someday we may see in the far off future a series set in the 50s, give Bond his slim build, three-inch long thin vertical scar on his right cheek, blue-grey eyes with a "cruel" looking mouth, severe attachment to alcohol and his Morland's special blend.
Think I'll go re-read the Fleming novels and imagine a better, fantasy world before Fleming's ideas were tossed out in exchange for comedic effect.
Well, not from me. I hold judgment until they cast an actor and star in their first Bond film. Call me old-fashioned and pre the Internet Age if you wish. The same would go for a black actor cast as Bond. I would analyse his acting skill and screen presence and not just his skin colour.
I personally think the conversation is somewhat moot though, because Idris is too old for the role. Having said that, I dont' think he was ever the best actor for the role, compared to the pool of other potential candidates out there. I think it would actually be very difficult to argue for a black actor to take the role, purely because the pool of available possible black actors is so small compared to more conventional white choices. So any selection of a potential black actor down the road would have to mean that this particular actor was absolutely exceptional, and better than all the possible other candidates from a much bigger sample set. This is just statistically unlikely, and so is likely to cause a riot, because people will likely say EON was pandering.
Also, the argument about Cambridge etc. is a valid one, but even in Cambridge, there are far more white students than there are black ones. So it would be somewhat exceptional for Bond to just happen to be a black Cambridge graduate, just on a probability basis. Having said that, that in itself should not exclude him from being black.
When hearing all the arguments for and against, I also thought about Bond's sexist attitudes, something I really like about the character and which has to some extent been watered down of late, but seems to be making a comeback. I don't think it would look as appropriate if a black or minority actor was also sexist in the movie. It could raise a lot of hoopla. That of course doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Just that it's unlikely. This is another argument against a minority actor, because it could necessitate a watering down of one aspect of Bond's essence in the interpretation, an element I personally like very much. Namely his sexism.
Ha! Just listen to yourself. My, my, what a tolerant and decent chap you are. Send an application to the Vatican. Perhaps you can get a beatification out of it.
And if you think American cinema is filled with nothing other than white heroes and black villains, you are willfully blind. Blacks are transfigured to laughable degrees--particularly when compared with reality--and white men are villains in huge numbers. Hell, slavery and anti-white racism porn is arguably the dominant theme in Hollywood and has been since the 90s. Wake up. If you care to, that is.
Exactly. This is the classic straw man, and it is used to conceal an agenda. These people don't want the best actor, they want a black Bond to make them feel good about themselves.
@Darthdimi I basically agree as ive said several times. Someone would have to stand head and shoulders above the competition to change Bond's appearance greatly. Not unlike Craig did. And I think Elba if he were ten years younger could do so as well. Id at least like to see a screen test. But hes not so this is just an academic debate.
Well actually I was just saying that I am dead sure that Fleming would be against the idea of a black Bond. Imagine a white Shaft - should that happen too just for the sake of 21st Century equality? No! Well, a black Bond is just as preposterous notion to me!
No, he's spun himself into outer space at the thought of this thread I fear! ;)
Haha him and Hugo Drax both. :))
Sadly I doubt Old Ian would recognise that version of Drax, even though he certainly is a Lonsdale figure! :D
Please, do tell. I believe that race plays next to no role in determining someone's personality and character. Now, societal expections and biases about race can definitely be an influence.
I think post is more revealing than you intended. If you think movies about slavery in the US are 'anti-white' than your perspective is seriously warped. Also, there has been actual research done on this very topic. We can start posting some of it here if that would change your mind (I know it won't).
That's ****. You should try reading the posts again. Everyone willing to accept a black Bond has said they think it should only be done if he's obviously the best choice. No one here is arguing for an "affirmative action Bond".
Mod edit: watch the language please.
Should an actor be eliminated from consideration for the part of James Bond just because he is a minority?
The answer then, is unquestionably, no.
Quite.
Yes exactly.
Well apart from the fact Bond never went to Oxbridge so the whole point is irrelevant....
However you do raise one interesting point. Statistically per head of population Chinese and Indian students achieve far higher results than black (and incidentally white) students so It would be far less exceptional and more credible for Bond to be Chinese or Indian than it would black. But for some reason this debate is only over discussed in terms of there being a black Bond. Can someone in the pro camp explain to me why there is a fervent desperation for a black Bond but not a Chinese one? Your only argument seems to be 'what if there's a talented black actor about when they start looking for a new Bond?', as if denying someone the chance to play Bond is as outrageous as saying 'black people can't be bus drivers or solicitors'.
I'm 39, balding and with a bit of gut - guess what? I'm never going to be chosen to play Bond. Toby Jones is a fine actor but he will never be in the frame to play Bond either because he's a tubby little bloke with a face like a gargoyle.
Some people in this world are not suitable to portray James Bond. Tough shit, life's a bastard. Get over it.
Nail. Hit. On. Head.
There was a god awful piece in the Standard this week telling us why this was all such a fantastic idea and of course when you looked at the mugshot of the journalist who penned it, it was some white, middle class Islingtonista.
Maybe in an "alternative" NSNA style universe it might be appropriate but I feel it would just rattle too many cages if EON went with a black actor to play the role. Look what happened with Craig in 2006 for gods sake.
There are certainly people with such an agenda, I haven't seen any on here, though. I don't see anyone actively canvassing for a black Bond, merely a bunch of people who've raised the point that it's something that can be considered and not dismissed out of hand immediately.
This conversation always goes down one road. 1. Poster makes flippant comment about race. 2. Second Poster gives reasonable evidence for why said comment could be more considered. 3. Poster gets annoyed at the 'PC brigade' and insists they have a minority friend thereby invalidating anything Poster 2 has to say. 4. Poster is backed up by like-minded individuals who hide behind phrases such as 'purist'. 5. Thread descends into Perilagu_Khan's High Horse Gymkhana.
For me, Bond needs to be: British and played by a good actor. That's about it, truly. Being British is very key to Bond. I have read the novels, I grew up with white Bonds, but I do not feel that Bond needs to be white. He could be any ethnicity as long as truly British and male. And probably the only other definite for me would be that he remains heterosexual. This is how my core Bond parameters are. Not saying we should all think the same way.
I think for me Idris Elba would have been a great Bond, but I do feel he is simply now too old for the role (unless EON wants to specifically tackle an older, aging Bond for only two films).
EDIT UPDATE: I just looked up ages: Liam Neeson is 60, Pierce will be 62 in May (just as a comparison, I am not advocating bringing him back as Bond, but he is kicking ass as November Man these days), and Idris is now 42. He could do two films. So I am rethinking this may be more possible. If EON wants to start the next group of films with an older Bond, one closer to 50. He has the acting chops, charisma, is British, and I would enjoy him as Bond.
And yes, this discussion always tanks sooner or later, going downhill.
Babs and Dan already broke that wall in SF or at least that he is bisexual.
Others will differ.