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Don´t apologize to me, I admit I can act a little brittle sometimes. But thank you anyway. (:
Now, eroticism is a different subject.
And I agree about how the scene with Volpe and Bond is erotic, while the one with Jinx really doesn't do anything at all.
But the Connery films were a lot more risqué anyway.
Take for instance those scenes when Tatiana creeps into bed and still has the guts to actually say something to Bond, even though she was quite literally dressed like a prostitute with that black ribbon around her neck.
I have to agree that Luciana Paluzzi's Fiona Volpe takes it hands down after seeing those photos posted earlier. She seems to be very relaxed with Connery both in that bed and bathroom (lucky sod).
There's something about her eyes that really conveys both mischief and confidence. Eva Green has it too. So does Lea Seydoux incidentally, which bodes well for SP.
I agree, the 60's films ooze sex appeal but I feel they do it with class and I love a lot of the female characters from that period.
How do people feel about Tracey and Vesper in this thread?
They are my favourite Bond Women/Girls and I think the majority of fans like their characters but I don't think I've seen Tracy mentioned and Vesper Only mentioned a couple of times.
I agree. The Bond girls of the 60's have been by far the strongest female characters of any era thus far. Sure, every other decade has one or two great women, but the 60's were full of superb ladies.
I agree, but I think the Bond girls of the current Craig era are close to matching it. Vesper is the prime example, but also Solange, Camille and Eve came across as pretty strong women. (Severine maybe not so much, but that was only natural considering her character). Lea and Monica look very promising as well, needless to say.
I'm sure Sean Connery was very stiff working with Palluzi; -)
I love them as characters. Not certain how I'd feel about them as girlfriends. Good in bed certainly. But they both have many issues.
Camille felt pretty one-note in QOS. Just because she was out for revenge and could use a weapon doesn't necessarily make her a strong character in my book. I never felt layers with her, and her quest for revenge, like I felt with Craig/Bond. She's pretty two-dimensional.
Severine, even in her brief screentime, gave me the impression of many layers and complexities. I thought Marlohe did a great job, and when I watched her character it felt like I was watching a human being and not necessarily a "character in a movie." That, for me, is the benchmark of a strong character. Severine's situation in life does not dictate her strength as a character. A good example: "Dr." Christmas Jones is an abysmal character, and her "situation" in life would suggest that she's a strong female, when in reality Severine is a vastly superior character both on page and on the screen.
I'd consider myself a feminist, but I don't necessarily want to see every woman up there kicking ass and blowing up helicopters, etc. I just want complex and well written characters. Despite some of the casual sexism of the films of the 60's I stand by my statement that the era contained easily the best female characters of the series. Even minor roles displayed complexity. Take Tilly Masterson. Sure, her character's place in the plot and dimensions are similar to Camille's. The difference? Tilly is a minor character, with 10 minutes of screen-time max. Camille is the leading lady of the film, a role that demands more complexities whereas minor roles only have time to develop one or two primary facets. The genius of Severine is that her screen time would suggest her status as minor, but her character as a whole feels like anything but.
I agree. It all depends on how you define the word "strong" in this instance, of course. If we are talking strong "film character", multilayered with a solid backstory, Severine certainly delivers. However I don't think Camille was as one note as you make her out to be. And certainly not in comparison to some of the Bond Girls from the Connery era, like Honey, Domino, Aki or Kissy. (That is not to say I don't like these Bond Girls)
I need to see the movie again, but her character just seems so focused on revenge (as is understandable) that I don't get any real sense of her as a character outside of that revenge. Seems a bit too archetypal (brooding, pouting, angry, vengeful).
I agree with you on this. A lot of it is down to Marlohe's excellent work but a lot of it also is down to Mendes, who brought wonderful depth to all the characters in SF. That is one of the crowning achievements of that movie.
I also agree regarding Camille. I'm not sure if it was Kurylenko (I think to some extent it was because I was unable to understand her in some of the scenes) or the problems with the script due to the writer's strike, but she did seem somewhat one-dimensional to me as well. Only at the end when she wanted Bond to kill her off was there some element of depth. I found Bouquet's similarly revenge driven Melina in FYEO to be a more complex character than Camille. Having said that, Camille did sort of fit in with the rest of QoS, which while very fast paced and action packed, did not really dwell on depth of characterization. I felt things were hinted at about characters in the movie, but the watcher must sort of 'fill in the blanks' themself. That might have been the intention after all - who knows.
I agree on Tilly Masterson as well.
For me, there must be a hint or air of vulnerability, of doubt - that would suggest humanity and a rounded, complex character. This was something neither "Dr" Jones or the one-dimensional Jinx demonstrated for example. DC does this very well, for example, which helps his Bond characterization.
Sylvia – You cant argue with this. She doesn’t hang around; to fetch up in a guy’s bedroom who she met an hour ago wearing that? Plus you could go for a round of golf with her afterwards. 8/10
Honey - pretty naive, possibly enthusiastic, but I doubt she'd know what she's doing. 6/10
Tatiana - might have had lessons in the seductive arts from the state and that flick of the tongue in the bedroom scene tells you all you need to know. And was the choker and suspenders her own idea or ordered by Klebb? Nonetheless when she’s on the train she still seems to be well up for it and she’s not under orders at this point. 8.5/10
Jill – The classic ‘good time girl’ and its pretty clear she would give you a good time. If she can leave Bond ‘entirely satisfied’ who am I to complain? 7/10
Pussy – I’m sorry but shes just never done anything for me and with the whole lifetime of lesbianism behind her would she really be any good? 2/10 (In the interests of inclusivity and given we now have a ‘Which Bond would be best in bed?’ splinter thread, any lesbian members should certainly please feel free to throw ‘Which lesbian character would be best in bed?’ out there. Choices a bit thin on the ground though basically Rosa Klebb, Pussy and Tilly. And of course the same goes for gay members also: Mr Wint, Mr Kidd or Silva - personally I would go Silva all day long; although please don’t take that as a declaration that the Wizard is coming out, I’m merely entering into the spirit of things).
Pat – Cut from the same cloth as Jill except shes up for it in a sauna and with a mink glove so gets an extra point. 8/10
Domino – I know people rave about her on here but I never really get it. Ok shes got the looks but overall she just seems less than the sum of her parts. There doesn’t seem to be a lot going on behind the eyes for me and I cant imagine the experience would be much better than one of those inflatable sex dolls. 5/10
Fiona – Now we’re talking. What can I say that hasn’t been said? Got it all; a tigress, sexy foreign accent and top heavy to the point of being in danger of capsizing. Although I do wonder is she a bit too daunting? I’m not Ron Jeremy for Christ’s sake. 9.5/10 (Got to dock her half a point for the probability she would demand it 10 times a night which would just be too much of a good thing)
Aki – I don’t find her very attractive at all but if she was schooled at Tiger’s bathing harem then theres every chance she could be very sexiful. 4/10
Kissy – Rather naïve and untouched so experience counts against her but the Japanese maxim of ‘men come first’ (please get your minds out of the gutter – I’m just quoting Tiger) should stand her in good stead when it comes to wanting to please. 6/10
Tracy – Has shagged her way round the casinos and yachts of St Tropez, Rimini and Cannes. If she can hook herself Italian playboys in Maseratis she’ll do for me. 9/10
Ruby – Well northern birds are pretty filthy so why not? A bottle of WKD and she’ll be an animal. 6/10
Nancy – The sort of woman who breaks into a bloke’s room to seduce him? You don’t do that unless you are confident in your own abilities. I bet shes had Grunther, that scientist bloke who lobs the test tube at Laz and maybe even had a crack at Ernst himself. Insatiable. 8/10
Tiffany – Blatantly a girl who is adept at using her sexuality to get her what she wants. She’s got the attitude that says she can back up her words with actions (unlike the Tiffany of the novel who was a more interesting and damaged character). 8/10
Plenty – Ditto. Makes a living out of shagging casino punters so you would imagine she would know what she was doing. 7/10
Miss Caruso – Seems a bit clingy to me and looks like she prefers cuddling. 3/10
Rosie – Well shes a perverse woman according to the tarot card so one imagines she gave old Rog and good time. 7/10
Solitaire – Her eagerness to learn (‘Is there time before we leave for lesson number 3?’, ‘Anywhere we can find one of these’) would surely make up for any lack of experience? 7/10
Andrea - She keeps the world’s most dangerous assassin satisfied so she must be pretty adept. 7/10
Goodnight – Well Bond comes back for seconds after a previous liaison so that’s a recommendation in itself but she’s just so damn gormless – its not all about looks you know. 5/10
Anya – Well the Russian accent is gets you halfway there so as long as she’s reasonable when it comes down to business I reckon it’s job done. 7/10
Corrine – She puts up a pretty feeble job of resisting so its clear she loves it and given that she’s French to boot I would say it’s a slam dunk. 7/10
Manuela – The way she dresses for what the first time she meets a colleague tells you all you need to know. Pure filth. 8/10
Holly – Seems to have the attitude that she would be doing you a favour. And a bit of a rampant feminist. I don’t think she would be up to much quite frankly. 3/10
Bibi – Yeah shes well up for it but you get the sense that when it came down to it she wouldn’t have a clue. Plus she’s exceptionally annoying. 2/10
Lisl – See Tracy above just substituting the Greek Islands for the Riviera and Greek smugglers for Italian playboys. 8/10
Melina – Any girl who shoots a man with a crossbow out of revenge has to be pretty wild in bed too I reckon. 8/10
Magda – A tricky one, never really get the sense she particularly enjoys shagging Bond and I reckon theres a fair chance she could be a lesbian with eyes only for Octopussy. 2/10
Octopussy – Knocking on a bit so plenty of experience but wear and tear might have taken its toll. Still worth a go though I suppose. 5/10
May Day – Okay its pretty grotesque to have her looming over you and even a seasoned swordsman like Rog seems terrified but would she really be so bad? I’m sure theres a niche out there for birds who are built like a bloke and might slap you around but I’m out myself. 1/10
Stacey – She doesn’t even know the difference between the soap and Roger’s todger!!! Plus that constant shrieking would wind you up – or maybe turn you on depending on your proclivities. 5/10
Rosika Miklos – It would be a braver bloke than me but that technician looks pretty happy – or concussed; its difficult to say. 1/10
Kara - A bit whiny and a bit dozy but nonetheless classic East European perfection. 8/10
Lupe – Got a right bob on herself. Reckons she’s brilliant but I imagine she would turn out to be pretty average. And annoyingly thick as well. 4/10
Pam – Much more like it. By far the queen of the LTK birds with legs to die for. And she’s been around the block a few times and knows the score. A very solid 7/10
Xenia – A proper thrill ride as long as you survived (but then that’s probably half the attraction) and she loves to go on top. Plus a classic femme fatale Russian accent? Does it get any better than that? 9.5/10
Natalya – Compared to Xenia she might be a bit tame but I would still be very happy with this. In a perfect world Natalya you marry, Xenia you see on the side (actually in a truly perfect world you have them both together!!). 7.5/10
Paris – High maintenance and not as good as she thinks she is, although has bagged herself a millionaire so must be doing something right otherwise he’d trade her in for a younger model. 5/10
Wai Lin – She’d be flexible enough I suppose but she’s rather dull and not that fit. The Rory Kinnear of shags – functional and uninspired. 3/10
Jinx – Has got the looks and she seems pretty enthusiastic but I doubt I could listen to her speak without punching her in the face (although some people find this a turn on). 5/10
Miranda – You cant go wrong here. Not only is she a posh bird (they love it) but she’s a bad girl to boot (always extra sex appeal when they are bad). And she’s played by the Pikelet!! 8/10
Solange – What an absolute tart. Pulls another bloke with her old man practically in the same room and doesn’t hang about getting into his car. I bet she was properly gutted when Dan did a runner on her. Plus she’s spectacularly well stacked. Doesn’t seem the brightest though. 8/10
Vesper – Pretty much perfection. A girl you can have an intelligent conversation with but who also has a perfect figure and says lines like ‘you can have me anywhere’. Although she does end up topping herself so perhaps a little bit unstable. 9.5/10
Camille – Has used sex to get close to Medrano so you have to wonder if she puts her heart and soul in it or just goes through the motions. Still half Russian half Bolivian is a potent cocktail that would surely be dynamite if she was in the mood. 8/10
Fields – Well any girl that turns up wearing nothing under her coat has to be a winner (where does that rumour come from by the way because theres nothing to really say it in the script) and she doesn’t take more than 5 minutes to jump into bed with Bond although is that because she loves it or because Bond is irresistible? 7/10
Severine – A tricky one. Clearly oozes sex but has she learned she can use it just to get men to do what she wants? I get the impression with Fiona and Xenia that they exploit this but they also love what they are doing at the same time. Not so sure about Severine. Would still be pretty good I reckon though. 7.5/10
Get a sense of humour, It's a hilarious thread. Some people can be such dullards.
There are so many to choose from. Murino/Solange is emminently shaggable, but something tells me she would be stiff in the sack. I've always had a soft spot for Solitaire/Seymour, but ultimately this accolade goes to Pussy/Honor Blackman; she would undoubtedley be wild in the sack. Not the prettiest, but she's got the most charisma.
I thoroughly agree with this great post, although I have to say I felt a good deal of empathy for Camille. She was a very remote character though. Not interested in sex, life, sensuality or anything other than revenge. She was a very traumatised Woman, I believed in her strength.
Not to go off-topic, but regardless of whether it was intentional or not, it worked so well with QoS. I believe the writers strike was the best thing to happen to QoS. What we got was a stripped back everything, and imo not only the most believable action but the most believable dialogue in the Craig era. Of course it lacked the flair of Skyfall in that regard, but it worked for this viewer. So the same for the characters - all of them. Bond, Mathis, Leiter, Greene and of course Camille. Olga is not the best actress but the Bond series has never been blessed with top actresses.
I see what you did there.
>:P :))
Whatever floats your boat mate. If you're happy in bed with the sexual equivalent of a mug of Horlicks good for you but ask myself or most of the others on here to take the Pepsi challenge between Wai Lin and Fiona and there's only one person being bitch slapped despite her chop socky talent.
To quote a certain Mr Carver 'Pathetic'.
I'll never look at Grunther/that old scientist the same way again! :))
Sterling summary @TheWizardofIce where I agree on most accounts. Fiona for the win. How about your thoughts on Elektra and Christmas Jones (TWINE)? And Helga (YOLT), the poor man's Fiona but with the healthy chest.
As an aside it's shocking how many prudes there are in the world of Bond fandom, isn't it? :))
:))
Indeed.
And if she gets (or is bedded by) the man she wants, surely that is far more about female power than some woman headbutting men and showing how tough she can be by not being classically feminine...
We should embrace the differences between men and women instead of pandering to some PC idea that the world will be a better place once there is no longer any difference between genders.
Yes, another very good choice. It's great to see you back on our community, @Perdogg!