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DAF, AVTAK, LTK, DAD and SP - Why the last of each era is viewed upon with mixed feelings.
BondJasonBond006
on fb and ajb
Each Bond actor's last movie seems to be the one most disliked or at least getting the most mixed reactions.
Assuming Craig will not return.
Assuming Craig will not return.
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Comments
DAF
DAF just isn't that good a film. We start off with a pencil thin connection between OHMSS and DAF, which is that in DAF's PTS, Bond is going after Blofeld because of Tracy's death. This connection, however, isn't mentioned, and as soon as Blofeld's taken care of, Bond has absolutely no problem chasing Tiffany. For a man who just lost the love of his life, he gets over her pretty quick and goes right after another woman.
Onto Tiffany, she's not played well at all. The actress just doesn't do very good. She's eye candy in that bikini near the end of the movie, but she's dumb as a bag of hammers.
Felix Leiter's pre-Craig personality has been all over the place anyway, but in the films prior to and following this one, he didn't seem as angry. Hilariously, prior to Jeffery Wright's Leiter, this one is actually my favorite, but he's completely out of continuity with the other Felix's of the series.
Now Blofeld himself. Getting Charles Grey to play him after being Henderson in another film (which had Blofeld as a villain, I might add) is not only ridiculous, Grey just doesn't play him all that well, and that's before the cross-dressing scene. Blofeld's doubles weren't a good idea, either. That they could be ripped from the film and nothing would change tells you they really shouldn't have been in it in the first place. Maybe the one that dies in the PTS, simply because that lulls Bond into the false sense of believing Blofeld's dead, but not the one in Willard Whyte's office. That one was useless.
Other than that, most of the film is just a series of "we'd like to see this" moments strung together with a basic plot thrown in for sh*ts and giggles. That scientist should have realized he was making a weapon the second it the idea was presented to him. He was a frikkin' moron.
All in all, DAF simply existed as an excuse to get Connery back, not as a legitimate piece of entertainment.
MR
Moonraker is, without a doubt, the weakest of the Moore films. Did you see TSWLM? You've seen MR. Their plots work 100% exactly the same. Billionaire steals vessels (submarines/space shuttles). Billionaire creates multi-billion dollar base of operations (Stromberg's lab, Drax's space station). Billionaire truly does not hide that he's a bad guy. Bond sent in to investigate disappearances. Billionaire fails to kill Bond in a very unnecessarily obvious way. Jaws works for Billionaire. Shootout in Billionaires base. Base is destroyed. Interestingly, the plot of YOLT works in exactly the same way as well.
The unfortunate thing about MR is that all of the performances are solid. They're not bad in any way, the film itself is just weak. Hugo Drax is one of my favorite villains, and he's played expertly, he's just exactly the same as Karl Stromberg. Swap "We must live underwater" for "space nazi" and that's the only difference.
AVTAK
This one does stem mostly from the fact that Moore was too old. Well, that's not true. Mayday wasn't a particularly impressive henchwoman to me. Christopher Walken's having a ball playing Max Zorin, but the character isn't really all that good. It's not a horrible plot, but the movie could have been better. As a send-off to Moore's Bond, AVTAK was less of a bang and more of a whimper.
DAD
Yet again, a whimper more than a bang, whether you get the thrust of it or not. Poor performances from Rosamund Pike, Halle Berry, Samantha Bond and even Judi Dench. This was not her best performance as M. Brosnan was decent, Toby Stephens was yet again living it up as Gustav Graves, and from the PTS until Halle Berry is introduced, the film is excellent, plus a few other moments here and there such as the fight at Blades.
Then the film becomes too much science fiction, and then the film becomes a DAF ripoff. They tried too hard, I feel, to give it a "relevant" plot, but it just didn't work. And it's actually pretty sad, too, because with just a few minor tweaks and the complete removal of the nonsensical "gene therapy" element (gene therapy doesn't even begin to work like magical plastic surgery), the film could have been a good way to cap of 40 years and 20 films of history. The Q-lab is a loving look back at gadgets that made us all stare wide-eyed at the screen, and most of the references dotted around the film work as homages rather than distractions (save Halle Berry).
But the para-sailing scene just needs to piss off and die, because it's worthless. Absolutely worthless.
QOS
Back in late 2008/early 2009, I didn't quite understand any of the hate I was seeing for QOS, and that was back before I came here, anyway. All this "too fast editing" I kept hearing about didn't seem apparent at all to me. I just saw a good film that worried more about keeping the thread of Bond's humanity than it did about focusing on the villain's plot.
Looking back on it now, I see most of the complaints. While I still love the fact that Bond's humanity is the focus, the film was clearly made to compete with other films rather than showing us anything in its own right. Felix's inclusion was a mere after-thought and an excuse to bring more characters people liked in CR back. If Vesper hadn't been dead, you can damn well bet she'd be back. Hell, I'm surprised there weren't flashbacks. Mathis is, also, more of an after-thought. I liked his send off (getting dumped in a garbage can and Bond loots his wallet, it's just funny), but I'd have rather seen that character stick around, and continue being something akin to Bond's sidekick. ("Gone such a short time, people have already forgotten you." "You're just saying that to hurt me.")
As I said, these were merely my views on each film. Some of them are in fact what you didn't want to hear, I'm sure, but I can't exactly help it if that's how I feel. Hopefully, this helped.
Diamonds Are Forever, Moonraker and Quantum Of Solace get criticized because the movies that preceded them, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, The Spy Who Loved Me and Casino Royale were much better movies. Diamonds Are Forever and Moonraker were both very cheesy and both films had a poor finale. Quantum Of Solace had potential but it was too short and Dominic Green was one of the worst villains in the series so far. I know you may like A View To A Kill better than Live and Let Die and that's fine with me but the main reason why most Bond fans prefer Live and Let Die is because Roger Moore was younger, had more energy, credibility and was much better in the fight scenes than he was in his other films. Die Another Day in addition to having a poor cast, put too much emphasis on action and not enough emphasis on story and character development.
So that pretty much sums it up for me. It's not unheard of for someone to like a few of the movies you mentioned above more than some of the other more highly regarded movies in the series since everyone has different tastes. However if you think about all of the points I just mentioned, I'm sure you will have a greater understanding of why those films are at the bottom of a lot of peoples lists.
I had to read your comments twice, they are that good!
I'm tempted to print it out, really, and put it to my collection of official reviews of Bond movies. ^:)^
But enough schmoozing :)
Many thanks, that's exactly what I wanted, it broadens my mind.
Indeed, it helps!
Tastes are different and luckily so. DAF is my No 23, but DAD for instance is my No 10 and MR my No 11 Bond movie.
In all Bond films there's something so great that is worth the ticket... or the dvd!
Quick examples:
DAF: Fight with Peter Franks;
MR: Great lines: "A woman!"; "tedious inevitability of an unloved season"; "there's never a 70-year-old around when you need one"...
AVTAK: Eiffel Tower scene; John Barry;
DAD: Blades scene; Cuban scenes;
QOS: Opera scene; Bond finding Fields and M and his escape...
Connery looks like shit in diamonds are forever
Moonraker is science fiction and it was too much for a series that was already on the edges of credibility
A view to a kill had a leading man and leading lady with no credibility.
Die another day was already a crappy movie when it was called diamonds are forever
Quantum needed a better director, an actual editor, and more time developing the script
spot on!
Exactly my favourite scenes in those movies too!!
And MR has the funniest quips ever! I so love it when Bond is released from the accelerator, some great acting there from Moore!
Diamonds Are forever
The film is basically ridiculous. As discussed earlier Tiffany Case is just an annoying bimbo (and not that attractive Plenty was much cuter in my opinion). Leiter is a waste honestly and the ironic thing the novel is one of my favorites. The smuggling plot could of been really good if done correctly (see elements of For Your Eyes Only and License to Kill) here it isn't and the Pacifist being duped by Blofeld Really REALLY? Wint and Kidd being as sadistic and awesome as they were was why the film is not my least favorite
Moonraker
Oh boy where do I begin with this... Lets start with Holly Goodhead being a blatant rip off of Anya for no real reason, (back in Live and let die the CIA and MI6 are buddies now Holly is acting like an enemy agent?????). Then you see the film is as said before a note for note rip off of The Spy Who Loved Me. Moore and Lonsdale do what they can but the film is really piss poor. Then we get the double take pigeon...
A View to a Kill
Really it's Moore's age here if he had retired with Octopussy and Dalton was Bond in AVTAK and they also had different actress in the MayDay Stacey Sutton roles (Whoopie Goldberg and Sigourney Weaver maybe.. ok I am spit balling here but still). the film would of been stronger much stronger as the action is good the plot is ok (a little far fetched but Walken sells it) Like I said a younger/better cast and the film would be much better oh also the whole Dick Tracy line that should of been removed.
Die Another Day
Replace Halle Berry with a decent actress (Sarah Michelle Gellar right during her Buffy Fame would of been PERFECT Jessica Alba would of been great too) keep the ending the writer originally had in mind (the ending was supposed to be the exact ending of Moonraker the book) remove between 50 and 75% of the references and give it a better title like Beyond the Ice or Icarus or Risico and the film would of been amazing. in fact can Jcrendle or someone of that ilk make my dream a reality in poster form... thanks
Quantum of Solace
I genuinely will never get the hate for this film a better editor I guess? sorry it's not that bad to me I even rank it top 10.
Everybody on the forum has convinced themselves that DAD is just horrible. Its not just OTT and a product of its time. Well Berry did suck and umm yea the ice sequence was just too much... if it had been up to Hollywood fx standards then maybe would've worked.
Oh and LTK deserves on this list not QoS IMO.
Glad you never finished the countdown... :P
LTK is a polarizing film at times... for me everything was sub par.. Dalton deserved better.
However I agree with you that QOS shouldn't be on this list- it's a great Bond IMHO.
;)
lol, actually I was/am a big fan of "the Vice" :) I just want something more cinematic for Bond.
MV was pretty cinematic yo, but I see what yer sayin'.
Diamonds Are Forever
Simply too silly and uninteresting compared to the other Connery Bond films. It has its amusing merits like Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd, but by the time I reach the second half of the film, I'm ready for it to be over. The finale is very disappointing, and the film also doesn't address several things. For instance, why is Tracy not mentioned whatsoever? Also, a very anti-climatic "death" for Blofeld - especially considering it's not even clear if he dies. Charles Grey is also arguably one of the weaker Blofelds in the series. The film has its moments, but I consider DAF to be one of the weakest Bond entries for all the reasons above and probably more I'm missing.
Moonraker
Again, way too silly for its own good. Several scenes are just big face-palm moments, like the double-take pigeon or Jaws getting love at first sight. The entire climax in space felt very un-Bondish to me as well; the idea of Bond in space never really appealed to me. It was generally just too corny (Jaws becoming good is also questionable) and silly for my taste.
A View to a Kill
Personally my least favorite Bond film (though MR might possibly overtake it in my next marathon). To name a few issues: 1. Roger Moore is obviously way too old and it's very distracting. 2. May Day. 3. A cheap knockoff of TSWLM for the PTS. 4. Stacey Sutton (worst Bond girl ever IMO). To its credit AVTAK does feature a good title song and Christopher Walken as a solid Bond villain, but other than that, it doesn't do anything for me.
Die Another Day
Definitely one of the most disappointing Bond films overall. The first half starts with a lot of promise, especially the first half hour or so of the movie. But as we all know, it just goes downhill rapidly. I wasn't a fan of the main villain or story, and Jinx is one of the weakest Bond girls. Also, the CGI usage... Anyway, it's just not one of Bond's better outings.
Quantum of Solace
Unlike the general public, I actually like QoS (not that I hate any of the above titles). I think Craig did very well, Greene is an underrated villain (and Quantum is an underrated organization), and the supporting cast was great - Mathis, M, Felix, etc. However, I thought the way the movie dealt with Mathis was questionable, as was the short overall length; I would have like some more resolution (but who knows - maybe Spectre will give some?). Still, I like it a lot more than the other 4 titles listed, and while I understand it's flawed, the hate for it is usually overblown.
Funnily enough I like the dark tone and violence enough to rank it highly, would be even higher with a Barry score. I have to say the stuntwork in the Glen era is amazing, and there hasn't been anything better since (maybe the bungee jump in GE)
Except the story around drugs I see nothing at all. Absolutely nothing.
- Don Johnson is a spitting image of Timothy Dalton or the other way around?
- Philip Michael Thomas gets eaten by a shark.
- The Ferrari Daytona Spyder 365 GTS/4 Bond is driving in LTK?
did I forget something?
I'm not trying to sound condescending here,I know you're a new member to the forums, but you have to consider that people on here have discussed these things at length before time and time again. Why not open up some threads that discuss these things instead of making sweeping statements that there isn't any likeness whatsoever to MV in LTK?
It's similar to your assertion that fans only hate Die Another Day because of the CGI surfing scene- that's simply not the case.
Just some advice, again not trying to sound imposing or such. :)>-
The CGI surfing scene is the No 1 argument mentioned when it comes to DAD being hated. That's not an assertion but an observation.
It's one of the reasons for this thread, so it can be discussed more detailed, what it is about those regularly low ranked movies.