Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 11,425
    Yes the whole plane sequence is poor. Poorly conceived and executed.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    QOS is the big question mark for me.
    It stands at No 20 in my Bond ranking.

    I haven't seen it in 3 years. But in my Bondathon I have reached the Craig era now.

    I'm pretty sure it will climb up some places.
    It'll be interesting to see if I can "overlook" the editing mess and the non-Bond feel that QOS has.
    As I said before, QOS still is one of the three best movies of 2008!! Everything should be put into perspective sometimes.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2015 Posts: 15,718
    QOS remains, to this day, the most insane opening 30 minutes I've witness in a cinema. At the time I had little info on the film, I just saw the teaser and theatrical trailer, and nothing prepared me the PTS, which happened so fast my heart was pounding at 300 beats per minute. Hardly 7 minutes later was the Palio chase, which also knocked my pants off, and then the Slate fight, which is one of the most brutal fight sequences I've seen outside of The Raid, and then the boat chase which was so crazy, and ended in the most epic, 'WTF' and batsh*t insane kills ever (to this day I still have no idea how Bond dispatched that last enemy boat).

    Bourne inspired or not, from the PTS to the end of the boat chase, QOS is, in a nutshell, a lesson in how to do an no-nonsense action film. The only films I've seen since that managed to equal/surpass are the 2 Raid films (and I suspect, based on the trailer, 'John Wick', but I haven't seen it yet).
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @DaltonCraig007

    go and watch John Wick NOW!!

    John Wick is clearly the second best movie of 2014 after Guardians Of The Galaxy!!
  • Posts: 11,425
    John Wick is very entertaining nonsense.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited August 2015 Posts: 1,756
    I don't think Bond should be drinking Vodka, it seems too girly for him. He should be drinking Gin, or fine Whisky. Maybe beer time to time, Skyfall got it right.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Vodka girly? I've never heard that before.

    Me neither. I'm trying to imagine the reaction to such a statement had I said it while on the Trans-Siberian express knocking back shots with a bunch of tattooed Russians.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    RC7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Vodka girly? I've never heard that before.

    Me neither. I'm trying to imagine the reaction to such a statement had I said it while on the Trans-Siberian express knocking back shots with a bunch of tattooed Russians.

    Here lots of girls love vodka. It's tasteless, and only used to get drunk essentially. A gentleman like Bond, with a Scottish heritage, and a connoisseur of tastes, would rather have a scotch. Unless he was in a Slavic setting. Then it's fine.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Vodka girly? I've never heard that before.

    Me neither. I'm trying to imagine the reaction to such a statement had I said it while on the Trans-Siberian express knocking back shots with a bunch of tattooed Russians.

    Here lots of girls love vodka. It's tasteless, and only used to get drunk essentially. A gentleman like Bond, with a Scottish heritage, and a connoisseur of tastes, would rather have a scotch. Unless he was in a Slavic setting. Then it's fine.

    What makes you think Bond doesn't like to get steaming?
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    ...and then the boat chase which was so crazy, and ended in the most epic, 'WTF' and batsh*t insane kills ever (to this day I still have no idea how Bond dispatched that last enemy boat).

    That sums up what I dislike about the movie. Works for some films but not Bond.
  • edited August 2015 Posts: 11,425
    w2bond wrote: »
    ...and then the boat chase which was so crazy, and ended in the most epic, 'WTF' and batsh*t insane kills ever (to this day I still have no idea how Bond dispatched that last enemy boat).

    That sums up what I dislike about the movie. Works for some films but not Bond.

    I actually agree. Although I enjoy QoS overall, that doesnt mean there's not still a lot of things that could have been done much better. Although I quite like the story, there is often the sense the action is just there for padding and to paper over the cracks.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Personally I'm with Haphazard in that I think the boat chase is the worst out of some frankly not particularly great action scenes.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Personally I'm with Haphazard in that I think the boat chase is the worst out of some frankly not particularly great action scenes.

    I agree. The shot of the bike is decent, but the rest is action for the sake of it. Badly choreographed too.
  • edited August 2015 Posts: 11,189
    RC7 wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Personally I'm with Haphazard in that I think the boat chase is the worst out of some frankly not particularly great action scenes.

    I agree. The shot of the bike is decent, but the rest is action for the sake of it. Badly choreographed too.

    The bike is ok but even that makes me think of Crank.

    I liked the shot of Craig as he kills Mitchell.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Getafix wrote: »
    Yes. I remember being really pleased when I heard he'd been cast. I thought he was a great choice. I thoroughly enjoyed QOS when I saw it in the cinema. The first time is had that experience with a Bond movie since TLD and to a lesser extent TND.

    Agreed. Seeing TLD in the theater was very refreshing.
  • Posts: 15,124
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Vodka girly? I've never heard that before.

    Me neither. I'm trying to imagine the reaction to such a statement had I said it while on the Trans-Siberian express knocking back shots with a bunch of tattooed Russians.

    Here lots of girls love vodka. It's tasteless, and only used to get drunk essentially. A gentleman like Bond, with a Scottish heritage, and a connoisseur of tastes, would rather have a scotch. Unless he was in a Slavic setting. Then it's fine.

    What makes you think Bond doesn't like to get steaming?

    IMO, if Fleming had Bond drink vodka in his Martini, vodka is ok in my book for movie Bond. Beside, it is not the cheap booze it once was. And it's not like he only drinks vodka.
  • Posts: 232
    Bond actually had a formula for 'fixing' the badly-distilled vodka too ... in the books.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    trevanian wrote: »
    Bond actually had a formula for 'fixing' the badly-distilled vodka too ... in the books.

    Yes, in Moonraker. Think he sprinkled some black pepper in it to take the impurities to the bottom.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited August 2015 Posts: 1,756
    The Thames Boat chase isn't that great.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Both, the Thames boat chase and especially the tank chase are two of the most iconic sequences in any Bond movie!
    That's bad news of course for those who can't stand Brosnan.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Both, the Thames boat chase and especially the tank chase are two of the most iconic sequences in any Bond movie!
    That's bad news of course for those who can't stand Brosnan.

    I'll agree that the tank chase in GE is a great sequence. An only in a Bond film moment, that was brilliant in '95 and still impresses.
    The boat chase in TWINE is not as good I'm afraid. It goes on too long, and the longer it goes the sillier it gets. Some nice stunt-work, but camera's are clearly visible at times. Driving through the streets and through a busy restaurant is just lame I'm sorry to say.


  • edited August 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Both, the Thames boat chase and especially the tank chase are two of the most iconic sequences in any Bond movie!
    That's bad news of course for those who can't stand Brosnan.

    I don't find either sequence all that great. But I never felt cartoon chases were necessarily an integral part of Bond. I am not personally a massive fan of the truck chase in LTK or the Miami airport scene in CR, or the Istanbul chase in SF. They feel a bit hyperbolic. They can end up just seeming gimmicky and distracting.

    I find it unfortunate the idea that a chase has to be done with a new novelty mode of transport in each movie and to be more and more OTT. Look how that led to that awful ski chase in TWINE. The car chase at the start of QoS is much more effective IMO. Ditto the fleating Aston chase in CR. Chases on foot and by car are more enjoyable IMO because most of us can more fully associate with them. And they have an inherent plausibility.

    That's not to say Bond should never have OTT action, but it's not essential. It feels a bit like it's become something that has to be shoehorned into every movie to satisfy the popcorn munching hordes. The OTT moments should be used sparingly for maximum impact. And in the meantime it's much more enjoyable to have a good foot or car chase - not necessarily OTT but rather beautifully, brutally or cleverly choreographed.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Getafix wrote: »
    Both, the Thames boat chase and especially the tank chase are two of the most iconic sequences in any Bond movie!
    That's bad news of course for those who can't stand Brosnan.

    I don't find either sequence all that great. But I never felt cartoon chases were necessarily an integral part of Bond. I am not personally a massive fan of the truck chase in LTK or the Miami airport scene in CR, or the Istanbul chase in SF. They feel a bit hyperbolic. They can end up just seeming gimmicky and distracting.

    I find it unfortunate the idea that a chase has to be done with a new novelty mode of transport in each movie and to be more and more OTT. Look how that led to that awful ski chase in TWINE. The car chase at the start of QoS is much more effective IMO. Ditto the fleating Aston chase in CR. Chases on foot and by car are more enjoyable IMO because most of us can more fully associate with them. And they have an inherent plausibility.

    That's not to say Bond should never have OTT action, but it's not essential. It feels a bit like it's become something that has to be shoehorned into every movie to satisfy the popcorn munching hordes. The OTT moments should be used sparingly for maximum impact. And in the meantime it's much more enjoyable to have a good foot or car chase - not necessarily OTT but rather beautifully, brutally or cleverly choreographed.

    I agree actually.

    Of course I love those chase scenes like the two mentioned or the elaborate speedboat chase in LALD, or the one at the airport in CR, or the gondolier chase in Venice etc.

    But...want I really would like to see next, is a down to earth Bond movie à la FYEO or TLD or especially FRWL!
  • Posts: 11,425
    I agree, although FYEO and TLD both have very silly car chases in them. I like them both though!
  • Posts: 11,189
    The Miami chase is probably my favourite action sequence in CR.

  • Posts: 232
    Getafix wrote: »
    Both, the Thames boat chase and especially the tank chase are two of the most iconic sequences in any Bond movie!
    That's bad news of course for those who can't stand Brosnan.

    I don't find either sequence all that great. But I never felt cartoon chases were necessarily an integral part of Bond. I am not personally a massive fan of the truck chase in LTK or the Miami airport scene in CR, or the Istanbul chase in SF. They feel a bit hyperbolic. They can end up just seeming gimmicky and distracting.

    Mostly agree, though the LTK excesses are a little more excusable for me because each time something goes boom, it seems to amp the Bond/Sanchez situation, tweaking the bull that much more, so for all the spectacle, there is a character/emotional aspect beyond just crowdpleasing. (OHMSS did it well with just a single cut, when Savalas sees yet another complex going boom, but that wasn't as mano a mano as LTK, though perhaps it or a followup should have been.)

    Considering the way the Craig films seem to be more (too much) about hinting at Bond's internal makeup, if you did a TWINE boat chase with the vehicle scraping through walking streets, you'd probably need to have Bond or whoever he is pursuing run a pedestrian or two over, to deliver the now-necessary illusion providing 'Quotient of Reality' (sounds like a new Bond parody there), so he could ruminate and/or rage over same, or be chided by a superior for his recklessness.

    I think if you had the really over the top strongly lowbrow funny setpieces of the Moore era in Craig, you'd wind up with (Casino) Royale With Cheese. Bond used to manage extremes in moodswing nicely, like GF with the car chase followed by Tilly's death, but for me, the 70s and the current stuff are two kinds of extremes that just don't entertain OR engage.
  • I'm glad to see the Miami sequence is getting some love. It's my favorite action sequence from the Craig era however I've seen it written off many times seemly just because it's an action sequence in a movie based on Casino Royale and most want to get to the main event and view the sequence as tedious and filler. I see it as a loose contemporary adaption of the men with straw hats from the novel.

    I have my reasons for liking the sequence which for me includes all the stuff from Body works exhibit. The setting of the airport tarmac at night is also something I like, possibly because it reminds me of a sequence from a Bondian anime called Wicked City that I really loved back in the day. Not to mention the sequence plays like a love letter to the Dalton/Glen films i.e TLD PTS, the aviation tanker and plane from the afghan airbase raid, and the LTK tanker chase.
  • Posts: 232
    Not a fan of the miami thing, largely because it lacks the emotional connection that I mentioned above as being present in LTK's finale. We're just chasing another faceless guy in a feeling-way-too-DIEHARD way, and they aren't even making much of an effort to shoot Bond from below or hide the Craig height issue in most of the airport stuff, inside or out, so he's seeming even less Bondlike than usual.

    Also, given how SKYFALL portrays Bond as (for me) failing completely in what he is supposed to be doing, and how CR ends with the money probably all still missing, the films that are 'supposed' to be the good ones in this reboot (QUANTUM is the only one I can rewatch, and he does at least succeed in most of his mission here eventually) are showing a Bond who is something of a loser who doesn't even manage to complete his missions successfully, so it might have been more in keeping with this theme if Bond had failed to prevent the explosion, but still brought attention to the perp so that nobody would be able to cash in on the put options of the stock ... a victory, but a victory with significant human loss, which is also in keeping with the Craig era.
  • DrShatterhandDrShatterhand Garden of Death, near Belfast
    Posts: 805
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    The Miami chase is probably my favourite action sequence in CR.

    I'd happily chop out the whole of the Miami sequence. Just adds unnecessarily to the story, making Bond directly responsible for Le Chiffre having to enter the card game could've been done in a far more elegant and concise way.

  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Well the tank chase is one of the reasons I became a Bond fan
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