Spectre title song - Writing's on the Wall

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  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    Enough said. I look forward to the movie with or without a song I love
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    DrGorner wrote: »
    After many plays, I'm loving it. :)

    In about two days, so will everybody.
  • Every Bond year for me has FOUR pivotal dates. And I don't care if I hear the song earlier than during the actual premiere of the film:

    --> Date no# 1, the title song release: This release date gets me not just excited. It gives me insomnia. I start re-listening all the scores, organizing the collection of Bond songs and scores I have. I become close to 'autistic' in the sense that I don't care so much for other people :-P. The actual very first time I hear the song is the moment where I can either be very happy (release of "SkyFall") or very bloddy disappointed ("Another Way To Die"). The date for the title song release is upcoming Friday, September 25th.
    --> Date no# 2, the film score release: Another 'orgasmic' date for me. It's another pivotal 'premiere date'. I don't care if the title tracks spoil me a bit. Come on guys, even without those SonyLeaks we have already been spoiled a great deal thanks to the very essence of a forum, our beloved MI6community. The very first time I hear the score, I will surely put the score on repeat constantly. I can have a very good feeling, in that I approve of the score (Thomas Newman, "SkyFall"), but disappointment also happens (David Arnold, "Quantum Of Solace"). The date for the film score release is Friday, October 23rd. I hope the first track will include the gunbarrel sequence ;-).
    --> Date no#3, the UK royal premiere webcast of the film: I closely watched the webcast back in 2012 of the Royal Premiere of "SkyFall" at the Royal Albert Hall. Always lovely to see all the stars, especially previous Bond stars. I still recall Sir Christopher Lee arriving with a walking stick and a great sense of humour on the red carpet. Also cute to see actor Ben Whishaw being so happy like a little kid. As if he never experienced that before. Royal premiere webcast will be Monday, October 26th.
    --> Date no#4, the first ever time I bloody see the new Bond film in cinema!: Back in 2012 my first time viewing was so flawed. You know why? I made a mistake in the reservation. Me and my friend went on Friday 10:00 PM showing in Barcelona, and then at the ticket control the tickets said "for viewing on Saturday, 10:00 PM". I was begutted :-O! We could see the film at the very back of the cinema. Nasty experience, as I couldn't see the main title sequence properly :-(. Will not happen again this year!! Premiere date in Barcelona, Spain is Friday, November 6th.


    And guess what, the first pivotal date is tomorrow already :-O !!!

    "Pivotal date no#1" is behind us now. Now let's move on to "Pivotal date no#2" :-D! The release of Thomas Newman's score, Friday October 23rd!
  • The song is great, the orchestration has great depth and Sam's vocal is tender and telling. His telling a story of love and sacrifice this man called James Bond will make for that love!

    But it doesn't get well to international ears IMO, his English is far harder to understand to me than Adele's for instance. Not sure I would have been able to make 100% of the lyrics after a few listens (now that I've read the lyrics I can't play this game), while for Adele it was ok from Day 1.

    So most of the international audience will judge this song without the lyrics IMO.
  • Posts: 725
    The song is great, the orchestration has great depth and Sam's vocal is tender and telling. His telling a story of love and sacrifice this man called James Bond will make for that love!

    But it doesn't get well to international ears IMO, his English is far harder to understand to me than Adele's for instance. Not sure I would have been able to make 100% of the lyrics after a few listens (now that I've read the lyrics I can't play this game), while for Adele it was ok from Day 1.

    So most of the international audience will judge this song without the lyrics IMO.

    Hey - that it actually a very good thing. The less the international audience can make out those lyrics, the better. Now if we could just do something to hide the falsetto. Maybe Newman can drown it out with 100 more violins.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I just heard Madonna's Frozen on the radio.

    I immediately thought that song would have been great for this film, from what I've heard about it. Something like that could have come from Swann's perspective, rather than Bond's.

    Perhaps they should have got her back to redeem herself with something similar. That would have definitely gotten the internet squawking.. All press is good press.

  • Posts: 187
    The problem for me is that it just doesn't fit the mold of a classic Bond ballad and it doesn't feel like a Bond song. It suffers the same fate as Die Another Die and Another Way to Die where they tried to make it too much their own and not a James Bond tune. There are ways to successfully have it both ways like Skyfall (which sounds very Adele and Bond at the same time) as well as View to a Kill. But this one I feel fails at that.

    All the Time in the World, Nobody Does it Better, If There Was a Man, Moonraker.....these all sound like Bondian tracks in both the lyrics and the music. Literally the only thing in this track that feels even slightly, remotely Bondian to me is the orchestration. The lyrics are just too needy and desperate which I've noticed seems to be a trend in Sam Smith tunes from streaming his catalogue.

    Granted, I'll reserve final judgment until I've seen the finished product and how it fits together with the main titles but I'm just still not sold after, according to iTunes, my 20'th listen. Sam Smith wrote a song for Sam Smith in my opinion, not a James Bond film. This is up there with a lot of the other rejects we've heard in recent memory. Perhaps what could've sold me on this track is if they'd brought in the composer to help or a Bond veteran like Don Black. It also probably doesn't help he wrote this in 20 minutes flat because knowing that, it sounds like a demo to me, something unpolished and unfinished. Frankly, it sounds rushed and lazy. Yes, the melody and chord progression is good but I mean, come on, the flat ending, the uninspired falsetto bits.... As much as I don't like this song, I still think he could've given us something outstanding and that's the most frustrating bit.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited September 2015 Posts: 6,385
    Zekidk wrote: »
    The Atlantic nails it:
    "All the previous men to create 007 anthems performed over-the-top virility: In Jones’s case, it was with lounge-singer swagger and adventure-narrator drama; in the cases of Paul McCartney, or Jack White, or Chris Cornell, it was with seething rock edge. Smith is doing something else entirely—going supremely emotional, vulnerable, weak.

    Smith sounds so fragile there that you could argue he’s subverting the franchise, or betraying it. The James Bond character is lizardlike and amoral, a sex machine who’s always made to regret the rare instances when he allows a woman to hold power over him. The Daniel Craig era has complicated this notion, but not to the extent that Smith now has. Handwringing about a supposed cultural assault on masculinity awaits, no doubt."
    http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/09/writings-on-the-wall-sam-smiths-radically-wimpy-james-bond-theme/407383/

    What about Matt Munro and a-ha? Vulnerable male singers.

    Let's be honest, a lot of the Bond love songs make no sense because how often has Bond fallen in love? I suppose it could happen again...
  • Posts: 2,081
    Thanks, @bondjames, I hadn't listened to that in ages. It's a good one... from her best album, as well (in my opinion, obviously).
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    I'm seeing the same pattern that emerged with SF: if you didn't think it was the best/one of the best Bond films ever, the problem wasn't with the film-it was with you. See the "why criticism of skyfall never caught on" thread. Here we're seeing the same thing. You're close-minded. You're a bigot. You can't handle change. Some of the more ardent defenders of this song can't accept that some people don't like this song and probably never will and that that is perfectly ok.
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 984
    I like the song. Its good, not as good as Skyfall or You Know My Name, but its good in its own right and it probably suits the theme of the movie. Definitely not the worse one like some have said since apparently they probably have never heard Die Another Day. I just don't like the fact that Sam Smith said he got the song done in 20 mins. Maybe if he had taken longer to do it, it would be just that bit better. Right now its good, but it just lacks a certain wow factor to it to make a mark. It just sounds really safe.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited September 2015 Posts: 4,116
    WOTW is growing on me ...the vocal sound still doesn't seem to match what I imagine is the mood of the film.

    I just can't seem to imagine how the titles will match the song and the film.

    Am I being brainwashed?

    Btw @bondjames spot on with Madonna's Frozen ...my new unofficial Madeleine theme.
  • marketto007marketto007 Brazil
    Posts: 3,277
    Sam Smith in Brazil yesterday after his show in Rock In Rio. :D

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    CP9NKRjWEAAx6zs.jpg CP9NKR1WoAACYZi.jpg
  • He looks exhausted.
  • Posts: 4,622
    I've just listened to Lana Del Ray's new album, Honeymoon, it's really superb. She would have done a fabulous Bond song. Instead we've got this pony & trap!
    It does sap your enthusiasm for 'Spectre'.
    Hopefully eon will have the wisdom to ditch it.
    I think the movie will be quite good, but this song is bloody awful. There are only 2 other Bond title songs that I don't like (DAD and AWTD) but this drivel is worst of the three.
    Can't believe I listened all the way thru. If I'd randomly caught this on car radio, would have changed station in 10-20s.
    Not even curious to listen again. Next time I hear it will be in cinema.Arghhh.
    #worstBondsongever
  • marketto007marketto007 Brazil
    Posts: 3,277
    Gunbarrel wrote: »
    He looks exhausted.

    Drunk is the right word :D

  • He's tired because of all the hours and effort it took to write WOTW.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    Gunbarrel wrote: »
    He's tired because of all the hours and effort it took to write WOTW.

    With a couple extra minutes, he could have completed the score.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    Good to have you back @timmer.
  • edited September 2015 Posts: 3,333
    MrEon wrote: »
    A lot of negative vibes here! The song fits the film remember, the feel, the emotion, the whole story of whats about to unfold in front of you in the cinema!
    The song gives you a huge insight into whats going to happen in this spectacular film, with Bond, the love he feels and the sacrifice his going to take for that love. Were not talking Vesper all over again, but the love that makes you change direction and walk away from what you've only ever know, and "risk it all" for that, the commitment his prepared to give to this love!! Listen to it properly after you've seen the film, and feel the emotion of what's just happened, your see and hear it very differently!?

    Your comments are always welcome, @MrEon. But what you say here is that the song works mostly in retrospect to how the film concludes rather than what proceeds it. Therefore, wouldn't it have been a better artistic decision to place the love song at the end of the movie and have a more upbeat tempo version at the start, such as FRWL? Adele got away with it because her song wasn't a love ballad but more a foreshadowing coral of the collateral to come, plus it was a cracking good tune to boot.

    For me, the same could be said of "See You Again" - Wiz Khalifa (feat. Charlie Puth) at the close of Fast and Furious 7 - it just wouldn't have had the same emotional impact that it did if they had placed the song at the start of the movie. The problem I see is that we're meant to understand Bond's heartfelt misgivings after an explosive start to the movie and before we've even arrived at this emotional juncture in the story, especially as you point out that this song doesn't refer to Vesper or any of his previous loves, and nor should it for that matter IMHO.

    Of course I haven't seen, if and how, TWOTW works after the PTS or as a bridge to the first Act. I'm sure DK will produce another great title sequence, not that that was ever in doubt. I'm just curious to see whether after all this negativity how people will judge it in context to the opening first 10 minutes. Maybe what you're alluding to is that Sam's song is meant to be Bond's swan song and it'll all make perfect sense once the movie is over, even though DC is contracted for one more Bond? Personally, I still think the FRWL approach is the best way to go when having a love ballad for its main song.

    Also, as I know that you work with composer Mr Newman, I was hoping you could either confirm whether or not if Sam Smith's musical themes have been included more prominently in SP more than Adele's wonderful song was in the SF score? Maybe that's too much of a big ask?
  • TuxedoTuxedo Europe
    Posts: 262
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    MrEon wrote: »
    A lot of negative vibes here! The song fits the film remember, the feel, the emotion, the whole story of whats about to unfold in front of you in the cinema!
    The song gives you a huge insight into whats going to happen in this spectacular film, with Bond, the love he feels and the sacrifice his going to take for that love. Were not talking Vesper all over again, but the love that makes you change direction and walk away from what you've only ever know, and "risk it all" for that, the commitment his prepared to give to this love!! Listen to it properly after you've seen the film, and feel the emotion of whats just happened, your see and hear it very differently!?

    Or maybe you won't be emotionally connected to what your viewing and wish we had the past over and over again, instead of making a film and its music for the here and now!!

    The song is great, the orchestration has great depth and Sam's vocal is tender and telling. His telling a story of love and sacrifice this man called James Bond will make for that love!
    Danny Kleinman's credit sequence is astonishing, and whats more the film is too! A pure roller coaster of stunning story telling, through utterly compelling action and for me the emotional connection that has been part of many of us all for such a long time through our life, Bond Films and what this means to us! From a child to adulthood, the thrill that going to a cinema to see a new Bond film gives you!!

    Friends have faith...This will rock you and excite you in equal measure, but most of I think it make you believe in whats coming next, when the dust settles and whats left!! Very exciting times indeed!

    (I can't believe the lack of vision some have on here! This is going to a Bond film like no other, and will leave you breathless for more, so have some forward thinking vision, and stop this harking back to what's been done before, and why couldn't we have this kind of film/song/score bull!)


    Keep the faith,

    MrEon.

    Couldn't agree more. Very well said :-)

    I hope the movie rocks us, I truly do, but the song does not... The fact you think the song is great unfortunately invalidates everything else you said, as optimistic and visionary as it may be... and if the song fits the feel and emotions of the film then it will confirm fears of the direction started with Skyfall that require melodrama over drama, suspense and action.

    Imagine a great song being released... a Live and Let Die, an On Her Majesty's Secret Service... then no one would be bitching and we'd all be thrilled and excited.

    The cast is awesome, the previews look good, I love Daniel Craig... The writers and director have their Achille's heals and we'll see if they overcome... but no matter how much I like the movie, the song by itself will never do it for me. It's not my type of music, I don't find it epic, I don't find it romantic and it doesn't inspire or move me. I look forward to Danny Kleinman salvaging it, but wish he had help with a song I could like.

    Yep!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited September 2015 Posts: 12,480
    I am still very stoked about the film itself. All the discussion and varying criticisms and disagreements about liking the title song or not really do not lessen my enthusiasm for the film at all. And I think no matter that the song is only middling for me (definitely not great, and I am open to different kinds of music for a Bond title song) won't matter much at all as far as my enjoyment in the theater goes.

    Surely we'll have a fantastic opening sequence (I do have high hopes for this film) and the song will sound ever so much better in the theater. And then we hop into the story and go for this ride.

    Sam was hired because of his current popularity, and in itself that is not necessarily bad or good. He can sing. I simply find the song itself very disappointing and underwhelming, as well as the vocals being sung so high a mistake. This is simply my point of view. I still respect Sam as a singer and I accept that EON likes to choose the current popular singer (not always, but sure they do at times) because that can be a draw for people who are nonBond fans. Having a great, exciting Bond title song adds buzz, hopefully that means more tickets for the film bought. I understand that.

    I've listened to it plenty. It is not horrible, not the worst Bond title song. But it will remain in the lower half for me, yes. Disappointing and just not memorable. Needs a better melody, aside from being sung in a lower key (which would, for sure, help a good deal). I wish it were a song I wanted to keep in my head, to revisit, to savor. It is not memorable at all for me.

    I don't hate Sam or the song. And overall, the song won't have a big negative impact on the film itself. So I'm not really concerned. Just wanted one that was top notch, and it does not feel like that at all to me. Still hoping richer orchestration can be added for the final version that will be in the film itself. One can hope. :)
  • MrLunnMrLunn Lunnigham
    Posts: 60
    WOTW extened version.

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,584
    It's only a great article if you agree with it, as it is with all of these 'lists'.

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Some odd choices in that article. :)
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    NicNac wrote: »
    It's only a great article if you agree with it, as it is with all of these 'lists'.
    DrGorner wrote: »
    Some odd choices in that article. :)

    Fully agree with both of you.
  • MrLunnMrLunn Lunnigham
    Posts: 60
    odd as in nancy's song? some should challenge your thinking, which is a good thing.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Tomorrow never dies at #2 best, seems a little odd to me. :D
  • Posts: 4,617
    guys, its the Metro, don't expect Shakespeare
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