Spectre title song - Writing's on the Wall

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  • Posts: 4,617
    sorry, forgot to add, I am not a U2 fan, but you have to respect Goldeneye because it was written as a Bond theme. Can you imagine if they had produced just another U2 track? They wrote for the market and the product. Goldeneye would never ever fit in on a U2 album. SS's effort would just sit, hiding as an album track.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @Gustav_Graves

    Conchita won in a landslide victory and without juries that victory would have broken every record!
    It was once more only the social media that went beserk over her/him and not the general public which accepted the act and simply voted for the best performance and song.
    And yes I was crying after the performance and when it was clear Austria would win!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    antovolk wrote: »
    I see that there is a sizeable number of people against the whole auteur approach to Bond?

    Something just came to my mind.

    Bond did not cry when holding dead Vesper at the end of CR. He was livid and bursting at the seams, but did not cry. She was, at that point, the love of his life.

    He was bawling at the end of SF when holding dead M.

    It just came to me after reading your post. The auteur's influence?
  • Posts: 3,164
    Walecs wrote: »
    michallo_w wrote: »
    Hey guys, when can we expect music video?
    @michallo_w October 5th

    Has that been announced, and if it has, where has this been announced?
  • Posts: 1,181
    I have listened to the song many more times since when I posted a few days ago. My feelings are about the same about the falsetto parts, but I wanted to send some positive vibes to the thread.

    Here's my favorite parts of the song:

    Intro - Nice string and horn part. Draws me into the song with a Bond vibe.

    Pre-Chorus: "If I risk it all..." (Pure and Powerful F4, G4, and G#4 notes) SS shows off his vocal strength during this part.

    Chorus: When SS comes out of falsetto and hits "The Wall" with a solid soulful F4 again.

    Instrumental - Brilliant brass line.

    I definitely don't "hate" the song. I think we are all extremely invested emotionally in Bond. We all have ideas about where the series should go and how it should go about doing that. There have been many letdowns in the past for each one of us I'm sure. I can definitely see where people are coming from with some of the critical feedback.

    Sam is obviously a talented person and I'm happy for SS that the song is a success and hope it drives people into see the movie and buy it when it comes out on DVD/BR/Digital. I'm just as excited for the film as I was before the release of the song. Actually now I'm more excited to see how the title sequence works out.
  • Posts: 4,617
    I love these chats but we are know way off topic re Bond crying, I have my own thoughts but not for this thread
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    I love these chats but we are know way off topic re Bond crying, I have my own thoughts but not for this thread

    It's directly relevant in terms of how much of Bond's inner psyche and emotions should be revealed to the audience (visually or via lyrics that reflect his turmoil). This goes back to my point about what Campbell said about the Vesper romance and how difficult it was to get the balance right when CR came out. He agonized about it, according to his statements at the time, and indicated that it was a fine line. Cross it and the audience could lose faith in Bond.

    I'm sure SP will be fine because those who've read the scripts are not suggesting anywhere that we'll have waterworks.....so perhaps this soul bearing is just limited to the song. I sure hope so.
  • edited September 2015 Posts: 2,081
    patb wrote: »
    sorry, forgot to add, I am not a U2 fan, but you have to respect Goldeneye because it was written as a Bond theme. Can you imagine if they had produced just another U2 track? They wrote for the market and the product. Goldeneye would never ever fit in on a U2 album. SS's effort would just sit, hiding as an album track.

    I pondered this for a while to see if I'd agree or not, and while I do think that Goldeneye is very Bondian, I concluded that I'm not at all sure that it "would never ever fit in on a U2 album" considering how many kinds of stuff they've managed to fit in there over the years. Some of their albums are so different from one another - and sometimes some tracks on the same album are so different from one another - that they could be by different bands (especially back then, not so much now), so I see no reason why the Bond tune they wrote couldn't have fit in, too.
    bondjames wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    I see that there is a sizeable number of people against the whole auteur approach to Bond?

    Something just came to my mind.

    Bond did not cry when holding dead Vesper at the end of CR. He was livid and bursting at the seams, but did not cry. She was, at that point, the love of his life.

    He was bawling at the end of SF when holding dead M.

    It just came to me after reading your post. The auteur's influence?

    That was hardly bawling. :)

  • edited September 2015 Posts: 4,617
    bondjames wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    I love these chats but we are know way off topic re Bond crying, I have my own thoughts but not for this thread

    It's directly relevant in terms of how much of Bond's inner psyche and emotions should be revealed to the audience (visually or via lyrics that reflect his turmoil). This goes back to my point about what Campbell said about the Vesper romance and how difficult it was to get the balance right when CR came out. He agonized about it, according to his statements at the time, and indicated that it was a fine line. Cross it and the audience could lose faith in Bond.

    I'm sure SP will be fine because those who've read the scripts are not suggesting anywhere that we'll have waterworks.....so perhaps this soul bearing is just limited to the song. I sure hope so.

    But I have seen some posts questioning whether the lyrics are actually from Bond and asking why we should think that (although I think its a very reasonable assumption to make)
  • MrLunnMrLunn Lunnigham
    Posts: 60
    NicNac wrote: »
    MrLunn wrote: »
    Today is the day I learned to love it. It's abolutely great really. Gives me the chills. Not as good as Adele but still really good.

    Okay, we are all with you here, we can help you get through this. Just stay calm and follow these instructions and it'll be all back to normal. Deep breaths now...

    Go to itunes playlist. Type in the search box...James Bond theme songs...do not type in Sam Smith...repeat do not type in Sam Smith this will again cause shallow sensations in your inner ear...hit search button....good, you're doing really well...now choose We have all the time in the world....and then play....this should take you back to the feeling of James Bond classic songs not soggy toast with Marmite.
    It's really good to welcome you to these forums @MrLunn, and I hope you enjoy your time here. However you have come in here as a new member this month and dished out maybe a little too much sarcasm towards longer standing members. Better to take some time and get to know people before you become quite so judgemental.

    You don't like the song, I think I get that now.

    Yes quite.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Tuulia wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    I see that there is a sizeable number of people against the whole auteur approach to Bond?

    Something just came to my mind.

    Bond did not cry when holding dead Vesper at the end of CR. He was livid and bursting at the seams, but did not cry. She was, at that point, the love of his life.

    He was bawling at the end of SF when holding dead M.

    It just came to me after reading your post. The auteur's influence?

    That was hardly bawling. :)

    Much more than we've seen from him up to that time ever, and that was my point. Certainly more than I was comfortable with. The issue is, how much more of the 'peel back' or 'armour strip' is necessary these days?

    I've never been critical of that scene before (although many have on the respective SF debate threads, and I understand their point of view). However, once I heard the lyrics to this song, with the further 'soul bearing' that is taking place, I (someone who tends not to be as critical of it generally compared to some) wonder how much is enough.

    As I said, perhaps this is just something that is reserved for the song this time, and not the film. That way, the song gives us the insight into the soul, ensuring we don't have to endure direct exposition of it in the theatre.

    That will work for me, and then it all makes sense.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Sark wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Sark wrote: »
    Sark wrote: »
    Funny how critics of the song are accused of being close-minded and not accepting new ideas of what constitutes a Bond song, then @Bondjasonbon006 says it's the first "proper Bond song" of the Craig era.

    Jason, do you think LALD is a "rock song that doesn't sound Bond"?

    LALD is nothing like YKMN and George Martin could have made anything sound like Bond.

    The problem definitely aren't the supporters of WOTW but the hysterical critics that go to any length to bash Sam Smith, and the song.
    This thread is testament to that.
    What do you think our motive is for bashing WOTW?

    You'd have to tell us. Some of the hate seems incredibly disproportionate. Given one member appears to have joined simply to berate the 'egotist', Sam Smith, I'd have to say some (not all) have some sort of agenda. What that is, who knows?

    Well, it could be that many people just plain don't like it. My point was that, like SF, many of WOTW's defenders refuse to accept that other people can in good faith not like it.

    As for why people are vitriolic? Because James Bond is important to us. Otherwise we wouldn't be posting on these forums. Are people any more vitriolic than they were about DAD (song and film)? I highly doubt it.

    It's very clear that some people simply don't like it, but there are certainly people on here who are being vitriolic not just about the song, but about the man himself. It seems way over the top.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,344
    Yes, and the vitriol needs to stop.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Sorry, but not seeing the 'vitriol' on balance in this thread.

    Just disappointment by some, appreciation by others, and interesting discussion as in any thread.

    Not more heated than should be expected for a new Bond song, not more insulting, just on par.
  • Posts: 4,617
    I dont think I have seen any personal attacks on the songwriter himself within the discussion but, if so, that is out of order
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    Sorry, but not seeing the 'vitriol' on balance in this thread.

    Just disappointment by some, appreciation by others, and interesting discussion as in any thread.

    Not more heated than should be expected for a new Bond song, not more insulting, just on par.

    Words like, 'putrid', 'vile', 'insipid', 'limp-wristed', 'sappy', 'egotistical'... not words I'd associate with mere 'disappointment'. Anyhow, I've let myself down over this once already and don't intend to again. I just genuinely found it a shame that certain people immediately went in for the kill like blood-thirsty vultures.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Sorry, but not seeing the 'vitriol' on balance in this thread.

    Just disappointment by some, appreciation by others, and interesting discussion as in any thread.

    Not more heated than should be expected for a new Bond song, not more insulting, just on par.

    Words like, 'putrid', 'vile', 'insipid', 'limp-wristed', 'sappy', 'egotistical'... not words I'd associate with mere 'disappointment'. Anyhow, I've let myself down over this once already and don't intend to again. I just genuinely found it a shame that certain people immediately went in for the kill like blood-thirsty vultures.

    Again, maybe I'm missing something, but that conversation was long done with some time ago. We have been discussing things rather intelligently here since.

    Of course we aren't going to agree on everything, and particularly not on a song.

    I think why this thing this has touched a nerve (and as I've said so many times before, it should have been anticipated) is because the song is getting at masculinity in a way......it's touched some of us in a very raw way. Those who don't like it think it's sappy, and those who do like it are sensitive to that assertion because they may think it personally reflects on them for liking it. Lyrical choices like 'I'm suffocating' sung in falsetto when relating to Bond's psyche can be very impactful in either direction.

    It's brilliant marketing as I've said, but highly controversial.

    As long as it doesn't do long term damage outside the immediate fanbase (all of us are going to see the movie several times anyway regardless of what we think to this song) I don't care.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Sorry, but not seeing the 'vitriol' on balance in this thread.

    Just disappointment by some, appreciation by others, and interesting discussion as in any thread.

    Not more heated than should be expected for a new Bond song, not more insulting, just on par.

    Words like, 'putrid', 'vile', 'insipid', 'limp-wristed', 'sappy', 'egotistical'... not words I'd associate with mere 'disappointment'. Anyhow, I've let myself down over this once already and don't intend to again. I just genuinely found it a shame that certain people immediately went in for the kill like blood-thirsty vultures.

    You are correct with your assessement.
    Obviously some find it ok that everything is fair game.
    Well may they dwell in it, I'm out.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Sorry, but not seeing the 'vitriol' on balance in this thread.

    Just disappointment by some, appreciation by others, and interesting discussion as in any thread.

    Not more heated than should be expected for a new Bond song, not more insulting, just on par.

    Words like, 'putrid', 'vile', 'insipid', 'limp-wristed', 'sappy', 'egotistical'... not words I'd associate with mere 'disappointment'. Anyhow, I've let myself down over this once already and don't intend to again. I just genuinely found it a shame that certain people immediately went in for the kill like blood-thirsty vultures.

    Again, maybe I'm missing something, but that conversation was long done with some time ago. We have been discussing things rather intelligently here since.

    Of course we aren't going to agree on everything, and particularly not on a song.

    I think why thing this has touched a nerve (and as I've said so many times before, it should have been anticipated) is because the song is getting at masculinity in a way......it's touched some of us in a very raw way. Those who don't like it think it's sappy, and those who do like it are sensitive to that assertion because they may think it personally reflects on them for liking it.

    It's brilliant marketing as I've said, but highly controversial.

    As long as it doesn't do long term damage outside the immediate fanbase (we're all going to see the movie several times anyway regardless of what we think to this song) I don't care.

    Quite. One could also argue that those who don't like it are equally sensitive to how that may reflect on them amongst their alpha peers; which given some of the stuff that is posted on here wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. I'm quite happy to say it struck an emotional chord with me. If that make me sappy, so be it.
  • edited September 2015 Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    I see that there is a sizeable number of people against the whole auteur approach to Bond?

    Something just came to my mind.

    Bond did not cry when holding dead Vesper at the end of CR. He was livid and bursting at the seams, but did not cry. She was, at that point, the love of his life.

    He was bawling at the end of SF when holding dead M.

    It just came to me after reading your post. The auteur's influence?

    This is one of the main reasons I disliked SF. Tone was wrong and IMO Mendes did not 'get' Bond. Bond in SF seems a different character from the one in CR and QoS.

    IMO Bond would be more upset about the fact he'd screwed up than emotionally cut up about M's death.

    I'm hoping SP has a more solid take on the Central character.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Sorry, but not seeing the 'vitriol' on balance in this thread.

    Just disappointment by some, appreciation by others, and interesting discussion as in any thread.

    Not more heated than should be expected for a new Bond song, not more insulting, just on par.

    Words like, 'putrid', 'vile', 'insipid', 'limp-wristed', 'sappy', 'egotistical'... not words I'd associate with mere 'disappointment'. Anyhow, I've let myself down over this once already and don't intend to again. I just genuinely found it a shame that certain people immediately went in for the kill like blood-thirsty vultures.

    Again, maybe I'm missing something, but that conversation was long done with some time ago. We have been discussing things rather intelligently here since.

    Of course we aren't going to agree on everything, and particularly not on a song.

    I think why thing this has touched a nerve (and as I've said so many times before, it should have been anticipated) is because the song is getting at masculinity in a way......it's touched some of us in a very raw way. Those who don't like it think it's sappy, and those who do like it are sensitive to that assertion because they may think it personally reflects on them for liking it.

    It's brilliant marketing as I've said, but highly controversial.

    As long as it doesn't do long term damage outside the immediate fanbase (we're all going to see the movie several times anyway regardless of what we think to this song) I don't care.

    Quite. One could also argue that those who don't like it are equally sensitive to how that may reflect on them amongst their alpha peers; which given some of the stuff that is posted on here wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. I'm quite happy to say it struck an emotional chord with me. If that make me sappy, so be it.

    Precisely, as I said in my bolded comments above.

    Brilliant marketing, but it may do damage to the alpha males outside our little universe (we're all going to go see it anyway).
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    I'd like to participate, I really would, but I still haven't heard it yet :P
    Avoiding all radio & promo material. Still trying to leave it for the 1st viewing...

    Although having read all the comments since the song came out I am not in the slightest surprised - it was always going to be a relatively safe & mediocre song that played to Sam Smith's vocal strengths (the falsetto's people seem to dislike).
    Some like it, some don't. I wasn't a big fan of Adele's SF, thought YKMN and even FYEO were better to be honest... so I'll reserve judgement.
  • Posts: 11,425
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Sorry, but not seeing the 'vitriol' on balance in this thread.

    Just disappointment by some, appreciation by others, and interesting discussion as in any thread.

    Not more heated than should be expected for a new Bond song, not more insulting, just on par.

    Words like, 'putrid', 'vile', 'insipid', 'limp-wristed', 'sappy', 'egotistical'... not words I'd associate with mere 'disappointment'. Anyhow, I've let myself down over this once already and don't intend to again. I just genuinely found it a shame that certain people immediately went in for the kill like blood-thirsty vultures.

    Again, maybe I'm missing something, but that conversation was long done with some time ago. We have been discussing things rather intelligently here since.

    Of course we aren't going to agree on everything, and particularly not on a song.

    I think why thing this has touched a nerve (and as I've said so many times before, it should have been anticipated) is because the song is getting at masculinity in a way......it's touched some of us in a very raw way. Those who don't like it think it's sappy, and those who do like it are sensitive to that assertion because they may think it personally reflects on them for liking it.

    It's brilliant marketing as I've said, but highly controversial.

    As long as it doesn't do long term damage outside the immediate fanbase (we're all going to see the movie several times anyway regardless of what we think to this song) I don't care.

    Quite. One could also argue that those who don't like it are equally sensitive to how that may reflect on them amongst their alpha peers; which given some of the stuff that is posted on here wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. I'm quite happy to say it struck an emotional chord with me. If that make me sappy, so be it.

    Well I was unashamed defender of Sam Smith over the past few months on here and I don't particualrly like the song.

    It's not a disaster from my perspective. It will probably suit the film quite well. It's just that it doesn't grab me. As others have said, it sounds like an album track and probably not a single.

    It's better than lame pastiches like TND or TWINE though.

    I really think it's such a shame EON don't require collaboration with the score composer as a prerequisite.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    Getafix wrote: »
    It's not a disaster from my perspective. It will probably suit the film quite well. It's just that it doesn't grab me. As others have said, it sounds like an album track and probably not a single.

    It's better than lame pastiches like TND or TWINE though.

    I really think it's such a shame EON don't require collaboration with the score composer as a prerequisite.

    Head of nail ---> HIT.
  • Posts: 4,617
    I would love to sit with Arnold over a pint and get his views on SS's effort.
  • RC7RC7
    edited September 2015 Posts: 10,512
    AceHole wrote: »
    Although having read all the comments since the song came out I am not in the slightest surprised - it was always going to be a relatively safe & mediocre song that played to Sam Smith's vocal strengths (the falsetto's people seem to dislike).
    Some like it, some don't. I wasn't a big fan of Adele's SF, thought YKMN and even FYEO were better to be honest... so I'll reserve judgement.

    I wouldn't call it safe, or mediocre. I think you could argue that case for SF, potentially, but I don't think there would be such a polarising view if that were the case for WOTW. It was always going to sound like a Sam Smith song. The key is whether you take to his voice, the lyrics and the overall style. It's somewhat different to what you might expect, outside his voice imo.
    AceHole wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    It's not a disaster from my perspective. It will probably suit the film quite well. It's just that it doesn't grab me. As others have said, it sounds like an album track and probably not a single.

    It's better than lame pastiches like TND or TWINE though.

    I really think it's such a shame EON don't require collaboration with the score composer as a prerequisite.

    Head of nail ---> HIT.

    Agree, but we're all aware that is not the case right now, as much as we'd like it to be. Labouring over it won't change it.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    RC7 wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    Although having read all the comments since the song came out I am not in the slightest surprised - it was always going to be a relatively safe & mediocre song that played to Sam Smith's vocal strengths (the falsetto's people seem to dislike).
    Some like it, some don't. I wasn't a big fan of Adele's SF, thought YKMN and even FYEO were better to be honest... so I'll reserve judgement.

    I wouldn't call it safe, or mediocre. I think you could argue that case for SF, potentially, but I don't think there would be such a polarising view if that were the case for WOTW. It was always going to sound like a Sam Smith song. The key is whether you take to his voice, the lyrics and the overall style. It's somewhat different to what you might expect, outside his voice imo.

    Although I can't truly comment on the 'mediocre' label yet, I find it hard to believe that SS has made an edgy song ... (ie. not what I'd call 'safe')
    But yes, I found SF rather 'safe' and not in the least bit inspired.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    AceHole wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    Although having read all the comments since the song came out I am not in the slightest surprised - it was always going to be a relatively safe & mediocre song that played to Sam Smith's vocal strengths (the falsetto's people seem to dislike).
    Some like it, some don't. I wasn't a big fan of Adele's SF, thought YKMN and even FYEO were better to be honest... so I'll reserve judgement.

    I wouldn't call it safe, or mediocre. I think you could argue that case for SF, potentially, but I don't think there would be such a polarising view if that were the case for WOTW. It was always going to sound like a Sam Smith song. The key is whether you take to his voice, the lyrics and the overall style. It's somewhat different to what you might expect, outside his voice imo.

    Although I can't truly comment on the 'mediocre' label yet, I find it hard to believe that SS has made an edgy song ... (ie. not what I'd call 'safe')
    But yes, I found SF rather 'safe' and not in the least bit inspired.

    Honestly, next to SF I would argue it's more divergent and works in a way you wouldn't consider a trad Bond track to. There are strings that feel quite classic, but outside of that there's much more experimentation imo. I'm not holding out much hope you'll like it, though.
  • edited September 2015 Posts: 11,425
    I heard Sam Smith say he didn't care how it performed in the charts, he was just interested in honouring the Bond song legacy.

    Well, I think he may well have achieved the complete opposite. He appears to have a number one single, but I very much doubt this song is going to go down as one of the Bond classics.

    After repeated listens I am still unable to remember a single bar of the song.

    Also why so slow? It seems it's just picked up on something Adele started. Could have been a bit faster IMO.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    edited September 2015 Posts: 1,731
    RC7 wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    Although I can't truly comment on the 'mediocre' label yet, I find it hard to believe that SS has made an edgy song ... (ie. not what I'd call 'safe')
    But yes, I found SF rather 'safe' and not in the least bit inspired.

    Honestly, next to SF I would argue it's more divergent and works in a way you wouldn't consider a trad Bond track to. There are strings that feel quite classic, but outside of that there's much more experimentation imo. I'm not holding out much hope you'll like it, though.

    I was very critical of EoN's decision to go with SS - but honestly I'm approaching both the song and the film with a completely open mind & will judge both purely on their quality, nothing else.
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