Diamonds are Forever: overreaction to ohmss or overdue recalibration?

ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
in Bond Movies Posts: 757
In 1969, James Bond got married and became a widower all in the course of one movie, and to the tune of over 80 million worldwide. Definitely not a flop, it was a drop from the grosses of the previous James Bond movie. So what happens next?
The sky is falling.
Do you pick up with oo7 on his personal mission of revenge? Or do you get nostalgic for 1964 and move heaven and earth to make the world think it's like goldfinger all over again?
In the end, they went with goldfinger redux and you have to wonder. Were they right? Box office grosses state they were, but I disagree. They went the safe route and overreacted. The bond movies were never allowed to mature back then. They regressed and the series was certainly not the better for it.
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Comments

  • Posts: 7,430
    Considering OHMSS is my favourite Bond movie, I always looked at DAF with disdain at what could have been. And then I thought, well maybe I wasn't giving it a fair chance. But no, viewing it again recently, its still, in my mind the weakest 007 flick until the Brossa era! Connery was on cruise mode, Jill St John transformation from tough and sexy with her first entrance, to a ditzy airhead towards the end grated, And the less said about Charles Gray the better. (If Waltz IS Blofeld I sincerely hope he doesn't resort to appearing in drag, or maybe Babs and Co. are pulling a fast one and Monica Belluci is Blofeld?!!). Hamiltons direction is lazy, and apart from the lift fight, it contains no excitement whatsoever! Oh, there is one moment that always brings a smile to my face. After Bond hijacks the space vehicle, henchmen on quad bikes pursue. One guy crashes, goes to remount, but WAITS for Connery to sneak up behind him and push him off. LOL.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Yeah, Diamonds is painful to watch. Once you've seen Connery in his prime, it is excruciating to see how he looks in this one
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 3,566
    Overreaction on everybody's parts...including we, the audience. We didn't go to see OHMSS because it wasn't Connery; we came back for DAF because it WAS Connery. Eon had been itching to go in the humorous direction that served Sir Roger so well in later films ever since -- and did, to some extent, with YOLT -- but they held back on that front with OHMSS because the storyline wouldn't have really allowed it. With the relative commercial decline for OHMSS they made up with Sean AND went in the camp direction they'd been wanting to go (remember, Adam West was considered for the part of Bond before it went to Lazenby.) And Connery sort of overreacted as well...he could have put a little more effort into going out as Bond on a high note, instead of just cruising on autopilot as he did for much of the film.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I agree with all the comments in this thread so far. OHMSS is one of the best films in the series.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Would it have been better for bond in the long term by going in a darker and grittier tone, skipping the camp, but possibly going on a hiatus for a time after potential box office apathy?
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Artistically yes. Box officewise no I'm afraid. The cap 70s had arrived.
  • Posts: 486
    OHMSS is my favourite Bond film but DAF is a guilty pleasure of mine. One of Barry's best scores, a witty script and a Connery whom seems to be relishing each line.

    OHMSS may not have grossed as much as the other's had since Dr No but by no means was it a flop so it's a shame that EON wanted to go as far as away from a faithful Fleming adaption with the follow up but I can understand why they wanted to revisit the territory of Goldfinger and repeat some of its successful ingredients. That said I'm glad we didn't get Goldfinger's brother as the villain and an American Bond.

  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Johnny Gavin as Jimmy bond oo7
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Awfull.
  • Posts: 15,124
    DAF was an overraction, most definitely.

    That said, and it pains me to say it because I loathe DAF, I don't think the franchise could have survived another OHMSS-like movie with Lazenby at the time. A OHMSS-like movie with Connery, if his mind had been into it, might have been successful. DAF was sadly a necessary evil at the time. Sadly, it meant Blofeld turned into a joke and the franchise into a spoof of itself.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Connery looks terrible. The script is terrible. The direction is awful, I never liked guy Hamilton
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Until the Brosnan era it's absolute nadir of the series and even then I think at least Brosnan wanted to be Bond and wasn't just picking up the cheque.

    Connery fans will forgive anything he does, the film has one of the finest Bond themes and a quality score but outside of that it's thankful Moore picked up the baton, while I'm not the biggest fan of his era he made the character his own and always treated it with nothing but respect, Connery was absolute opposite of that.

    OHMSS has aged gracefully and looks lavish and is still the classiest and best entry of the series. Never been a fan of Guy Hamilton's direction and wonder if they got Terence Young to direct the sublime PTS to GF.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    OHMSS is the best of the 60's movies imo, it should be the blueprint for any Bond movie.
    Connery not playing the part was unfortunate I guess but then who knows if OHMSS had worked with a Connery that didn't really want to be in it.

    DAF certainly is the low point in the series for me quality wise, at least the other weaker films had good production value.

    Connery having made 6 movies can be forgiven to have one clunker in his tenure.
    Moore also never gets much or any heat for AVTAK because he has made 7 movies.
    If an actor only has made 2-4 movies a "bad" one is weighed much more.
    Luckily to this day all 5 actors except Lazenby had one movie that is considered to be a failure or bad. So DAF having the stigma of being the "bad" one of Connery's tenure doesn't really matter.

    Even when you look at the least liked Bond movies, they still are all much better movies than most than were released in the same years as they were.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I enjoy them both for different reasons.

    The 60's were coming to an end and OHMSS was a great way to end it.

    Was DAF an overreaction? I don't know. It was certainly a reaction to a series that seemed to be in decline at that point (financially speaking). I mean, they threw the kitchen sink at OHMSS (Rigg, faithful adaptation of an excellent novel, amazing director, great action, best score, beautiful locations etc.) and it didn't do as well nor was it as critically well received. It certainly did not have the same cultural impact DC had with a similarly 'deep' novel and with similar resources thrown at it (arguably OHMSS had even more investment).

    The 70's with DAF became a new template which ushered in what was to become the Moore era with its lighter plots and more comedic elements. The series survived, thrived, and reinvented itself, allowing it to be here today.

    I don't consider DAF the nadir by any means. That was unquestionably the late 90's/early 00's from my perspective. Thank heaven for reboots....
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    DAF ruined the series until TLD--16 years wasted.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    echo wrote: »
    DAF ruined the series until TLD--16 years wasted.
    I get where you're coming from here, but I actually enjoyed many Moore outings...
  • Posts: 533
    I think "DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER" is an overreaction to the original reaction to "OHMSS". Pity. I enjoyed the movie, but it was a real crapfest.
  • Posts: 1,631
    Definitely an overreaction to OHMSS. There was nothing about OHMSS that couldn't, or wouldn't, have been fixed by recasting Bond.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 3,333
    I fall into both camps here on DAF. I don't think it's really as bad as some here think it is, there's still lots to enjoy here: John Barry, elevator fight, Wint & Kidd, snappy dialogue, moody Bond, I could go on but I won't. It was inevitable that when GL declined his draconian contract that the producers, in this instance Cubby, decided to make a movie that would make the audience forget the previous one. It would've made even less sense had Connery sought revenge for the murder of Lazenby's wife in OHMSS. Sadly, that plotline went with Lazenby's departure. Not so much an overreaction just a reaction. OHMSS featured a 30 year old Bond, whereas DAF featured a 41 year old Bond.

    It's strange that DAF gets a lot of flack for not being a proper continuation to OHMSS, but the very same people willfully ignore their own favourite later Bond movie and its sequel. Example, not that GE was that great but its sequel TND was a poor continuation of the previous story. For me, DAF should be viewed as a seperate standalone movie.

    I think @beatles gives a good response too. The "lighter" approach was where Cubby wanted to take it. DAF could've been maybe even worse if John Gavin or Adam West had played OO7. How would they have explained a change in nationality? However, I did read that other Bond actor choice Burt Reynolds was at least willing to attempt an English accent.

    Anyway, I think its great that OHMSS gets a lot of love today. So much so that we'll get to see an even more expanded version maybe next year of OHMSS?
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    If Sean had shown a bit of pride, and respect for the audience, he would have come in in shape. There is no reason that he could not have looked basically the same as he did in Thunderball. It would have invigorated the film.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 4,622
    OHMSS and DAF are both excellent films. I wouldn't change a thing in either.
    DAF served as a homage to the golden era that had preceded. Bond films have been high camp since day one, but camp tinged with real and palpable danger and suspense.
    People get seriously beat-up and killed in Bond films. The violence is convincing. DAF just continued this theme but within the context of the loud and flamboyant new decade.The '60s was done. The 70's decade was pure excess.
    In DAF Sean was as dangerous and deadly as ever. It's also one of the most stylish and smart films of the series. The Barry score creates much drama and danger.
    Blofeld, Wint Kidd, are all high-camp villains but very deadly. Tiffany Case is brash and brassy as would befit a 70's Bond girl ensconced in the Vegas criminal underworld.
    Also worth remembering, this movie does not actually come off the back of OHMSS the way QoS follows CR.
    Two years have passed since Tracy was killed. Bond is long past grieving. No-one grieves for two years, especially not an agent like Bond who is used to death.
    Rather, when we encounter Bond in pts, he is in full revenge mode, finally having tracked down Blofeld.
    Sean may not have a gym body, but what 40 year old guy did back then.
    Connery is a naturally powerful intimidating bruiser of a man. He pulls off Bond as tough and as effortlessly as he ever did -smooth yet brutal when need be.
    I found him utterly convincing, and of course there is also the continuity with the 5 films he already did. This is the same Bond that took down Grant on the Orient Express. Peter Franks gets similar treatment.
    I think Laz turned in a first rate performance as Bond in OHMSS. A very worthy stand-in for Connery. Actually the best performance I believe of all of Sean's successors. Has a lot to do with being cast young. I think a 30-something actor with the right look, and requisite athleticism is most convincing as Bond, and I do not mind if such actors continue into their 40's, as long as they started young.
    The GF touch is apparent in DAF, and it works to a tee I think.
    I thoroughly enjoy this film. It is easily my favourite of all the Connery films, and thus of the whole series, as I rank the Connery films 1-6 as the best of the lot, followed by OHMSS.
    Hamilton's camp-danger touch, Barry's awesome score, Sean's relaxed but deadly performance, Tom Mank's very smart dialogue, Bassy's epic opening number,numerous benign bizarre elements,colour excitement, danger, humour. It's all there.
    A hugely entertaining film. Saw it again a couple of years ago at a TIFF high-def Bond festival. Real crowd pleaser. Audience actually applauded when it was done,as they did at end of TB too.
    Best camp-danger film ever made IMO.
  • DariusDarius UK
    Posts: 354
    I will stick my neck out here and guess that many of the disparaging view of DAF are from people that saw the movie for the first time many, or at least several, years after its official release. When seeing any movie (or reading any book) belonging to a franchise or sequence that has subsequent issues, then it is easy to see said medium in a poor light.

    I first saw DAF in my early teens when it first came out in 1971. At the time, I bought a full colour brochure (which, to my shame, I have subsequently lost) and unfortunately, I was too young to have one of the famous vodka martinis that were being served in the cinema lobby.

    The movie quite literally crashed into being and we were all enthralled right until the end. The first exciting movie car chase had only just been invented in the movie Bullitt and DAF seemed determined not to disappoint on this front, and disappoint, it most certainly did not. Throughout the Las Vegas chase scene, we were all (young and old alike) rapt and on the very edge of our seats. Blofeld in drag seemed quite a natural thing at the time because everyone was au fait with Howard Hughes' (an analogue of Willard Whyte aka Blofeld) habit of leaving his hotels in drag to avoid publicity. This was current knowledge then, but today it's history.

    We all left the movie theatre much shaken and stirred because everything was then cutting edge and we hadn't seen anything like it before. This is why DAF, for me, will always be special in spite of its shortcomings as seen from the so called elevated perspectives of today, where we can dissect movies frame by frame whenever we want, sniggering at the seeming ineptitudes of a more primitive society. Don't forget, though, that DAF was exactly what audiences wanted in 1971 in much the same way that CR was what audiences wanted in 06.

    OHMSS is one of my favourite Bond movies and it's sad that the sequel planned for it didn't feature the same actor to play Bond, but that didn't matter. My greatest niggle though, is that the "revenge" plot easily lost momentum and yielded to a more formulaic approach. This, I think, was a missed opportunity to take Bond into uncharted waters, that clearly Eon felt was just not worth the risk.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 25
    <3
  • Posts: 1,009
    First of all, I love both films, but when I started watching Bond, as a teenager, my fav movie was DAF, and OHMSS was the bottom one. Eventually, as I grew into an adult, OHMSS went from the bottom to the top five... However, DAF is a guilty pleasure of mine: It's what CR'67 could have been if it sticked to only one director: just a wild ride. As a result, they are BOTH in my Top-5 (1- LTK, 2- SF, 3- DAF, 4- OHMSS, 5- TMWTGG. As you can see, I have a think for campy movies and rough action films).

    My POV is that after the audiences' response to the ending of OHMSS, EON simply applied Karl Marx's formula: "First as tragedy, then as farce". Honestly, I think that with Lazenby, DAF would have followed a similar premise to the film we now know, just that IMHO it would have started with Tracy's death, some violent revenge scenes and a slow but steady turn to slapstick comedy that would have reach its summit with that bizarre boat chase and, again, a serious and violent climax in those salt mines.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Las Vegas expects every man to do their duty
  • Posts: 1,009
    Las Vegas expects every man to do their duty

    I wish there was at least a storyboard of that brilliantly crazy scene.
  • OnlyManWhoCanOnlyManWhoCan Greater London
    Posts: 202
    This is a wonderful discussion about hindsight, isn't it? I think we can all agree that OHMSS is the better film but I am sure if we had been in Broccoli and Saltzman's shoes we would have done the same!
  • DariusDarius UK
    Posts: 354
    This is a wonderful discussion about hindsight, isn't it? I think we can all agree that OHMSS is the better film but I am sure if we had been in Broccoli and Saltzman's shoes we would have done the same!

    Exactly my point. DAF was a movie for its time. It may look a bit quaint and twee now, but back then it was a movie to assuage even the most vivid of imaginations. With Apollo 14, the space race had been re-energised (by Apollo 13), so we wanted space. The car chase was still a nascent film spectacle, so we got that too. Vegas was everyone's dream destination, so everyone went there. The Vietnam War was at its height, and many Americans needed a US-based adventure to escape into -- box ticked.

    Film producers, both then and now, have to give the public what they want.

    (I think that a character we all know well said something like that somewhere.) ;)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Clint Eastwood was one of those offered the part after Connery left. Imagine him in a revenge-driven sequel.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Clint Eastwood was one of those offered the part after Connery left. Imagine him in a revenge-driven sequel.

    I believe Clint Eastwood would have been the only American that would have succeeded as Bond.
    Having said this we can probably be thankful he didn't do it, because his successor probably would have been James Brolin.
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