SPECTRE - Press reviews and personal reviews (BEWARE! Spoiler reviews allowed)

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  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    I know many of you guys dont care about how the outside World is receiving SP but the forum on the Guardian makes interesting reading IMHO:
    http://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2015/oct/27/spectre-james-bond-villains-women-ending-sam-mendes

    I just see a mix of the usual. Some people calling it a future classic, others wondering are they the only ones who think it's awful.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I think Bond25 will be a lot darker, Blofeld will be out for revenge !
    after all Bond destroyed his pussy. :D
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    RC7 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    I know many of you guys dont care about how the outside World is receiving SP but the forum on the Guardian makes interesting reading IMHO:
    http://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2015/oct/27/spectre-james-bond-villains-women-ending-sam-mendes

    I just see a mix of the usual. Some people calling it a future classic, others wondering are they the only ones who think it's awful.

    Bond films always get mixed responses from the general public, yet they will always turn out. Bond is like a magnet.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    NicNac wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    I know many of you guys dont care about how the outside World is receiving SP but the forum on the Guardian makes interesting reading IMHO:
    http://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2015/oct/27/spectre-james-bond-villains-women-ending-sam-mendes

    I just see a mix of the usual. Some people calling it a future classic, others wondering are they the only ones who think it's awful.

    Bond films always get mixed responses from the general public, yet they will always turn out. Bond is like a magnet.

    Yep. People cannot resist.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Can't speak for the rest of the world but in Britain, I think Bond had become
    part of the culture. It comes from years of showings of Bond at Christmas
    Becoming " Family" events, like big sporting occasions. :)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    DrGorner wrote: »
    Can't speak for the rest of the world but in Britain, I think Bond had become
    part of the culture. It comes from years of showings of Bond at Christmas
    Becoming " Family" events, like big sporting occasions. :)

    Very true. I imagine lots of families will be going over this week's half term. What better way to spend your week's break than in the cinema with family checking out a new Bond.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Having digested more of the story, one of the things I really liked was the handling of the Oberhauser/ESB reveal.

    If it had not been well written (or acted by Waltz for that matter) it could have been absolutely awful.
    (just as John Harrison/Khan in Star Trek was terrible.)
    .
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Having digested more of the story, one of the things I really liked was the handling of the Oberhauser/ESB reveal.

    If it had not been well written (or acted by Waltz for that matter) it could have been absolutely awful.
    (just as John Harrison/Khan in Star Trek was terrible.)
    .

    Yes, it could have been awful. I'm astonished how well it was handled actually.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 6,396
    RC7 wrote: »
    Having digested more of the story, one of the things I really liked was the handling of the Oberhauser/ESB reveal.

    If it had not been well written (or acted by Waltz for that matter) it could have been absolutely awful.
    (just as John Harrison/Khan in Star Trek was terrible.)
    .

    Yes, it could have been awful. I'm astonished how well it was handled actually.

    When you say it out loud, you could easily have thought: "Really? REALLY????". But no, it's a actually a great moment in the story.

    And so what if it's taking liberties with the character. In the novels, Dr No wasn't a member of SPECTRE, Goldfinger was a SMERSH operative and Major Dexter Smythe didn't have a daughter named Octopussy so it's hardly new for a Bond writer(s) to alter facets of a character.
  • I preferred it to Skyfall, although I can say that of most bonds. I think it was quite a mixed bag. The pts was good although they overdid the helicopter fight and it was too cartoonish. Made you wonder whether it was worth bond putting his life in such peril when he had already averted the bomb plot.

    I liked the spectre meeting and the introduction of Hinx. Moneypenny and Q were much improved from Skyfall.

    Would have liked a more serious car chase and the ending to the plane chase was too contrived and unsatisfying.

    Loved the train fight, the film did well at portraying the strength and brutality of Hinx, and a nice last word from him.

    I thought Lea Seydoux did well, although as others have mentioned their relationship could have done with more development.

    I was very disappointed that Blofeld had a personal connection with Bond. Why can't he just be a criminal mastermind. I think Savalas's portrayal has been the best due to his believability. Also, the torture scene didn't really work because it had no impact on Bond.
    I liked the watch escape, I've always liked the exploding pen from goldeneye.
    Although why was his headquarters so combustible (I'm sure that's not the right word)?

    I didn't have a problem with the mass surveillance plot, and I liked the scenes with M and C.

    I thought the end was unnecessary (do we really need another collapsing/exploding building?) and again Blofeld too comic book with the pictures of bonds former adversaries.

    I think Blofeld crawling symbolised his patheticness with his daddy issues. I fundamentally disagree with the script writers taking him in this direction.

    This makes it sound like I didn't enjoy the film. On the contrary many scenes made me smile and I thought there were many good parts.

    Verdict: 3.5/5.
  • Posts: 6,396
    I preferred it to Skyfall, although I can say that of most bonds. I think it was quite a mixed bag. The pts was good although they overdid the helicopter fight and it was too cartoonish. Made you wonder whether it was worth bond putting his life in such peril when he had already averted the bomb plot.

    I liked the spectre meeting and the introduction of Hinx. Moneypenny and Q were much improved from Skyfall.

    Would have liked a more serious car chase and the ending to the plane chase was too contrived and unsatisfying.

    Loved the train fight, the film did well at portraying the strength and brutality of Hinx, and a nice last word from him.

    I thought Lea Seydoux did well, although as others have mentioned their relationship could have done with more development.

    I was very disappointed that Blofeld had a personal connection with Bond. Why can't he just be a criminal mastermind. I think Savalas's portrayal has been the best due to his believability. Also, the torture scene didn't really work because it had no impact on Bond.
    I liked the watch escape, I've always liked the exploding pen from goldeneye.
    Although why was his headquarters so combustible (I'm sure that's not the right word)?

    I didn't have a problem with the mass surveillance plot, and I liked the scenes with M and C.

    I thought the end was unnecessary (do we really need another collapsing/exploding building?) and again Blofeld too comic book with the pictures of bonds former adversaries.

    I think Blofeld crawling symbolised his patheticness with his daddy issues. I fundamentally disagree with the script writers taking him in this direction.

    This makes it sound like I didn't enjoy the film. On the contrary many scenes made me smile and I thought there were many good parts.

    Verdict: 3.5/5.

    The bomb was a secondary consideration. Bond's primary objective was to kill Sciarra and attend his funeral in Rome as requested by M in her posthumous message to him.

  • The bomb was a secondary consideration. Bond's primary objective was to kill Sciarra and attend his funeral in Rome as requested by M in her posthumous message to him.

    Ah, thanks. So M knew about Spectre? Wasn't there a more direct way of getting Bond to investigate than killing Sciarra and then getting info from Monica?

    Apologies if I've missed something else there.

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512

    The bomb was a secondary consideration. Bond's primary objective was to kill Sciarra and attend his funeral in Rome as requested by M in her posthumous message to him.

    Ah, thanks. So M knew about Spectre? Wasn't there a more direct way of getting Bond to investigate than killing Sciarra and then getting info from Monica?

    Apologies if I've missed something else there.

    She clearly knew of an organisation and the route in was via Sciarra. 'M' suggesting Bond visit the funeral was because she'd assume his associates would show, as they did (ESB included). The fact Bond chose to glean the necessary info from Lucia is because he's a dirty dog.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Sorry if this is a stupid question but why did M keep the info to herself, record the DVD, knowing that the matter would only be dealt with after her death and give time for the target to do more bad stuff? why not deal with the matter whilst she was alive?
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Please please Sam Mendes go back and add the 20 mins of film that you cut from this film in order to secure a 12a certificate due to the torture scene. Bellucci sex scene cut down to seconds. Bond and Hinx fight on the train felt cut. I want 15a directors cut on Blueray.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    Sorry if this is a stupid question but why did M keep the info to herself, record the DVD, knowing that the matter would only be dealt with after her death and give time for the target to do more bad stuff? why not deal with the matter whilst she was alive?

    Because for the second half of SF, Bond was the only person she trusted.
  • Please please Sam Mendes go back and add the 20 mins of film that you cut from this film in order to secure a 12a certificate due to the torture scene. Bellucci sex scene cut down to seconds. Bond and Hinx fight on the train felt cut. I want 15a directors cut on Blueray.

    I think all bonds films should be allowed to be edited to a 15a for the cinema. Under 15's would just make their parents take them so I don't think the profits would take a significant hit.

  • edited October 2015 Posts: 4,617
    that's an explanation for telling Bond and nobody else, does not explain why she kept the info from Bond until after her death, (the real explanation is that the script writers were not planning ahead so the DVD is a tool they use to back track and reference a previous time period but a tool that raises questions),
  • patb wrote: »
    thats an explanation for telling Bond and nobody else, does not explain why she kept the info from Bond until after her death

    Maybe she thought he had enough on his plate with Silva

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    that's an explanation for telling Bond and nobody else, does not explain why she kept the info from Bond until after her death, (the real explanation is that the script writers were not planning ahead so the DVD is a tool they use to back track and reference a previous time period but a tool that raises questions),

    Yeah, it's called retconning and it works absolutely fine.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 4,617
    It only works IMHO if you can explain the character's motivation for their behavior and we have yet to identify that. Could M have passed a USB stick to Bond as she died? Something she had just received and needed to pass on
    "Bond, a present for you", that give the writers no end of options later in terms of what was on the stick (CCTV, plans, etc) and two years to work it into the plot.
    Only Kincade would have possibly seen it so Moneypenny's line "You've got a secret " is still OK
    or , (sorry on a roll) M knew she was injured in the church so passed the USB stick to Kincade as she did not know if Bond had survived. At the start of Spectre, Kincade arrives at Bond's flat (hes a great character IMHO) and passes the stick back to Bond.
  • Posts: 11,189
    One thing I did find slightly surreal was the sight of Bond sitting complete with his old-school shoulder holster next to a modern TV.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    It only works IMHO if you can explain the character's motivation for their behavior and we have yet to identify that. Could M have passed a USB stick to Bond as she died? Something she had just received and needed to pass on
    "Bond, a present for you", that give the writers no end of options later in terms of what was on the stick (CCTV, plans, etc) and two years to work it into the plot.

    What on earth are you talking about? They had no idea this would be the route they'd take when the produced SF. Hence why it is regarded as a retcon.
  • SuperheroSithSuperheroSith SE London
    Posts: 578
    So, seen it twice now and my thoughts, which contain spoilers.

    The gunbarrel is at the beginning again! Shame it's a merely ok gunbarrel. They nailed the look of the gunbarrel, but the whole "THE DEAD WILL RISE" thing kinda ruins it for me. Anyway, the pre title sequence in Mexico is one of the best of the whole series. It has that awesome classic feel, and it feels kinda inspired by Birdman in the whole one-take thing. That one take is awesome though.

    The credits are probably the worst that Kleinman has done, but it's still in my top 10. I love the octopus wrapping around Bond and the girl, and I love how the board meeting fades into the eyes of Oberhauser, and the SPECTRE ring, but the weird shots of the naked women rubbing Daniel Craig are weird. Also, did anyone feel that the octopus on fire thing looked kinda like the Rob Zombie Halloween poster? While I'm here, I'll talk about the song Writing's On The Wall by Sam Smith. I'm in the minority that actually like it! I thought that the instrumentation was brilliant and that, while Sam uses the falsetto way too much, he has a great falsetto.

    Anyway, back to the film. The MI6 regular's are all great. Q, Moneypenny and Tanner are great as usual. M's a bit of a prat, but towards the end he becomes more likable and badass. His enemy C is one of the best things about the film for me. Andrew Scott of Sherlock fame is brilliant in the role, and the character is the best villain in the film, with a realistic and believable scheme. Speaking of the villains, Mr. Hinx is really cool and badass. I love his introduction where he rips out a man's eyes with his steel thumbnails. He also wields a double barreled pistol which is one of the coolest weapons EVER!

    And then there's Franz Oberhauser. I mean Ernst Stavro Blofeld. Christoph Waltz does brilliantly portraying him. He is a mean guy. However, I feel that he is the main reason why I didn't like this film as much as I hoped. I feel that his presence in the Bondiverse kinda diminishes the threat value of the other Craig villains. Sure, Greene was terrible, and Le Chiffre wasn't very menacing, but Silva is my favourite villain of the whole series, and saying that his scheme was orchestrated by an organization he was a part of kinda ruins him a bit. Also, I could buy that Franz Oberhauser is Bond's half brother, but Blofeld? Really? You expect me to buy that Blofeld, James Bond's arch nemesis, is actually Bond's half brother? That's a twist straight out of Austin Powers, literally? Was I the only one having Goldmember flashbacks during that part?

    Moving on to the Bond girls, Monica Bellucci as Lucia Sciarra is great and hot, but in it for way too short of a time for her to leave any lasting impact. Lea Seydoux as Madeline Swann is a highlight of the film, and her performance is great. I personally think that she's one of the hottest Bond girls yet! However, I hope she doesn't become the Tracy/Vesper Bond girl that Craig falls in love with for two reasons. One: this is the second time out of four that Craig's Bond has fallen in love with a woman. Two: I just don't think the character could do any more outside of this film. She's served her purpose, now ditch her and move on! I know that sounds really sexist, but I just think that, from a story perspective, she wouldn't fit.

    Speaking of the story, what was Oberhauser's plot again? I really can't remember what his overall ambition was. Was it just to ruin Bond's life? That's lame. All of the other Blofeld's have an end game, a way to profit. Seriously, can someone inform me? Was there something I missed? Maybe a piece of throwaway dialogue? I don't know the plan! Anyway, I love love LOVE the ending scene of the film, with the MI6 Regulars taking on C, and Bond taking on Blofeld and rescuing Madeline. However, what I don't like is Bond and Madeline driving off romantically into the sunset because of points already illustrated in the above paragraph.

    Finally, there's Daniel Craig as Bond. He's amazing. He gives the best performance of his career here, in my opinion. He comes off like a classic Sean Connery in this role. In CR and QOS, he gives a brilliant performance. In Skyfall, he's even better. And in SPECTRE, he's at his best. I love this actor. He rivals Timothy Dalton as my favourite Bond now.

    So, overall, SPECTRE is a great film with a couple of major problems, those mostly coming from the script, and having to do with character flaws. The characters are great, whereas the main villain and bond girl are really a mixed bag. Madeline Swann's greatness all depends on whether she'll show up in the next film, whereas they kinda ruined Blofeld by giving him an origin story. However, the good really outweighs the bad. I would place it at #10 in my Bond film ranking.

    Overall I give SPECTRE a 9/10.

    If I had to sum it up in a sentence I'd say: A brilliant classic Bond adventure with a couple of flaws to average it out.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Never found M to be a prats he was as he should be. Authoritative and scolding Bond as and when necessary.

    Also, I loved the classic headmaster/schoolboy doalogue they shared. It was great seeing Bond respond with his "yes, sir" and "very good, sir".
  • Posts: 6,396
    I also like the relationship Bond and M share in this film. At the start, Bond shows signs of contempt for the new M (probably due to not fully accepting Mallory in the position) but by the end there's definitely a mutual bond between them (no pun intended). :)
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Bring back the mouse! That was a brilliant moment for me "Who are you working for?"
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Bring back the mouse! That was a brilliant moment for me "Who are you working for?"

    Yeah, brilliant. That's how you self reference.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Don't see how Bond and Oppie are half brothers if they don't have the same parents or one of the same parents unlike Austin Powers who did share parents.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Don't see how Bond and Oppie are half brothers if they don't have the same parents or one of the same parents unlike Austin Powers who did share parents.

    The term 'brother' is used in a similar manner to 'mother' in SF. It's sort of symbolic, despite the childhood connection. I think they handle it well. There's only one line in there I'd scrap, but even that is just a barbed line from ESB to Bond.
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