Best/Worst Bond Score

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2015 Posts: 8,180
    No thanks on Giacchino. He's the American version of David Arnold, although he actually is popular, strangely.

    I'd nominate Alberto Iglesias, Howard Shore, and Joe Kraemer as they all have a distinctive voice.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    @bondjames I think you're confusing Techno with Drum and Bass. Those tracks from DAD and TWINE feature a heavy use of drums yes but the main theme itself is all traditional orchestra. I don't mind drum and bass but nothing in those tracks was remotely techno.

    Thanks for the clarification @Murdock. That's probably what it is then. I just find an excess of that sort of sound in Arnold's action scores. That's what I mean about a lack of finesse and delicate harmony in his scores (I'm not remotely musically trained so don't know how to describe what I'm feeling but I know what I like). I just find it extremely noisy and overbearing.....although I do hear the Bond theme in there. It just sounds like nightclub music to me.....bad nightclub music. Sometimes he does that turntable scratching thing too.

    I much prefer the way Newman weaved the Bond theme into Los Muertos Vivos Estan. There is a lot more 'class' for lack of a better word in the way he did it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    bondjames wrote: »
    I much prefer the way Newman weaved the Bond theme into Los Muertos Vivos Estan. There is a lot more 'class' for lack of a better word in the way he did it.

    That's the one track of Spectre's score I love the most. But you can't really compare it to those specific Arnold examples I listed as Those were action oriented where Los Muertos is Bond (presumably as I haven't seen the film.) in "Sneaking Mode." I suppose the closet comparison I can think of that thematically comes close to Los Muertos is "Wheelchair Access"
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I much prefer the way Newman weaved the Bond theme into Los Muertos Vivos Estan. There is a lot more 'class' for lack of a better word in the way he did it.

    That's the one track of Spectre's score I love the most. But you can't really compare it to those specific Arnold examples I listed as Those were action oriented where Los Muertos is Bond (presumably as I haven't seen the film.) in "Sneaking Mode." I suppose the closet comparison I can think of that thematically comes close to Los Muertos is "Wheelchair Access"

    This is true.

    Even with this last clip you posted though, there is this sort of electronic sound (like it's been done on a keyboard) pervading it that I'm not too keen on. People blast Serra for that, but Arnold was just as guilty imho.

    I thought Arnold's action scoring on QoS/CR was a huge improvement on his earlier work (especially Time to Get Out and African Rundown). However, I quite like Newman's action scoring as well (it's lighter in feel/sound, but has a certain quality to it). As mentioned, I really like Westminster Bridge from SP, as well as Backfire.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,180
    Arnold definitely leaned on electronics as his run went. TND is probably his most old fashioned, with only certain cues utilizing synthesized music. You can tell just from the gun barrel. TND's is mostly old fashioned. TWINE injected electronics, and then DAD made use of drum machines.

    My favorite Arnold stuff is when he tried to go outside the John Barry box like with "Hamburg Break In" when Bond is searching through the office. Maybe the closest he got to something like "Gumbold".

    This is a track from his "Shaken and Stirred" compilation, which was made before he hired to do TND. The whole approach is about taking the Bond sound and radically updating it for the 90s. I wish he expanded more on that instead deciding to approach TND with what he described as "one foot in the 60s, the other in the 90s". He claims to love Serra's score, so he definitely could go outside the box. For whatever reason, maybe because of EON, he mostly stuck to the Barry sound instead of reinventing the Bond sound.




    Sure, it's not traditional and only has faint references to the old sound, but man it is just plain cool, and that to me is Bond. It would take Newman to later come in and reinvent it with tracks like "Shanghai Drive" that get my juices flowing.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited October 2015 Posts: 16,351
    bondjames wrote: »
    This is true.

    Even with this last clip you posted though, there is this sort of electronic sound (like it's been done on a keyboard) pervading it that I'm not too keen on. People blast Serra for that, but Arnold was just as guilty imho.

    I thought Arnold's action scoring on QoS/CR was a huge improvement on his earlier work (especially Time to Get Out and African Rundown). However, I quite like Newman's action scoring as well (it's lighter in feel/sound, but has a certain quality to it). As mentioned, I really like Westminster Bridge from SP, as well as Backfire.

    Yeah Drum and Bass is lightly used in Wheelchair access. It's hard to describe Serra's score. It's not really techno but it uses electronic elements. I'm not knowledgeable of musical terms either. Newman's just too subtle and restricted for my tastes. Most of the score is simple Ambiance and not enough Bond theme. Backfire is growing on me slowly, I still think it starts off noisily but it gets better as it progresses. I don't know, I just feel it would be better with more "Bond theme." Not too much but just a little more spread out throughout the score. There's just so little of it that it leaves so much more to be desired.

    And @MakeshiftPython you make a great analogy about Arnold being a mix of 60's and 90's. I think that's what he was intentionally going for and I appreciate it. While it's a bit dated in the 2010's I can still enjoy it. Modern Film scoring in general has been going for this minimalist orchestral style that's heavy on repetitious violins or Bass but without a memorable theme. It just doesn't suit Bond's world for me. It lacks...punch for lack of a better word.

    I didn't like Shanghai Drive though. It was just a bunch of beeps to me with a gong being tapped every now and then. It's not "bad" but just doesn't do it for me.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,180
    Not even that bass groove with the strings swelling as it goes further? Different strokes.

    And yeah, that analogy is a direct quote from Arnold when asked about how he approached it back in 1997. Something that disappointed me about CR and QOS is that he promised that it would be very different from the Brosnan scores. However, they sound the same as his first three, only with less electronics and less use of the Bond theme. It's not a significant difference beyond those two aspects. I think QOS is his best overall because Forster actually had Arnold use the script as the basis for scenes which likely resulted in that more ambient sound in places like when Bond is drinking his martinis. It's a reprise of the Vesper theme, but it feels more haunting, like Bond has this ghost that's watching over his shoulder. I always thought the Vesper theme was misused in CR because there were not enough variations on it to give it that depth and it gave away too much. It sounds tragic when it shouldn't. That was the genius of Barry when using "We Have All the Time in the World". He had many different takes on that theme from the more jazz influenced take at the casino, the romantic take, and then the very sad and tragic take heard at the end. Arnold should have done something like this with Vesper's theme, a smooth jazz rendition when she and Bond are bantering. There really should have been something during the dinner scene before her fake kidnapping too. So when the theme comes back in QOS and he gives it a different vibe on each occasion, it's refreshing.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,583
    This is tough to say, because best/worst is based on what? Some of John Barry's work was great, but he wasn't asked to write much music. Arnold and Newman, on the other hand, had about 15-20 different, unique pieces to compose for later Bond films. Their task was a little harder.

    I'm more inclined to give you my top 10 Bond (non theme song instrumental) tracks:

    1. OHMSS theme (Barry)
    2. Night at the Opera (Arnold)
    3. 007 and Counting (Barry)
    4. Corinne (Barry)
    5. Someone Usually Dies (Newman)
    6. Golden Girl (Barry)
    7. Snow Job (Barry)
    8. Chase Bomb (Barry)
    9. Capsule in Space (Barry)
    10. Severine (Newman)
  • Posts: 5,990
    The worst is easy for me : NSNA. Who thought that it would be a good idea to put Michel Legrand in charge of the music should be hung, drawn and quartered. I mean, Legrand was fine for romantic movies, but very, very wrong for Bond.

    Second Worst : DN. Yes, I know, it has the Bond Theme. But its overuse, combined with a score that doesn't quite fit (and which wasn't released, except for one track - "The Island Speaks") kinda spoils the movie for me. And let's not mention the killing of the Tarentula one note at a time although just did). That doesn't fail to elicit mocking laughter from the audience.

    Third : GE. What is it with french composers and Bond, anyway ?

    Best : OHMSS, of course. Well, most anything Barry has written, really, but that one stands out.

    Best non-Barry : LALD. George Martin certainly did a great job.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    Best: TLD, OHMSS, MR, FYEO (there have been some good ones. These are the ones I hum the most after I've watched the movie)
    Worst: GE (was there even music?)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Gerard wrote: »
    The worst is easy for me : NSNA. Who thought that it would be a good idea to put Michel Legrand in charge of the music should be hung, drawn and quartered.

    Sean Connery. :)) He recommended him.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Murdock wrote: »
    Gerard wrote: »
    The worst is easy for me : NSNA. Who thought that it would be a good idea to put Michel Legrand in charge of the music should be hung, drawn and quartered.

    Sean Connery. :)) He recommended him.


    His aim was obviously to sabotage the film while earning some extra cash. ;)
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Ah, yes, Snow Job. I just heard it, and it sounds fantastic. Also loved the Palace Battle theme from Octopussy and something else from that film, but I can't quite put my finger on it.
  • Murdock wrote: »
    I'd rather have someone new as well. Joe Kraemer, Michael Giacchino, Sean Callery have all proven themeselves worthy in my book.

    I agree a new composer would be preferable to a third Newman score. I don't much care who it is, but it should definitely be a composer who can pen a decent pop song - as both Barry and Arnold could - to be used as the main title of the film and the thematic base for the score. This is what Barry did with great success and what Arnold did in his best Bond efforts. The composer (co-)writes the song for (or in collaboration with) a performing artist - this is how it should be. No more songs by popular names just tacked onto the score.

  • nunoloulenunoloule Portugal
    Posts: 4
    Best soundtrack: From Russia with Love
    Worst soundtrack: Spectre
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Best TLD
    Worst SF
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Best - OHMSS
    Worst - GE
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Worst: SF/SP
    Best: Barry
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited November 2015 Posts: 7,108
    I like all Bond scores with the exception of Dr. No, The World Is Not Enough and Die Another Day.

    Dr. No has no soundtrack, it's one of the things that pulls it down in my rankings. The latter Brosnan films have a few fine tracks but it has way too much generic action noise.

    I'd say my top 007 favourite scores have to be:

    - On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    - The Living Daylights
    - Thunderball
    - A View to a Kill
    - GoldenEye
    - Tomorrow Never Dies
    - Licence to Kill

    The first four are John Barry masterpieces, the other three are different but I like them for it.

    I'm a big fan of Eric Serra's work for Luc Besson. In GE he provides the film with a post industrial sound that fits the movie perfectly.

    David Arnold's TND is his best work for the series in my mind, a lot of distuingishable tracks like the one when they fly into Saigon.

    While LTK album isn't very well put together, Michael Kamen's Caribbean motifs work well with the movie and his rendition of the Bond theme is one of the best.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    The TWINE score had hugely techno/action-oriented music, but it was energetic, powerful, and lively. It was good, IMO, whereas DAD had too much techno (which didn't even sound good) in the music, and the Bond theme in TND was just a little too low for me. I don't know why it works in You Only Live Twice, but it doesn't in TND.

    Craig's films don't really have the best scores, IMO. There's definitely some good songs in them but overall, they fall flat. And I agree that the excessive techno beats and eccentric tunes of GoldenEye aren't very good.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Best: TB/ TLD.
    Worst: GE.
  • Posts: 1,098
    Gerard wrote: »
    The worst is easy for me : NSNA. Who thought that it would be a good idea to put Michel Legrand in charge of the music should be hung, drawn and quartered. I mean, Legrand was fine for romantic movies, but very, very wrong for Bond.

    Second Worst : DN. Yes, I know, it has the Bond Theme. But its overuse, combined with a score that doesn't quite fit (and which wasn't released, except for one track - "The Island Speaks") kinda spoils the movie for me. And let's not mention the killing of the Tarentula one note at a time although just did). That doesn't fail to elicit mocking laughter from the audience.

    Third : GE. What is it with french composers and Bond, anyway ?

    Best : OHMSS, of course. Well, most anything Barry has written, really, but that one stands out.

    Best non-Barry : LALD. George Martin certainly did a great job.

    I agree.

    From what i've read it was actually Sean Connery that wanted Michel Legrand to compose the music for NSNA.
    Apparently, the producer wanted to hire James Horner.....he of Aliens fame, amongst his many great scores, his music would of certainly been more in touch with the Bond world, and giving the film a dynamic feel. Would of no doubt helped the BO of the film as well.

    I've always reckoned that the music score for NSNA, is probably one of the worst scores ever composed for a major film.

    In fact it was so bad, that a few years later the producer tinkled with the idea of having the film re-released with a new soundtrack.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Best: OHMSS (runner-ups; FRWL and GF)

    Worst: NSNA ( runner-ups; FYEO and DAD)
  • Posts: 2,341
    Best OHMSS
    Worst; GE

    I must add that there was a real drop off following OHMSS. Barry did not seem like himself after that "high water mark" there were some bright moments like AVTAK but for the most part the scores have paled following the likes of GF, TB, YOLT, and OHMSS
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    TLD is brilliant.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I saw TLD again yesterday and the score was even better than I remembered.

    Personally though I still think Barry's best score of all is MR.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Agreed with the two above on TLD. Fantastic work from Barry.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    For me, strictly for Barry, TLD & OHMSS are exceptional (amazing that they are 18 years apart), with TB, MR & YOLT coming close behind.

    I also like FRWL (very spy like and sinister), TMWTGG (quirky, like the film) and DAF (again quirky with some really memorable motifs based on the title song).
  • JNOJNO Finland
    Posts: 137
    Best: OHMSS. Barry on top form. Classic, beautiful, thrilling, a true masterpiece. Pure Bond.

    Worst: DAD. Utter shit like the film.

    Honorable mentions: DAF, LALD, TSWLM (Bond ´77!), FYEO, TLD.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Best: OHMSS
    Worst: DN

    Is this thread even a thing?
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