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http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/541536/#Comment_541536
The rest of your thoughts are also excellent. We really should have had the rumoured dinner scene (there is a sketch of the proposed set somewhere on these boards). I think Waltz as an actor would have come off better recounting his motivations in a more formal and refined setting such as that, rather than in the control room and torture chamber that we got.
Thanks! I had come up with the impersonation theory a while back, and was disappointed I wasn't right.
It also fits with Franz's face in the old photograph being burned off- it's intentionally ominous, but it helps that Bond has no picture of him; he could very well forget exactly what his childhood friend looked like.
That, and it would turn the whole "personal" angle on its head- instead of the mission actually being personal, it would be a tool to trick Bond (something that hasn't really been used before in the Bond series).
Very interesting theory about the fake Oberhauser. I think it would make Blofeld much more menacing, and it would eliminate the 'frustrated teenager' angle.
It would still be possible as a twist in Bond 25 if there weren't for that 'cuckoo' story and the photo of young Christoph Waltz.
This is another unsatisfying element of the hamfisted Oberhauser third act.
Bond says 'That's a face I'll never forget' as if there is some massive revelation coming later about Bond and Oberhauser's past. But it never arrives. Franz seems to have the major arse that Bond took his father's affection but Bond doesn't appear to give the slightest toss about it all.
More annoyingly he takes the death of Hannes with barely a shrug yet the literary Bond makes it his mission to hunt down Major Smythe because Oberhauser meant so much to him.
I think Franz Oberhauser in his own right could have been a passable villain if the personal angle they had concentrated on was just Bond wanting to bring to justice the killer of Hannes when he realises Franz is alive and topped his father. Isn't that enough? Franz is a SPECTRE agent who is at Largo's level and apart from the Nine Eyes thing Bond also has reason to go after him as revenge for Hannes.
But tying the whole of the Craig era together and also have Franz being Blofeld would be a very tough act for a superlative screenwriter so was clearly way beyond the journeyman talents of P&W and busted flush Logan.
Why couldn't we have had Franz as the main villain and save Blofeld for a final scene reveal to set us up for Bond 25? But no, like a kid in a sweet shop they couldn't excericse any restraint and blew their whole Blofeld/SPECTRE wad in one go.
Were they scared the corpse of McClory might reanimate so they wanted to get it all done with while they had the chance?
The look on Bonds face when he sees Oberhauser at Sciarras funeral is telling, even more when he is called out at the Spectre meeting he appears scared. The closeup on Bonds face when he holds Madelines hand in the Silver Wraith you can see he is nervous.
Bond cared about Hannes, in the torture chair he seemed upset Oberhauser had killed him.
No it's not, because he only sees him from behind and he doesn't know who he is. Waltz turns his head slightly, but not enough that you could recognize someone you haven't seen in 30 years and last saw when you were 13.
There are a lot of very good suggestions and improvements here on this thread, had a really fun time reading them =)
For me, I would not have made Waltz Blofeld, but rather as Bond's adoptive brother (nothing changed here) who is simply a member of SPECTRE. Well there are some perks of the brotherly angle, such as breaking away from the norm of generic evil villains, making Bond's hunt more personal, and making for more dramatic exchanges. But Bond's brother as the iconic infamous Blofeld? Probably too much of a stretch.
I would have made C the head of SPECTRE, and then reveal that his name is NOT Blofeld, and his death at the end of SP would make way for the real Blofeld (who is not Waltz) to take the throne. A prequel to the Blofeld-in-charge that we all know in a sense. Scott makes for a great villain material too. In this way SP would set up the SPECTRE leadership that we all know now, while also having a decent twist at the end too.
I didn't say he didn't look scared at any point.
I am saying in the third act Bond reacts no differently to Oberhauser than he does to Dr No who he had no connection to.
Hannes Oberhauser is dealt with as quickly as the 'ring connecting everyone in SPECTRE' scene. Bond states you 'killed him didn't you?' Franz says 'yes I did.'
And that's Hannes done with. Never mentioned again.
Given the whole point of the exercise is for Mendes to send Bond on a 'journey' you would have thought they would have taken the opportunity to lift the 'Hannes Oberhauser was something of a father to me when I needed one' speech straight from the book at the very least?
But despite it being apparently vital that there is a personal angle to the story these days once Bond leaves the torture chair all he thinks about is Nine Eyes.
Funny, I suspected Blofeld would indeed reveal that he stole Oberhauser's identity and that the latter had been dead for some time. That said, I don't think Blofeld being revealed, whatever the background, was going to be anything else than a Jekyll & Hyde/Dracula twist, so I don't see why people complain it did not come off as a surprise. Some twists are already known because of the history of the franchise and its iconic nature.
By hindsight, I ended up pretty happy with something I did not want them to do: the inclusion of the cat and the scar.
True, but I think not calling it "Spectre" in the first place would have helped. ;)
The title alone prompted so many theories from the get-go.
His look at the funeral appeared to be one of curiosity rather than fear, especially since he immediately proceeded to chat up Sciarra after that.
At the SP meeting, I saw more shock than fear, because again, he immediately proceeded to smirk at the body guard before throwing him off the ledge.
In the car, she appeared scared (only because she said it, not because of how she acted it imho) but he appeared calm and collected.
So again, this must have all been just a little too subtle for me to pick up.
"A Licence to Kill is also.....a Licence not to Kill" - Groanworthy and painfully obvious.
"Mr White.....of Course!" - Dodgy
"Now there are two James's...lucky me" - Shitty line that kills a great scene.
Also what's up with that crap scene between Bond and Swann before the finale?!? This is your life...blah blah", and Bond (who apparently loves her) emptionlessly lets her walk away. There is some real haphazard staging in that sequence.
Here are the big changes I'd make:
Oberhauser/Blofeld reveal:
This is something I've spoken about a lot on this forum, but the reveal should have been the other way round. We all knew Waltz was Blofeld from the minute he was cast, the fact he was revealed as Oberhauser was a complete waste of time. Just imagine the December press conference if Waltz was unveiled as....Blofeld! The press would have gone crazy and hype would have been deafening.
Additionally, it would make so much more sense to do the reveal the other way round. Bond would start the film hunting SPECTRE and its feared leader; Ernst Stavro Blofeld, only for it to be revealed that Blofeld is Franz Oberhauser, a figure from his past. SHOCK! HORROR! The Blofeld name means nothing to Bond in the story; it's totally superfluous and only really a nod for the fans. Mendes completely fudged the Blofeld character.
The reveal that Blofeld is Oberhauser is much more impactful and would have only involved a minor change to the script.
The torture/shoot-out:
I'm not a fan of the brain-drilling scene (I really like the card game in the December script). But if they wanted to continue using the torture scene they really needed to fix the shoot-up sequence. It feels totally tacked on and just an excuse to get Bond out of the compound and have a fucking huge explosion. Bond just had his fucking brain drilled! He should be screwed up and Madeline should be the one to pick up the gun and protect him. It would have strengthened her character as well beef up their relationship they have. Instead Madeline is a total one-dimensional damsel in distress throughout the film.
I completely agree here as well. That escape scene is a complete joke. We already were shown that Madeline can handle a gun. This was the perfect time to showcase why that scene was relevant, rather than have a Marvel type superhero escape by Bond.
What annoys me more than anything is that this is almost film making 101 we're talking about here. It's not about degrees. It's just plain obvious and I would have thought people with the experience and expertise they had on set could have improvised a little even with a poor script.
The more inspired aspects of SF were the things we hadn't seen multiple times before in a Bond film (Silva's hidden appearance, the courtroom scene, the early Kincaide scenes).
Despite its longer running time, in SP the innovations seem fewer but they are there (the White scene, Bond protecting Madeleine from Blofeld showing the White scene).
I just don't need another classic Aston Martin scene with the Bond theme blaring.
Unease too, I'd say.
I don't know. It could have been titled differently, although I wonder how much even with a different title could have been hidden: the ring, the mentions of the organization, etc. That's partially why I say it was a Jekyll& Hyde/Dracula twist. (And, spoiler alert for those who haven't read the stories, but Jekyll and Hyde are one and the same person and Count Dracula is truly a vampire).
This is so totally bang on the money I had to double check I hadn't written it myself.
Imagine how much the relationship between Bond and Madeleine would have been strengthened the point where we might believe Bond could fall in love with this girl if she had helped a helpless Bond out of there and taken out a few guards.
It would have been the equivalent of Tracy rescuing a down and out Bond at the ice rink (maybe we could even have had Bond saying 'good girl' as she gunned down the guards?) which is for me the moment that cements in Bond's mind that this girl is a keeper.
I don't remember seeing Daphne or Thelma, or come to think of it any other of the Scooby Doo gang in the film SP!
Are you sure you sure you weren't actually watching a Scooby Doo film? ;)
01) Do not reveal Blofeld but hide him in the shadows
02) Spend more time on Spectre and their evil plan like in FRWL.
03) Improve the action sequences by making them take place in a busier enviroment. (A car chase is boring if there are almost no other cars on the road.)
04) Add some interactions and dialogues with natives.
05) Give Bond some memorable Alies.
06) Reduce the number of locations and spend more time on these (location type music).
07) Set up the climax in the villain's lair in the crater and give Bond some supporters to help him destroy the lair)
08) Make Oberhauser the main Specter agent who has much more screen time.
09) Write a completely new script and change almost everything.
10) Let MS do more instead of being the damsel
11) Cut the subplot to a minimum and make it less obvious that C is working for Spectre.
12) Delete the Stepbrother story.
13) Give Mr Hinx more personality.
14) Explain why Mr. Hinx is on the train and why he fights Bond.
15) Delete the torture scene or give it at least some impact for the following scenes.
16) Let Hinx and Oberhauser be successful in a thing they are doing (in fact they are very unsusccessfull with regard to everything they try in that film).
17) Increase the role of the little mouse. Make it the main ally. Oh actually it was.
18) Chose a better composer and another title track.
19) Reduce the roles of M, Q and Moneypenny to a minimum. I prefer more interesting allies.
20) Reduce the sequences in London. We have had it in Skyfall. We don't need a second Gotham City.
In 2015 Spectre's sequel would have been made, with Waltz and Seydoux and Bellucci reprising their roles.
It just tries to do too much. So if I were to do anything, it would be to subtract superfluous elements from the film. Here are the big, large-scale changes I would have in store for the film:
- Cut the entire third act set in London and close the film at the Moroccan Crater Base (do not have Blofeld arrested, do not have Madeleine kidnapped).
- Cut out all of those references to previous films. They were unnecessary and led the film to having no real identity of its own.
- Cut out the explicit love story.
- Change the composer or at least make Newman compose something original.
- Cut out the entire Nine Eyes subplot, and hence cut out C and heavily downplay the roles of M, Q and Moneypenny.
- Maintain a more stable tone to the film. There should be a middle line. None of those car shenanigans that don't work, but at the same time none of that angst that was in that scene where Madeleine saw White kill himself. The movie should be fun, but not cringeworthy fun.
- Direct some of that action better. Specifically, car chase, snow chase and Spectre explosion scenes. You have to really feel the frenetic pace in a chase. Peter Hunt did way better in the 60s with that great car chase in OHMSS that made me jump whenever those cars slammed against each other. In those three chases, I got a bit of that towards the end of the snow chase. Car chase and Spectre shootouts were doozies.
- Cut out all of Mendes pretentions. No 'the dead are alive' ruining my precious gun barrel.
- Minimise the product placement (since cutting out all of it is apparently unrealistic).
- Get a better director and get better writers. 'Evil stepbrother'? 'Introduce villain by having him in the shadows'. 'Shoot one gas tank and an entire supervillain complex in the desert explodes'. Oh my GOD who wrote this movie?
- Only choose expensive actors for roles if you can give them a good role!