Quantum of Solace Appreciation Thread- We Found a Better Place to Meet

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  • edited February 2016 Posts: 4,325
    After over twenty films, it is unthinkable that a new Bond film should follow the DNA and template of the past. Of course Bond has one foot in its own heritage but there is nothing wrong in tweaking the henchman, altering the path of the film's romance or lack of it and not following the same over familiar beats of a Bond film. QUANTUM OF SOLACE gets a favourable time of it in CATCHING BULLETS. And always has in this Bond writer's survey of the canon.

    I don't quite understand why a lot of folk think Lea Seydoux and Madeline will return in the next movie as every Bond film more or less has ended with Bond and the leading lady floating/driving/hanging/flying/wining into the sunset as if she is the one for him.

    The reset button is always (for the most part) set in the world of Bond as soon as we are relieved to see JAMES BOND WILL RETURN.

    I think it's a bit different with Madeleine @CatchingBullets ? Bond essentially is giving up his job to be with her, a la Casino Royale with Lynd. They 'love' each other which is different - the usual ending on a dinghy as parodied by Austin Powers never gives you the feeling that Bond is in it for the long haul with that particular girl. I think it's that nature of choice between settling down or being a spy that makes it different - it parallels it with CR just as the scene on the train parallels the scene in CR where Bond and Lynd are eating before she gets kidnapped.

    Loved reading your book by the way, made me reminisce about all my first viewings of Bond films.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Bond essentially is giving up his job to be with her, a la Casino Royale with Lynd. They 'love' each other which is different - the usual ending on a dinghy as parodied by Austin Powers never gives you the feeling that Bond is in it for the long haul with that particular girl. I think it's that nature of choice between settling down or being a spy that makes it different - it parallels it with CR just as the scene on the train parallels the scene in CR where Bond and Lynd are eating before she gets kidnapped.
    This is the part that I can't relate to based on 3 viewings in the theatre. He loves her? I didn't get this at all, especially after that ham fisted scene late in the film in London when she says she's leaving him (with nearly no expression on her face) and Daniel Craig proceeds to demonstrate that he can actually be wooden in a James Bond film (did he even move one part of his face when uttering "You're leaving?" and when in the car afterwards? I think even Fiennes was in shock at the acting on display, unless it was intentional, in which case again I'm lost at Mendes's aims here).

    At the end of the day, I don't think he loves her at all. She's his way out. He's running and she's providing the getaway car (figuratively of course, because Mendes had to show us that the DB5 is back and running for the finale).
    RC7 wrote: »
    I can see the logic, but I find it hard to invest in the action in this movie which is perhaps why I crave more of the good stuff. I think the car chase is excellent, but the rest is too route 1 for my taste. The plane scene in Bolivia and the boat sequence I find particularly nauseating and lacking invention, particularly next to the Tosca sequence.
    Yes, I agree the Tosca and the opening car scene are the best action sequences in the film. I found the finale a bit dull (apart from the Adam style hotel in the desert and Greene acting like a lunatic with an axe).

    One of the standout scenes for me was when Mathis was shot. It's not so much Craig's acting here that I was impressed with, but Kurylenko's. Unlike many, I found her somewhat wooden in the film, and would have preferred if they had cast a real latin actress rather than a Ukranian/Russian one with a fake tan. However, I found her especially effective in that scene, shocked at the brutality and seemingly uncaring attitude of her 'horribly efficient' cohort. That and the Matthis intro scene with Jemma really impressed me, as did the final scene with Yusef (Craig's look was as menacing as they come).
  • edited February 2016 Posts: 4,325
    bondjames wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Bond essentially is giving up his job to be with her, a la Casino Royale with Lynd. They 'love' each other which is different - the usual ending on a dinghy as parodied by Austin Powers never gives you the feeling that Bond is in it for the long haul with that particular girl. I think it's that nature of choice between settling down or being a spy that makes it different - it parallels it with CR just as the scene on the train parallels the scene in CR where Bond and Lynd are eating before she gets kidnapped.
    This is the part that I can't relate to based on 3 viewings in the theatre. He loves her? I didn't get this at all, especially after that ham fisted scene late in the film in London when she says she's leaving him (with nearly no expression on her face) and Daniel Craig proceeds to demonstrate that he can actually be wooden in a James Bond film (did he even move one part of his face when uttering "You're leaving?" and when in the car afterwards. I think even Fiennes was in shock at the acting on display, unless it was intentional, in which case again I'm lost).

    At the end of the day, I don't think he loves her at all. She's his way out. He's running and she's provided the getaway car (figuratively of course, because Mendes had to show us that the DB5 is back and running for the finale).
    RC7 wrote: »
    I can see the logic, but I find it hard to invest in the action in this movie which is perhaps why I crave more of the good stuff. I think the car chase is excellent, but the rest is too route 1 for my taste. The plane scene in Bolivia and the boat sequence I find particularly nauseating and lacking invention, particularly next to the Tosca sequence.
    Yes, I agree that Tosca and the opening car scene are the best action sequences in the film. I found the finale a bit dull (apart from the Adam style hotel in the desert and Greene acting like a lunatic with an axe).

    One of the standout scenes for me is when Mathis is shot. It's not so much Craig's acting here that I was impressed with, but Kurylenko's. Unlike many, I found her somewhat wooden in the film, and would have preferred if they had cast a real latin actress rather than a Ukranian/Russian one with a fake tan. However, I found her especially effective in that scene, shocked at the brutality and seemingly uncaring attitude of her 'horribly efficient' cohort. That and the Matthis intro scene with Jemma really impress, as does the final scene with Yusef (Craig's look was as menacing as they come).

    Yes I agree he doesn't love her, that's why I put love in quotation marks. My theory is that they both want an easy excuse to not live the lives they are living. 'Falling in love' is an easy answer to that, so that they can live different lives - e.g. Bond walking away from his life as 'Her Majesty's loyal terrier' to quote Sean Bean. But of course he will return to the MI6 fold once this 'love' has ended.
    At the end of the day, I don't think he loves her at all. She's his way out. He's running and she's provided the getaway car (figuratively of course, because Mendes had to show us that the DB5 is back and running for the finale).

    These are my thoughts exactly.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    A couple of moments in QoS were CR-quality, and Mathis' death in particular was quite well done.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    edited February 2016 Posts: 1,731
    Never understood the bad rap this got. True it's not as strong as CR (no others of the DC era have been), but it's focus, kinetic energy and score are excellent imo.
    The Tosca scene where Bond gets all the conspirators to stand up and be identified is one of the great modern 007 moments.
  • OmegaXOmegaX Singapore
    Posts: 39
    Well I liked QoS...not a great film but certainly not the worst film I've seen. I will be drawing comparisons to SP as they are both similar in a sense, especially their villains.

    First I loved the chase scene at the start directly before the opening credits (the one dangling on ropes), due to its originality. Its pretty hard to come up with original and interesting yet engaging and fast-paced action scenes nowadays, and QoS succeeded in making me impressed and engaged. On the other hand, the Rome chase in SP was not that original (car chases are almost a cliche nowadays in action flicks), wasn't engaging enough (the scenes with MP ruined it a bit imo) and most of all wasn't that fast-paced (I blame the score. Backfire had a great melody but it was a little too slow-paced. I would rather have a simple melody-repeating the same note over and over again could do it too-and a very fast paced music).

    Second, since I'm onto the score, the Opera scene (especially the Night at the Opera track) was one of the best soundtrack I've heard. And thats saying something. It sets the posh mood perfectly, ominous yet not blaring loud, and its melody is simple and charming. On the other hand, SP was introduced with almost no clear melody...at least remix the Night at the Opera track and make it SP's theme! Come on Mr Newman, you could have done much more...Quantum's meeting was a gem. Original too, which I really appreciate.

    Third, I liked the plot, and the villain's plan. I'm not going to criticise SP about this, as the latter had actually done a decent job in creating a realistic plan for SP and a decent plot too. Quantum however, was much more original. Monopolizing a country's water supply? I didn't see that before. Also, it touches on a very real issue about our world today-climate change/environment.
  • I like this picture a great deal. It's saddled by being situated between two of the better entries in the series, IMHO, but I really enjoy this film, enough to make it part of my new 'tin' collection.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    @Bondjames it would have been more believable (and funnier) if Bond reacted to her "I'm leaving you" with "were we going out?" a la a classic Seinfeld scene:
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Ha ha. So true.

    @Sark, when watching that scene, I felt almost as though they were reading from cue cards during rehearsals which were then digitally edited out. The words did not match the expressions on either actor. It was as if they were just getting on with it without any passion for what they were in fact saying. I swear I noticed Fiennes looking at it in shock. Connery during the wedding scenes in YOLT seemed far more engaged than this.

    Moreover, in the space of 1 hr, Madeline goes from saying she wants nothing to do with Bond, to then saying she loves him after a quick shag in a train, to then saying she's leaving him, to then driving away into the sunset with him at the end of the film, all with the memory of Sam Smith's overwrought (imho) song as the preamble.

    There must have been some plan/vision to all of this, because Mendes is an accomplished dramatic director, but it is completely lost on me. Even some high schooler would have probably done a better job of ensuring some emotional credibility to the relationship.

    QoS, despite having some flaws, didn't confuse me like this.
  • Add me to the list of those that think Kurylenko was terribly wooden.

    Also, yeah, never bought for a single second that Craig and Madeline are in love. No way. Is that what the movie wants us to believe at the end? I don't believe Bond does, and I don't believe she does even though she said it.

    That one crazy theoretical essay about Bond being dead in Blofelds chair sounds less crazy than Madelaine and Bond being truly in love.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Anyway, I think QoS' PTS may be the best PTS of the Craig era so far. It's just such a great and deadly chase. Seeing Bond avoiding head on collisions with other cars but not quite managing to avoid a few bumps and crashes all the while his AM soaking up a torrent of bullets. It's such a visceral experience with a cheeky ending.

    On top of that the film has so many great moments, some of them being the best throughout the whole film series; e.g. the scenes with Mathis on the plane and his death.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Craig never looked cooler than he did in that car in the opening scene of QoS imho, except perhaps in the last scene of CR. Pure Bond.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Wholly agreed.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    QOS's PTS is probably my favorite opening 5 minutes of any action movie. Even the start of 'Rogue Nation' doesn't hold a candle to it. It's just a flat-out ballsy chase scene barely 30 seconds after the movie started.
  • love the film. only thing that bothers me is the boat flip edit,which frustrates me for an explanation
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    love the film. only thing that bothers me is the boat flip edit,which frustrates me for an explanation
    While not edited properly, I think it's implied that the grappling hook Bond throws on the boat punctures a hole which causes it to flip over due to the quick release of air.
  • Posts: 1,394
    AceHole wrote: »
    Never understood the bad rap this got. True it's not as strong as CR (no others of the DC era have been), but it's focus, kinetic energy and score are excellent imo.
    The Tosca scene where Bond gets all the conspirators to stand up and be identified is one of the great modern 007 moments.[/quote]

    That scene didnt make the slightest bit of sense.Why hold a company meeting during the middle of an OPERA? They cant possibly communicate with all that loud music and there must be many different ways they can have a meeting without revealing each others identities like oh say.....online?

    Putting that aside just compare Qos' opera scene to the absolute masterclass of the opera sequence in Rogue Nation.THATS how you put together a suspenseful opera sequence in a spy movie.
  • RC7RC7
    edited February 2016 Posts: 10,512
    AstonLotus wrote: »

    That scene didnt make the slightest bit of sense.Why hold a company meeting during the middle of an OPERA? They cant possibly communicate with all that loud music and there must be many different ways they can have a meeting without revealing each others identities like oh say.....online?

    Putting that aside just compare Qos' opera scene to the absolute masterclass of the opera sequence in Rogue Nation.THATS how you put together a suspenseful opera sequence in a spy movie.

    A meeting online? Very visual. If only you'd written the screenplay.

    The RN Opera scene is decent, but serves a different purpose than the QoS scene. If we were to compare, the QoS sequence knocks it out of the park IMO.
  • Posts: 3,336
    I love the fast pace of the movie. As the movie is quite short it is usually the one i pop in when i have bad time. Therefore it is one of the ones i watch the most.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »

    That scene didnt make the slightest bit of sense.Why hold a company meeting during the middle of an OPERA? They cant possibly communicate with all that loud music and there must be many different ways they can have a meeting without revealing each others identities like oh say.....online?

    Putting that aside just compare Qos' opera scene to the absolute masterclass of the opera sequence in Rogue Nation.THATS how you put together a suspenseful opera sequence in a spy movie.

    A meeting online? Very visual. If only you'd written the screenplay.

    The RN Opera scene is decent, but serves a different purpose than the QoS scene. If we were to compare, the QoS sequence knocks it out of the park IMO.
    Both scenes are excellent imho. They are both inspired by Hitchcock's 2nd version of The Man Who Knew Too Much, & are both classy scenes. I prefer the RN scene myself, but there's nothing wrong with the QoS one either. I'd like to see more Bonds film in art locations like this.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »

    That scene didnt make the slightest bit of sense.Why hold a company meeting during the middle of an OPERA? They cant possibly communicate with all that loud music and there must be many different ways they can have a meeting without revealing each others identities like oh say.....online?

    Putting that aside just compare Qos' opera scene to the absolute masterclass of the opera sequence in Rogue Nation.THATS how you put together a suspenseful opera sequence in a spy movie.

    A meeting online? Very visual. If only you'd written the screenplay.

    The RN Opera scene is decent, but serves a different purpose than the QoS scene. If we were to compare, the QoS sequence knocks it out of the park IMO.
    Both scenes are excellent imho. They are both inspired by Hitchcock's 2nd version of The Man Who Knew Too Much, & are both classy scenes. I prefer the RN scene myself, but there's nothing wrong with the QoS one either. I'd like to see more Bonds film in art locations like this.

    I do like the RN scene, it's choreographed really well. There's just something about Tosca. Forster elevates it with the direction, the editing, the score. The way the scene moves is beautiful.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    The RN scene was good, but the QOS one was so much superiour IMHO.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Ok. That's it. All this talk of Opera has made it clear that I have to watch both the brilliant QoS and equally superb MI-RN again, and I'm going to do that tonight. Great to have the evening plans sorted out.
  • Posts: 3,336
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »

    That scene didnt make the slightest bit of sense.Why hold a company meeting during the middle of an OPERA? They cant possibly communicate with all that loud music and there must be many different ways they can have a meeting without revealing each others identities like oh say.....online?

    Putting that aside just compare Qos' opera scene to the absolute masterclass of the opera sequence in Rogue Nation.THATS how you put together a suspenseful opera sequence in a spy movie.

    A meeting online? Very visual. If only you'd written the screenplay.

    The RN Opera scene is decent, but serves a different purpose than the QoS scene. If we were to compare, the QoS sequence knocks it out of the park IMO.
    Both scenes are excellent imho. They are both inspired by Hitchcock's 2nd version of The Man Who Knew Too Much, & are both classy scenes. I prefer the RN scene myself, but there's nothing wrong with the QoS one either. I'd like to see more Bonds film in art locations like this.

    I do like the RN scene, it's choreographed really well. There's just something about Tosca. Forster elevates it with the direction, the editing, the score. The way the scene moves is beautiful.

    Agree, it looks beautiful that scene, pluss the score is amazing.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Tosca's not for everyone. But we of finer taste can appreciate it. ;)
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    QoS is the kid in the class who sits in the corner and cries, feeling emotionally detract from his other schoolmates. The 6th graders(DN,FRWL,GF,AND TB) all tease the little film. After school he goes home to his parents bickering and spends his time in his room crying himself further to sleep. Let's appreciate the film for what it is. Not CR, but still a very good film. No negative comments on the sometimes crazy plot and action scenes that were "weak". Is that too much to ask? If there are plot points that you don't understand, comment and we'll all pitch in to help.

    QoS has some great elements. Craig, the score, the tone, the car chase at the beginning, the girls, the cast (bar the shit villains).
  • Posts: 1,394
    So....why didnt '' Oberhauser '' have any photos of Greene or Fields to hang up at MI6 along with the cast of the other Craig films at the climax of Spectre?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    So....why didnt '' Oberhauser '' have any photos of Greene or Fields to hang up at MI6 along with the cast of the other Craig films at the climax of Spectre?

    I'd like to think it isn't the case, but maybe EON are effectively trying to brush QoS under the rug as much as possible considering how slammed it gets ad nauseam by people who likely only bothered seeing it once or worse, didn't see it at all and went on word of mouth alone to convey their opinion.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    He chose the most important key figures of Bond's life.
    Greene still gets a mention from Blofeld and an appearance on Q's laptop.
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