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James Bond Villians of today..

002002
edited December 2011 in Bond Movies Posts: 581
is it just me or is it that all the villians these days are all bland, lack personality and well a sense of non-threatening (not like Blofeld, Sanchez, Treveylan) i mean there hasnt been a decent villian since Electra King and Renard back in 1999 (well maybe ill throw Lee' Chiffre and Nikolai Diavolo to the exception) anyway lets look at it:

Gustauv Graves= pretentious whiny millionaire- the only good thing i liked about him was when he gets minced in the fan
Alex Dimitrios= again not a very interesting charater
Lee Chiffre= actually he is quite decent so i will add him to the exceptional list
Mr White= boring feels more like a plot device than a charater
Dominic Greene= the most pathetic villian in the 49 year old film history
pratically any villian from the video game Bloodstone

is this because they want realism now instead?
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Comments

  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Probably so. Over-the-top villains like Dr. No, Goldfinger, Blofeld, Kananga, Scaramanga, Karl Stromberg, Hugo Drax, and Max Zorin are typically the ones getting parodied the most, however awesome we think they are. It's sad that no one has a sense of imagination and fun anymore. Hopefully SkyFall will turn this around!

    And I agree with you on all except Mr. White. I kind of liked him, but you hit the nail on the head with the others.
  • karl007karl007
    Posts: 151
    Its hard to tell but i thought dominic greene was a joke compared to le chiffre dont get me started on his henchman elvis.. didnt feel as Threatening as the henchmen in CR
    i hope javier bardem will be diffrent.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    002 wrote:
    is it just me or is it that all the villians these days are all bland, lack personality and well a sense of non-threatening (not like Blofeld, Sanchez, Treveylan) i mean there hasnt been a decent villian since Electra King and Renard back in 1999 (well maybe ill throw Lee' Chiffre and Nikolai Diavolo to the exception) anyway lets look at it:

    Gustauv Graves= pretentious whiny millionaire- the only good thing i liked about him was when he gets minced in the fan
    Alex Dimitrios= again not a very interesting charater
    Lee Chiffre= actually he is quite decent so i will add him to the exceptional list
    Mr White= boring feels more like a plot device than a charater
    Dominic Greene= the most pathetic villian in the 49 year old film history
    pratically any villian from the video game Bloodstone

    is this because they want realism now instead?

    Sacnhez proved you can have a threatening, memorable villian that is realistic so I don't think realism is it. But yeah you're absoloutley right, hopefully bardems character in skyfall will be memorable (im hoping fiennes is blofeld so he will definetly be memorable if my wish comes true)
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited December 2011 Posts: 13,356
    Charles Grey as Blofeld wasn't memorable, so if Fiennes plays that role it doesn't automatically mean he will be.
  • karl007karl007
    Posts: 151
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Charles Grey as Blofeld wasn't memorable, so if Fiennes plays that role it doesn't automatically mean he will be.
    To be honest if they brought back anyone as blofeld im sure it be memorable as a piss take due to a certain dr evil.

  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Charles Grey as Blofeld wasn't memorable, so if Fiennes plays that role it doesn't automatically mean he will be.

    but blofeld overall is a memorable character, because, well he's blofeld. Gray wasn't the most memorable blofeld but he was still alot more memorable than most villians. Everybody would recognise blofeld because he's such a big character and has so many memorable traits.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    karl007 wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Charles Grey as Blofeld wasn't memorable, so if Fiennes plays that role it doesn't automatically mean he will be.
    To be honest if they brought back anyone as blofeld im sure it be memorable as a piss take due to a certain dr evil.

    I think they can make him memorable without making him too much like the old one (as much as I love austin powers im pissed of that thanks to them we've pretty much lost the old blofeld forever)
  • karl007karl007
    Posts: 151
    Wild guess... bardem slightly resembles telly savalas(in my opinion my top blofield)
    i would be happy to see bardem with the iconic cueball head haha
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    i am hoping Bardems villain is relentless like in No Country For Old Men! Fantastic Film! One thought i did have is why his villain's name has not been released yet? Is there any Fleming ones that have not been used yet?
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    RogueAgent wrote:
    Is there any Fleming ones that have not been used yet?

    Quite a few. It would be great for Bardem to be playing one of them but updated for today.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Interesting? As i thought he had been overlooked? All the attention really has been on Fiennes as to whether he is Blofeld? And Harris as to whether she is Moneypenny?

    A new thread perhaps? :-? lol
  • commandbond007commandbond007
    Posts: 660
    Samuel001 wrote:
    RogueAgent wrote:
    Is there any Fleming ones that have not been used yet?

    Quite a few. It would be great for Bardem to be playing one of them but updated for today.
    who is left?

  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    i am not sure but hopefully samuel will be able to give us a few names? And what roles they were? Villain? Henchman?.....etc
  • Agent005Agent005
    edited December 2011 Posts: 562
    Edit: Somehow ended up with a double post...

    Edit #2: My original post has disappeared. Time to try to recreate it...

    The villains, as of late, have had little to no charisma, save for Mads Mikkelsen. Amalric did have one or two moments in QoS where he did, in my opinion, live up to the classic Bond villain mould. Namely his interaction with Bond and Camille at the Greene Planet party. Other than that, his performance fell flat.

    I'm greatly looking forward to seeing what Bardem will bring to the table.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited December 2011 Posts: 13,356
    As far as I can remember you've got Jack Spang, Serrafimo Spang, General Grubozaboyschikov, Von Hammerstein, Sluggsy Morant, Sol Horror (these last two are from The Spy Who Loved Me, so can't be used), Hendriks, Major Dexter Smythe and Maria Freudenstein all from Fleming's novels yet to be touched upon.
  • actonsteveactonsteve
    Posts: 1,492
    Unfortunately due to Austin Powers we wont be getting a Drax or Dr No for a while.

    Le Chiffre was an excellent villain. Very memorable.
  • SJK91SJK91
    Posts: 1,310
    I really liked Le Chiffre actually and thought that eye thing was neat in a tongue and cheek sort of way. Only in Bond.

    Dominic Greene was just...ugh...and Elvis? You've got to be kidding me. I just don't know what they were thinking with those two. I mean last time we had a villain with little physical menace was Elliot Carver in TND. But at least he had a personality (a crazy one, mind you...) and Stamper was a big, tough looking guy who could physically match Bond. When you put two weasels together like QOS did with Greene and Elvis, you get the worst villains in the history of the franchise.

    I think Javier Bardem (just by being Bardem) is going to make for a memorable villain. Just a feeling I have.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    nice one samuel001! Looking at those names? Could be tricky? Although you could adapt them somehow? Spang could be villainous brothers whether they be twins or not? Obviously no good for Bond 23 unless? Ole Rapace was a younger brother to Bardem's Charactor?

    The more outlandish ones could be adapted to nick names on their files and so on? As in the past they have lifted stuff from different novels to put in the movies? Why not names too? And they did say that certain charactors could be recognised by certain members of Bonds fans?

    Thats why i am surprised i have not seen Bardem mentioned in terms of name speculation?
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    Villians have seemed bland of late (except for Mr. White and LeChiffe) I agree with most of your posts. Except...
    What is this obscession with Blofeld? For such an iconic character that Fleming created he has never been well protrayed in the films (exception being Telly Savalas) Donald Pleasance, Charles Gray and that wheelchair bound clown in FYEO PTS were weak, weak and disappointing. Also Blofeld is easily parodied. Younger fans now see Blofeld or any film incantation of him and they immediately recall Austin Powers...

    I do not think EON does not own any rights to the character and that's fine.(and correct me if I'm wrong, this may be why you never see the character since NSNA) Times have changed and who needs Blofeld anyway? Just because Fiennes has cut off his hair you think he gonna be Blofeld? I ask again: WHO THE THE HELL NEEDS BLOFELD?

    Back to the question, I think yes, movies are more realistic and the old egomaniacal sinister over the top organizations are long gone. Quantum is more realistic than SPECTRE, and they will keep to this route. (I hope )
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,662
    What we need is a main villain with more screen presence than the previous half dozen, so even if he's not physically threatening, his presence alone would keep you interested in him. Trevelyan was physical, but then again, there's something about Bean that demands the audience's attention. Le Chiffre wasn't physical, but he was quite interesting to watch. I want to get swept up in the villain's character, and I think Bardem may just be the guy to bring that vibe to SF.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Hendriks, Major Dexter Smythe and Maria Freudenstein all from Fleming's novels yet to be touched upon.

    Major Dexter Smythe was Octopussy's father so he is used unfourtunately
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    What is this obscession with Blofeld? For such an iconic character that Fleming created he has never been well protrayed in the films (exception being Telly Savalas) Donald Pleasance, Charles Gray and that wheelchair bound clown in FYEO PTS were weak, weak and disappointing. Also Blofeld is easily parodied. Younger fans now see Blofeld or any film incantation of him and they immediately recall Austin Powers...


    I do not think EON does not own any rights to the character and that's fine.(and correct me if I'm wrong, this may be why you never see the character since NSNA) Times have changed and who needs Blofeld anyway? Just because Fiennes has cut off his hair you think he gonna be Blofeld? I ask again: WHO THE THE HELL NEEDS BLOFELD?

    Back to the question, I think yes, movies are more realistic and the old egomaniacal sinister over the top organizations are long gone. Quantum is more realistic than SPECTRE, and they will keep to this route. (I hope )

    Blofeld is a great charater as he was unseen for a number of films and he was badass enough to kill his own employees in Sadistic ways- he fed Helga Brandant to piranhas which is messed up

    when we do see him he looks really disturbing especially with the eye scar- Donald Pleassence did a great job- only Terry and Charles were weak. there is something iconic about a white persian cat stroked by big hands with an octopuss ring.

    i think EON bought the rights of Spectre and Blofeld (aswell as NSNA) because in the recent goldeneye game you can play as Blofeld (and previously he has been called Spectre Number 1 in Rouge Agent to avoid copyright) so they must have bought the rights overwise they might be sued and also Kevin McCory is dead.

    Seriously? Quantum is better than the old Spectre organisation? a bunch of idoits who just want a couple more dollars from everybodys water bill? first they wanted oil? THEN THEY WANTED WATER? Spectre's plans were atleast "Terrolist" like- Quantum is just confusing and well...weak
  • Agent005Agent005
    Posts: 562
    002 wrote:
    Seriously? Quantum is better than the old Spectre organisation? a bunch of idoits who just want a couple more dollars from everybodys water bill?

    evian(2).jpg

    Quantum strikes again!


  • 002002
    edited December 2011 Posts: 581
    .
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited December 2011 Posts: 14,662
    002 wrote:
    Quantum is better than the old Spectre organisation? a bunch of idiots who just want a couple more dollars from everybody's water bill?

    Wait- so Quantum is really just the government? :O
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited December 2011 Posts: 14,662
    Surely we can still have villains who are over-the-top, flamboyant, eccentric etc. Maybe without the underground lairs and such- but just because the last two films have been realistic, I wouldn't rule them out in future. I think demand for the old-school villains and plots will come back in waves. I know I'd certainly like to see some more colourful characters in the Bondiverse.
  • SAMSAM
    Posts: 107
    002 wrote:
    is it just me or is it that all the villians these days are all bland, lack personality and well a sense of non-threatening (not like Blofeld, Sanchez, Treveylan) i mean there hasnt been a decent villian since Electra King and Renard back in 1999 (well maybe ill throw Lee' Chiffre and Nikolai Diavolo to the exception) anyway lets look at it:

    Gustauv Graves= pretentious whiny millionaire- the only good thing i liked about him was when he gets minced in the fan
    Alex Dimitrios= again not a very interesting charater
    Lee Chiffre= actually he is quite decent so i will add him to the exceptional list
    Mr White= boring feels more like a plot device than a charater
    Dominic Greene= the most pathetic villian in the 49 year old film history
    pratically any villian from the video game Bloodstone

    is this because they want realism now instead?

    I have to disagree with you here. Le' Chiffre (Mads Mikkelsen) was a damn sight more menacing character than the bland Elecktra King and Renard (probably Robert Carlisle's worst performance). That torture scene in Casino Royale was epic.

    But, I understand and agree with your overall argument. Many modern James Bond villains would be no match to Blofeld (Telly Savalas portrayal).
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    If we can go back to the original post then It's hard not to argue that recent Bond adversaries have been mainly colorless, banal and without any real threat or such. Le Chiffre was a real disappointment and the Greene character is widely accepted as being not above flat, Dimitrios was probably better from what I remember, he certainly appeared more threatening and I was impressed with Obanno whenever he was on screen

    Can't remember a proper Bond villain that really radiated menace since Robert Davi's Sanchez and that was back in the 1980s, others since haven't really reached the same level
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited December 2011 Posts: 13,356
    002 wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Hendriks, Major Dexter Smythe and Maria Freudenstein all from Fleming's novels yet to be touched upon.

    Major Dexter Smythe was Octopussy's father so he is used unfourtunately

    In name but not in character. Giving him a different name would make for a tense scene if you used it as it plays in the short story.
  • SAMSAM
    Posts: 107
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    If we can go back to the original post then It's hard not to argue that recent Bond adversaries have been mainly colorless, banal and without any real threat or such. Le Chiffre was a real disappointment and the Greene character is widely accepted as being not above flat, Dimitrios was probably better from what I remember, he certainly appeared more threatening and I was impressed with Obanno whenever he was on screen

    Can't remember a proper Bond villain that really radiated menace since Robert Davi's Sanchez and that was back in the 1980s, others since haven't really reached the same level

    Robert Davi was certainly a fine James Bond villain. Though Sean Bean's turn as Travelian (correct spelling ?) was equally good. Though I still believe Bean would have been a good 90s Bond.

    In addition, Mads Mikkelsen's portrayal was almost identical to the character in Ian Fleming's novel (exempt appearance - From my memory, Ian Fleming's Le' Chiffre was small and out of shape).
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