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Music in SPECTRE

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  • Risico007Risico007
    edited February 2016 Posts: 9,847
    Spectre's soundtrack is ok it just has a lot of skyfall bits that are reused.


    Hoping for Joe Krammer to do Bond 25 or David Arnold to come back for bond 25
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited February 2016 Posts: 16,351
    My first time attempting a rescore. I rescored the Spectre Car chase and Train fight using music from 007 Everything or Nothing.
    EDIT Fixed link
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4uQl513f7k Car Chase
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VxZiiTOHrM Train Fight
  • GettlerGettler USA
    Posts: 326
    Cool stuff. Music seems fitting for the Bronson era. That's how I hear it at least. Not that that's a bad thing.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Nice job, @Murdock. I would replay Everything or Nothing just for the score itself.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Thank you both, Everything or Nothing had a fantastic soundtrack. I really enjoyed doing this. I plan on doing more soon. :)
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    I'd love to see the car chase rescored with the chase music from the Bloodstone soundtrack. :D
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    jake24 wrote: »
    I'd love to see the car chase rescored with the chase music from the Bloodstone soundtrack. :D
    Actually I am planning on doing that as well. :D

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Watched SP again tonight. Came away again very impressed with Newman's work in this film. Excellent mood setting scoring throughout. He only blew it (imho) at the very end in the MI6 London scenes where it gets quite distracting. His quieter moments, ambient scoring, suspense scoring, and romantic scoring are first class imho.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited February 2016 Posts: 10,591
    bondjames wrote: »
    Watched SP again tonight. Came away again very impressed with Newman's work in this film. Excellent mood setting scoring throughout. He only blew it (imho) at the very end in the MI6 London scenes where it gets quite distracting. His quieter moments, ambient scoring, suspense scoring, and romantic scoring are first class imho.
    Actually, I found Newman's Spectre work at its best during the London scenes. The complicated strings have a somewhat eerie feel to them which further evokes the oddity of the finale. The Westminster Bridge track is a perfect example, with his use of both drums and guitar, along with some great orchestral moments such as the homage to Thunderball. It's also particularly noticeable when Newman uses that disturbing, almost horror-like sound just as Blofeld's helicopter clips the bridge.

    I agree with you on the romantic themes, though I thought his action scoring was superior in SF. Like Snow Plane, for example, where it felt as if he was creatively stumped. But heck, even if you get past the electronic filler music that occupies most of the track, there are some nice albeit brief orchestral moments that creep their way into it.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    jake24 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Watched SP again tonight. Came away again very impressed with Newman's work in this film. Excellent mood setting scoring throughout. He only blew it (imho) at the very end in the MI6 London scenes where it gets quite distracting. His quieter moments, ambient scoring, suspense scoring, and romantic scoring are first class imho.
    Actually, I found Newman's Spectre work at its best during the London scenes. The complicated strings have a somewhat eerie feel to them which further evokes the oddity of the finale. The Westminster Bridge track is a perfect example, with his use of both drums and guitar, along with some great orchestral moments such as the homage to Thunderball. It's also particularly noticeable when Newman uses that disturbing, almost horror-like sound just as Blofeld's helicopter clips the bridge.

    I agree with you on the romantic themes, though I thought his action scoring was superior in SF. Like Snow Plane, for example, where it felt as if he was creatively stumped. But heck, even if you get past the electronic filler music that occupies most of the track, there are some nice albeit brief orchestral moments that creep their way into it.
    I'm not musically trained, so I just go by the way I feel the music fits the scene. For the London finale I didn't mind the Westminster Bridge track (which echo's the Moors track from SF I think) that you mentioned. I felt it helped to increase the tension level for that boat chase at the end. However, I wasn't a fan of the cue when Bond was actually inside the building, which was a little different (not sure what the track is called). Just my personal preference.

    Regarding the action cues - yes, I don't think Newman is as comfortable with these scenes as he is with the quieter moments. That's where, more than anything, he was borrowing from his SF work imho.

    Having said that, I think he did a pretty good job on that car chase. In a way, I though his scoring upped the tension level a little for that scene, which was filmed in a more balletic fashion, with the cars swerving around streets very cleanly.

    He has been soundly criticized for the most part on here for his efforts on this film, but I honestly think it was a decent effort overall.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    bondjames wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Watched SP again tonight. Came away again very impressed with Newman's work in this film. Excellent mood setting scoring throughout. He only blew it (imho) at the very end in the MI6 London scenes where it gets quite distracting. His quieter moments, ambient scoring, suspense scoring, and romantic scoring are first class imho.
    Actually, I found Newman's Spectre work at its best during the London scenes. The complicated strings have a somewhat eerie feel to them which further evokes the oddity of the finale. The Westminster Bridge track is a perfect example, with his use of both drums and guitar, along with some great orchestral moments such as the homage to Thunderball. It's also particularly noticeable when Newman uses that disturbing, almost horror-like sound just as Blofeld's helicopter clips the bridge.

    I agree with you on the romantic themes, though I thought his action scoring was superior in SF. Like Snow Plane, for example, where it felt as if he was creatively stumped. But heck, even if you get past the electronic filler music that occupies most of the track, there are some nice albeit brief orchestral moments that creep their way into it.
    I'm not musically trained, so I just go by the way I feel the music fits the scene. For the London finale I didn't mind the Westminster Bridge track (which echo's the Moors track from SF I think) that you mentioned. I felt it helped to increase the tension level for that boat chase at the end. However, I wasn't a fan of the cue when Bond was actually inside the building, which was a little different (not sure what the track is called). Just my personal preference.

    Regarding the action cues - yes, I don't think Newman is as comfortable with these scenes as he is with the quieter moments. That's where, more than anything, he was borrowing from his SF work imho.

    Having said that, I think he did a pretty good job on that car chase. In a way, I though his scoring upped the tension level a little for that scene, which was filmed in a more balletic fashion, with the cars swerving around streets very cleanly.

    He has been soundly criticized for the most part on here for his efforts on this film, but I honestly thought it was a decent effort overall.
    I loved the car chase track as well, especially the moment with the choir as Bond and Hinx enter the Vatican. I'm not musically trained either, but when the score and suspense in a scene gets my heart pounding, I regard it as a success. And overall, I'd say Newman succeeded with his score for SP.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    @jake24, This one is for you. The Car Chase with Blood Stone music. Enjoy. :)
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=91AVii2kO8E
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Murdock wrote: »
    @jake24, This one is for you. The Car Chase with Blood Stone music. Enjoy. :)
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=91AVii2kO8E
    Awesome! Looks great.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    That was pretty nice scoring, @Murdock.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Thank you. @ForYourEyesOnly. :)
  • MuddywMuddyw
    Posts: 198
    I think Spectre has an excellent score. I really like the orchestra a lot, much more power and brass than Arnold in all of his scores. The soundtrack really works in the movie. And I still listen to the music without the movie.
  • jaydubya76jaydubya76
    Posts: 53
    On album the Spectre score does sound like Skyfall continued but in film I think Spectre was a stronger entry than Skyfall. Although having said that I think both work better in the film than they do in album form.

    My only real complaint - as with Skyfall - is that there isn't more interpolation of the theme song into the score itself other than one cursory statement. Also concerned that for the 2nd entry running the horn section of the Bond Theme fails to make an appearance within the main body of the film. In this instance only appearing for the Gunbarrel at the beginning and to bring the film to a close at the end (and that's the CR recording again as also used at the end of Skyfall!).
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Thomas Newman has moments of excellence in his score for SP - but sadly he falls back onto already established pieces from SF that really hurt - as well as some missed opportunities to really BLARE the Bond theme, but never done (have to put part of the blame on Mendes for that as well - as director does have control over the music in the film too)... but the thing about Bond scores, is that they are a character themselves, and each one is sort of unique to it's own film... Newman's work just kind of blends together into this kind of mush of ambiguity... if it wasn't for 1 or 2 tracks, you couldn't differentiate the music from SF or SP.... maybe thats how it's supposed to be?.. SF and SP are essentially 2 sides of the same coin anyway right?... but so are CR and QOS, and i feel like Arnold was able to set different melodic themes for both films..

    although i really like SP, everything - right down to the score says "lets just do SF all over again." ...... in a lot of ways, the thought process that went into SP (coming off the success of SF), is almost the same that went into MR following the success of TSWLM.... think about that.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    That's my problem with the score as well. I like 4 tracks out of the entire score but the rest is just quiet, themeless and repetitive, then the constant repeats of Skyfall's music is too destracting. The Plane Chase and Car Chase really demanded a nice use of the Bond theme. The Plane chase had none, while the car chase had one great use of it but for 30 seconds out of a 4 and a half minute track. It's used way to little these days. It needs to be used more in action scenes, not saved for the credits only. As Roger said in AVTAK. "Quite a let down."
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    HASEROT wrote: »
    ...the thought process that went into SP (coming off the success of SF), is almost the same that went into MR following the success of TSWLM.... think about that.

    Never thought of it this way, and while SF/SP are quite different (compared with TSWLM vs MR) they do have a similar feel, thanks (not!) especially to Newman's score.

    Perhaps there is "atmosphere" to Newman's score but definitely no identity/character
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    he is very good at the atmospheric stuff, and the quieter moments as @bondjames alluded to earlier.... i love the tracks "Donna Lucia" - "The Pale King" - "Madeleine" - "Secret Room" ... there is a lot of excellence in those tracks - some elegance, beauty, some foreboding tension...

    ... but again, sadly - the only other 2 tracks i would mention as liking are "Lose Muertos Vivos Estan" and "Backfire" (even though the last part of Backfire is used during the helicopter fight in the PTS - as well as the train fight from the PTS of SF)....

    the rest is just kind of "meh" to me.... it works for background noise in the film - but on it's own, the entire thing is just "meh".
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited February 2016 Posts: 16,351
    That's the same feeling I get as well. My favorite tracks are...

    Los Muertos Vivos Estan
    Donna Lucia
    The Pale King
    Backfire
    and the last minute of Detonation.

    The rest is just lifeless and unmemorable sadly.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    it is.... because if you put it in contrast to Arnold's last effort (QOS) - and how everyone complained about his scores - i find Arnold have far more memorable cues spread throughout his score..

    Time To Get Out
    The Palio
    Bond in Haiti
    Green & Camille
    Night At The Opera
    What's Keeping You Awake (even though it was a rework of "Vesper" from CR)
    Target Terminated
    Camille's Story (especially the last half of it)
    Oil Fields
    Perla De Las Dunas

    i'll take almost every one of those above over anything off of both scores for SF and SP.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I enjoy all of Arnold's scores. sure he sometimes used a bit too much electronic elements but that's what music of that era incorporated. His work during Brosnan's run was some of the best scores I've heard in recent years. What he did for CR and QOS are also great. He did tone down usage of the Bond theme a bit which is understandable as Bond was earning it in CR and QOS but I think by Skyfall and especially Spectre it should have been used a little more.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited February 2016 Posts: 4,399
    Murdock wrote: »
    I enjoy all of Arnold's scores. sure he sometimes used a bit too much electronic elements but that's what music of that era incorporated. His work during Brosnan's run was some of the best scores I've heard in recent years. What he did for CR and QOS are also great. He did tone down usage of the Bond theme a bit which is understandable as Bond was earning it in CR and QOS but I think by Skyfall and especially Spectre it should have been used a little more.

    for CR, i think it was a mutual decision between both him and Campbell to not use the Bond theme until the very end - because like you said, they wanted to punctuate that moment when Bond caps Mr. White's knee... and since QOS was a continuation - Arnold employed the same style - although he sprinkled in more nuances of the Bond theme here and there.... more so than he did with CR..

    but like you said, had he done SF and SP, i think probably would've incorporated it back in more - something that has been sadly lacking from Craig's run.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    HASEROT wrote: »
    he is very good at the atmospheric stuff, and the quieter moments as @bondjames alluded to earlier.... i love the tracks "Donna Lucia" - "The Pale King" - "Madeleine" - "Secret Room" ... there is a lot of excellence in those tracks - some elegance, beauty, some foreboding tension...

    Might work for a film like Wall-E, but for Bond I want some blaring in your face music with character. But that's just me, doesn't seem like EON care. Background music is not Bond

    I feel for QoS there was some collaboration between Forster and Arnold as the score for that is very different to Arnold's other efforts. That's one thing they got right for QoS.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    HASEROT wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I enjoy all of Arnold's scores. sure he sometimes used a bit too much electronic elements but that's what music of that era incorporated. His work during Brosnan's run was some of the best scores I've heard in recent years. What he did for CR and QOS are also great. He did tone down usage of the Bond theme a bit which is understandable as Bond was earning it in CR and QOS but I think by Skyfall and especially Spectre it should have been used a little more.

    for CR, i think it was a mutual decision between both him and Campbell to not use the Bond theme until the very end - because like you said, they wanted to punctuate that moment when Bond caps Mr. White's knee... and since QOS was a continuation - Arnold employed the same style - although he sprinkled in more nuances of the Bond theme here and there.... more so than he did with CR..

    but like you said, had he done SF and SP, i think probably would've incorporated it back in more - something that has been sadly lacking from Craig's run.

    Exactly Bond was earning his wings which was understand it. But we did get little hints of it nicely used, When he wins the DB5, when he puts on the Tux, When Vesper saves him after he's poisoned, When he wins the Poker game and lastly when he caps White in the Knee. perfectly utilized.

    I think it was used a bit less in QOS but I thought the score was solid. His stuff is so good you can listen to it over and over again.

    Sadly I don't get that with Newman's efforts. It's a bit difficult to really know what went wrong.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited February 2016 Posts: 4,399
    well... in fairness - quieter moments don't need blaring music - the score in a scene is often a reflection of the mood that is going on - or, in some cases (to be ironic) it will be a stark contrast to what is going on.... so a sensual moment between Bond and Lucia should be accompanied by just as equally sensual music - not blaring brass trumpets as if the cavalry were about to storm through the room.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    HASEROT wrote: »
    well... in fairness - quieter moments don't need blaring music - the score in a scene is often a reflection of the mood that is going on - or, in some cases (to be ironic) it will be a stark contrast to what is going on.... so a sensual moment between Bond and Lucia should be accompanied by just as equally sensual music - not blaring brass trumpets as if the cavalry were about to storm through the room.

    Well that's not what I'm getting at. It doesn't need to be brassy or bombastic in every instance. I thought Donna Lucia was done perfectly. I think some moments weren't well defined. Like, Lucia, had a theme, Madeline had a theme but Blofeld or Spectre didn't really have any defining musical themes to get attached too. Perhaps some things were too underscored? I'm not saying ambiance is bad either. Barry and Arnold did ambience pretty well but with Newman some moments are too quiet and not really defined good enough.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Murdock wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    well... in fairness - quieter moments don't need blaring music - the score in a scene is often a reflection of the mood that is going on - or, in some cases (to be ironic) it will be a stark contrast to what is going on.... so a sensual moment between Bond and Lucia should be accompanied by just as equally sensual music - not blaring brass trumpets as if the cavalry were about to storm through the room.

    Well that's not what I'm getting at. It doesn't need to be brassy or bombastic in every instance. I thought Donna Lucia was done perfectly. I think some moments weren't well defined. Like, Lucia, had a theme, Madeline had a theme but Blofeld or Spectre didn't really have any defining musical themes to get attached too. Perhaps some things were too underscored? I'm not saying ambiance is bad either. Barry and Arnold did ambience pretty well but with Newman some moments are too quiet and not really defined good enough.

    oh not disagreeing with you... my response there was more to what @w2bond had said
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