Things you never want to see in a Bond film again

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  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Daniel Craig!
  • It's not a question of whether the Bond girl should be equal to Bond, it's that no one should be 'equal' to Bond- and if they don't need Bond, they don't really need to be there. I think that the portrayal of the Bond girls should be balanced and not be an apologia for decades of sexism. However there's no reason to make them brainless; there's plenty of old Bond girls who may not be Bond's equal but can still hold their own.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,356
    I want more Bond girls like Natalya. A regular person brought into the fantastic world of Bond.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Murdock wrote: »
    I want more Bond girls like Natalya. A regular person brought into the fantastic world of Bond.

    Natalya may just be the most believable Bond girl in the franchise.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,356
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That's what I like, though, to be fair, they had Natalya pulling some shit off that a regular person could not.
    Yeah towards the end she did do a 180 but luckily she didn't get too much off track.

  • Posts: 4,325
    Imagine the following:

    A three minute car chase.

    You'll only get shots of maximum 2.5 seconds. Most are under 1.5 seconds.

    Totally over 100 shots in 3 minutes, including most shots are done with shaky camera.

    You'll get it's a car chase, that's all. Oh and a soaring headache.

    Quantum Of Solace has by far the worst PTS ever.

    It's a crime, it's treason, the editor responsible should get deported to Siberia where he has to edit the tapes of the observation cameras that film the icy landscape 24 hours a day. At least for 10 years, if not life.

    I still think QoS has one of the best PTS in the series.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Upon my latest viewing, that is the conclusion I have come to as well.

    The best pre-title sequences are GOLDFINGER, THE SPY WHO LOVED ME, MOONRAKER, OCTOPUSSY, THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH, QUANTUM OF SOLACE and SKYFALL.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Imagine the following:

    A three minute car chase.

    You'll only get shots of maximum 2.5 seconds. Most are under 1.5 seconds.

    Totally over 100 shots in 3 minutes, including most shots are done with shaky camera.

    You'll get it's a car chase, that's all. Oh and a soaring headache.

    Quantum Of Solace has by far the worst PTS ever.

    It's a crime, it's treason, the editor responsible should get deported to Siberia where he has to edit the tapes of the observation cameras that film the icy landscape 24 hours a day. At least for 10 years, if not life.

    I still think QoS has one of the best PTS in the series.

    I second this. The PTS car chase is amazing. Not every car chase has to be panning, wide angles. I like the fact that every shot was shown just for a short time, the editing is tight and minimalist.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Imagine the following:

    A three minute car chase.

    You'll only get shots of maximum 2.5 seconds. Most are under 1.5 seconds.

    Totally over 100 shots in 3 minutes, including most shots are done with shaky camera.

    You'll get it's a car chase, that's all. Oh and a soaring headache.

    Quantum Of Solace has by far the worst PTS ever.

    It's a crime, it's treason, the editor responsible should get deported to Siberia where he has to edit the tapes of the observation cameras that film the icy landscape 24 hours a day. At least for 10 years, if not life.

    I still think QoS has one of the best PTS in the series.

    I second this. The PTS car chase is amazing. Not every car chase has to be panning, wide angles. I like the fact that every shot was shown just for a short time, the editing is tight and minimalist.

    Interesting. I always thought it is a given that the editing in QOS was generally disliked.
    Obviously not. It will be interesting to see how the PTS of QOS will do in the elimination game.
    I will re-watch it (it's only roughly 4 minutes) tonight and re-evaluate my opinion on it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The QOS pts is very decent, but hardly among the very best.
  • Posts: 4,325
    The QOS pts is very decent, but hardly among the very best.

    I disagree, my top 5 PTS are

    1. Casino Royale
    2. The Living Daylights
    3. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    4. From Russia with Love
    5. Quantum of Solace
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    The QOS pts is very decent, but hardly among the very best.

    I disagree, my top 5 PTS are

    1. Casino Royale
    2. The Living Daylights
    3. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    4. From Russia with Love
    5. Quantum of Solace

    I agree it is a good car chase, but that is all it is. I think the Spectre car chase would have been a better pts.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 11,189
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    The QOS pts is very decent, but hardly among the very best.

    I disagree, my top 5 PTS are

    1. Casino Royale
    2. The Living Daylights
    3. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    4. From Russia with Love
    5. Quantum of Solace

    I agree it is a good car chase, but that is all it is. I think the Spectre car chase would have been a better pts.

    I think the QOS PTS is too much like an advert in terms of its editing.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,719
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    The QOS pts is very decent, but hardly among the very best.

    I disagree, my top 5 PTS are

    1. Casino Royale
    2. The Living Daylights
    3. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    4. From Russia with Love
    5. Quantum of Solace

    I agree it is a good car chase, but that is all it is. I think the Spectre car chase would have been a better pts.

    I think the QOS PTS is too much like an advert in terms of its editing.

    IMO I had a bigger sense of 'TV advert' style during the sequence when Bond enteres Camille's car in Haiti, up until he gets kicked out of car.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    I want more Bond girls like Natalya. A regular person brought into the fantastic world of Bond.

    Natalya may just be the most believable Bond girl in the franchise.
    Natalya is one of my all time fave's. Had a huge crush on her during the GE release. What a babe. Smart and quite 'sexiful', to quote Tanaka. I'll be her 'boy with toy' any day of the week.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Another good point. Still like it, especially that transition to the mts. All Craig films are great in that regard.
  • Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    The QOS pts is very decent, but hardly among the very best.

    I disagree, my top 5 PTS are

    1. Casino Royale
    2. The Living Daylights
    3. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    4. From Russia with Love
    5. Quantum of Solace

    I agree it is a good car chase, but that is all it is. I think the Spectre car chase would have been a better pts.

    I think the QOS PTS is too much like an advert in terms of its editing.

    IMO I had a bigger sense of 'TV advert' style during the sequence when Bond enteres Camille's car in Haiti, up until he gets kicked out of car.

    and the establishing shots at the party/Craig and Fields getting out of the Ford(?)
  • Posts: 16,182
    One thing I appreciate in the 1st two Craig PTS openings are that they are fairly short. Kind of akin to FRWL and GF. I really don't mind the Q0S PTS...with the exception of one critical element. Unless I'm watching a Sean Connery Bond that also features Edward Fox....I don't want to ever sit in the cinema and be disappointed that the image immediately following the studio logo is NOT that of 2 white dots moving across the screen.
    Also, I think Connery should have been the only Bond to get away with NOT uttering the signature "Bond, James Bond" in each film. That it was removed from QoS, to me, makes the film feel even less like a Bond movie. However, I do feel it should be worked in smoothly and not forced. The Moore films, IMO were best at fitting it in there, yet not really calling attention to itself.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    The QOS pts is very decent, but hardly among the very best.

    I disagree, my top 5 PTS are

    1. Casino Royale
    2. The Living Daylights
    3. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    4. From Russia with Love
    5. Quantum of Solace

    I agree it is a good car chase, but that is all it is. I think the Spectre car chase would have been a better pts.

    I think the QOS PTS is too much like an advert in terms of its editing.

    IMO I had a bigger sense of 'TV advert' style during the sequence when Bond enteres Camille's car in Haiti, up until he gets kicked out of car.

    A truly awful sequence only there to satisfy Ford execs. The crappy music hat sounds like an advertising jingle doesn't help. I find it even more jarring than the similar Ford advert scene in CR.

    Although the 10 minute shot of Bond's hand at the controls of the JCB in SF just so we all get a good look at the Omega he is sporting might just be worst of all.
  • Posts: 4,325
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    The QOS pts is very decent, but hardly among the very best.

    I disagree, my top 5 PTS are

    1. Casino Royale
    2. The Living Daylights
    3. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    4. From Russia with Love
    5. Quantum of Solace

    I agree it is a good car chase, but that is all it is. I think the Spectre car chase would have been a better pts.

    I think the QOS PTS is too much like an advert in terms of its editing.

    IMO I had a bigger sense of 'TV advert' style during the sequence when Bond enteres Camille's car in Haiti, up until he gets kicked out of car.

    A truly awful sequence only there to satisfy Ford execs. The crappy music hat sounds like an advertising jingle doesn't help. I find it even more jarring than the similar Ford advert scene in CR.

    Although the 10 minute shot of Bond's hand at the controls of the JCB in SF just so we all get a good look at the Omega he is sporting might just be worst of all.

    Come on, product placement is hardly new in Bond.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Bond invented product placement in films from 1964 and Flemings novels are full of it.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,817
    QOS's PTS is god-awful. I hated it the first time I watched it and I still do. Like the whole movie it leaves you with a bitter aftertaste. A general 'I didn't like that' feeling.

    Technically speaking Craig's Bond has yet to have a very good car chase, IMO. CR's is closed with an impressive stunt but can you call that a chase? QOS's is just plain bad. SF's brief car chase in the PTS doesn't stand on it's own as it's one part of the larger chase for the list. SP's is just too jokey and doesn't have any sense of pace. So I am still waiting for a good car chase from Craig.

    In an alternative universe I like to imagine that the QOS car chase did not exist and that the Sienna chase was the PTS instead, ending with the upside down shot used as the gunbarrel.
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    The QOS pts is very decent, but hardly among the very best.

    I disagree, my top 5 PTS are

    1. Casino Royale
    2. The Living Daylights
    3. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    4. From Russia with Love
    5. Quantum of Solace

    I agree it is a good car chase, but that is all it is. I think the Spectre car chase would have been a better pts.

    I think the QOS PTS is too much like an advert in terms of its editing.

    IMO I had a bigger sense of 'TV advert' style during the sequence when Bond enteres Camille's car in Haiti, up until he gets kicked out of car.

    A truly awful sequence only there to satisfy Ford execs. The crappy music hat sounds like an advertising jingle doesn't help. I find it even more jarring than the similar Ford advert scene in CR.

    Although the 10 minute shot of Bond's hand at the controls of the JCB in SF just so we all get a good look at the Omega he is sporting might just be worst of all.

    Come on, product placement is hardly new in Bond.
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Bond invented product placement in films from 1964 and Flemings novels are full of it.

    So? Like, seriously, so what? That doesn't mean anything. It's dumb product placement. Something that whilst we can't do anything about we don't have to be content with. It was not at all a problem in the Connery films, and then slowly grew until it exploded in DAD and the Craig era. Enough already. I don't care what watch Bond wears anymore.
    bondjames wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I want more Bond girls like Natalya. A regular person brought into the fantastic world of Bond.

    Natalya may just be the most believable Bond girl in the franchise.
    Natalya is one of my all time fave's. Had a huge crush on her during the GE release. What a babe. Smart and quite 'sexiful', to quote Tanaka. I'll be her 'boy with toy' any day of the week.

    Oh yeah Natalya is great.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,356
    This is something I wouldn't say Never again exactly but For the next few Bond movies I don't want the James Bond theme to be played at the end of the film. All of Craig's films have had ended with the Bond theme and 3 of them being David Arnold's version from Casino Royale. I'd rather the Bond theme play full during the movie, not the end of it.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    It never occurred to me as an issue frankly.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,356
    It's not really an issue but with the Lack of the Bond theme used during important scenes instead of always being reserved for the end is a bit played out.
  • Posts: 16,182
    Murdock wrote: »
    This is something I wouldn't say Never again exactly but For the next few Bond movies I don't want the James Bond theme to be played at the end of the film. All of Craig's films have had ended with the Bond theme and 3 of them being David Arnold's version from Casino Royale. I'd rather the Bond theme play full during the movie, not the end of it.
    I second this. Also that's a very good point. Why use the same rendition of the Bond theme over and over again? Unless it's the original DR NO recording, and I happen to be watching FRWL, I much prefer each film to have it's own version of the Bond thme integrated within the film's score. NOT saved until the end credits. It's far more powerful when the main theme replays over the end credits- especially if it has the punch of, say LALD or AVTAK. YKMN did play at the end of CR after the Bond theme, but...sighs...we still had to wait the entire film to hear the Bond theme. I really do miss John Barry. Even weaker Barry still knew when and where to place the Bond theme music...and each film he did distinctly feels like a James Bond movie.
    Imagine how Star Wars fans would feel if they saved the iconic Star Wars theme for the end.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,356
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    This is something I wouldn't say Never again exactly but For the next few Bond movies I don't want the James Bond theme to be played at the end of the film. All of Craig's films have had ended with the Bond theme and 3 of them being David Arnold's version from Casino Royale. I'd rather the Bond theme play full during the movie, not the end of it.
    I second this. Also that's a very good point. Why use the same rendition of the Bond theme over and over again? Unless it's the original DR NO recording, and I happen to be watching FRWL, I much prefer each film to have it's own version of the Bond thme integrated within the film's score. NOT saved until the end credits. It's far more powerful when the main theme replays over the end credits- especially if it has the punch of, say LALD or AVTAK. YKMN did play at the end of CR after the Bond theme, but...sighs...we still had to wait the entire film to hear the Bond theme. I really do miss John Barry. Even weaker Barry still knew when and where to place the Bond theme music...and each film he did distinctly feels like a James Bond movie.
    Imagine how Star Wars fans would feel if they saved the iconic Star Wars theme for the end.

    Yeah I'm not sure what is up with this recent minimal use of the Bond theme since CR. I understood it being used less as it was Bond earning it but QoS onward should have had it more dominant during action scenes at least. And I don't know why David Arnold's arrangement for CR had to be used in Skyfall and Spectre. Why couldn't Thomas Newman do his own version? Surly there was enough time for him to do a new arrangement of it. There are a lot of questions that need answering. Like is Monty Norman asking too much for royalties of the Theme? Is that why it's featured less? I'm really curious to know because I miss the days when the Bond theme was added perfectly into an action scene and made you want to shout YES THAT'S JAMES BOND RIGHT THERE! Without out it's like Superman without his Iconic theme.
  • Definitely agreed with no more personal errands and tying up loose ends. When I watched Bond in the 70's and 80's (until Licence to Kill, which I blame for starting this trend), I was expecting a new, fresh and fun 007 adventure each time I went to the cinema. I don't want drag-on sequels and Bond rectifying M's mistakes or anything of that sort.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Murdock wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    This is something I wouldn't say Never again exactly but For the next few Bond movies I don't want the James Bond theme to be played at the end of the film. All of Craig's films have had ended with the Bond theme and 3 of them being David Arnold's version from Casino Royale. I'd rather the Bond theme play full during the movie, not the end of it.
    I second this. Also that's a very good point. Why use the same rendition of the Bond theme over and over again? Unless it's the original DR NO recording, and I happen to be watching FRWL, I much prefer each film to have it's own version of the Bond thme integrated within the film's score. NOT saved until the end credits. It's far more powerful when the main theme replays over the end credits- especially if it has the punch of, say LALD or AVTAK. YKMN did play at the end of CR after the Bond theme, but...sighs...we still had to wait the entire film to hear the Bond theme. I really do miss John Barry. Even weaker Barry still knew when and where to place the Bond theme music...and each film he did distinctly feels like a James Bond movie.
    Imagine how Star Wars fans would feel if they saved the iconic Star Wars theme for the end.

    Yeah I'm not sure what is up with this recent minimal use of the Bond theme since CR. I understood it being used less as it was Bond earning it but QoS onward should have had it more dominant during action scenes at least. And I don't know why David Arnold's arrangement for CR had to be used in Skyfall and Spectre. Why couldn't Thomas Newman do his own version? Surly there was enough time for him to do a new arrangement of it. There are a lot of questions that need answering. Like is Monty Norman asking too much for royalties of the Theme? Is that why it's featured less? I'm really curious to know because I miss the days when the Bond theme was added perfectly into an action scene and made you want to shout YES THAT'S JAMES BOND RIGHT THERE! Without out it's like Superman without his Iconic theme.

    Bang on the money. As the speedboat roars out of the crumbling MI6 building any director worth his salt would have said 'I want the Bond theme at full blast here' buy Newman thinks his own music is better.

    Perhaps it is a royalties thing. Perhaps if they use the CR recording Monty only gets paid at 2006 rates or something. Or if they did a new version they'd have to renegotiate with his agent and now the films are making $1 bil he would demand a higher rate? Perhaps they went to pay Monty his royalties but then realised that there was a big black hole in the budget which Mendes had blown up so they couldn't afford to use the Bond theme?

    Or maybe it's just that Newman hasn't got a clue what he's doing and should never be let near the franchise again?

    You're right on Superman too. Watching Man of Steel (which I consider a very poor film) near the end of all the tedious skyscraper smashing there's a bit when he looks beaten and is stuck under a load of rubble. If at that point the proper John Williams theme had started up and Superman had flown up and kicked ass I would have pretty much forgiven the film everything.

    That's the power of these iconic them tunes and you discard them at your peril.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    Purvis & Wade's names appearing in the title sequence.
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