The Bond Movies & Actors I Can't Stand (Negativity Only Please)

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  • edited April 2016 Posts: 11,189
    [/quote]The Shark scene in LTK was directly out of LALD the book. Yes LTK, needed a bit of polish, but it's as close to Fleming we've come so far (alongside OHMSS, CR, DN & FRWL). It's the best Bond film of the 80's by far.[/quote]

    I'm not so sure. Kill works quite well as an action film, but it lacks a sense of class. I'd say that FYEO, OP and TLD are all better Bond films (though they too have their weaknesses). They have a bit more charm to them as well as more exotic locations and a sense of adventure, rather than simply being an occasionally cheesy revenge flick. I enjoy LTK but it does feel rather generic sometimes.
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    My favorite Dalton scene (as well as my favorite Brown as M moment) is at Hemingway House.

    Agreed. "We're not a Country Club 007."

    I honestly think Brown gives the better performance in that scene. I can feel this anger and annoyance towards Bond and his delivery of "your licence to kill is revoked" really has an impact.

    To me it just feels like Dalton's trying a bit too hard with his angry expression. It's like he thinks that this scene and his performance is going to be electric. I can't help but imagine how Connery or Craig would have acted it had they been in Dalton's place. Something tells me they would have played it with a bit more reservation and subtlety.
  • Posts: 4,325
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    The Shark scene in LTK was directly out of LALD the book. Yes LTK, needed a bit of polish, but it's as close to Fleming we've come so far (alongside OHMSS, CR, DN & FRWL). It's the best Bond film of the 80's by far.[/quote]

    I'm not so sure. Kill works quite well as an action film, but it lacks a sense of class. I'd say that FYEO, OP and TLD are all better Bond films (though they too have their weaknesses). They have a bit more charm to them as well as more exotic locations and a sense of adventure, rather than simply being an occasionally cheesy revenge flick. I enjoy LTK but it does feel rather generic sometimes. [/quote]

    Yes I'd agree it misses the class.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I'm not so sure. Kill works quite well as an action film, but it lacks a sense of class. I'd say that FYEO, OP and TLD are all better Bond films (though they too have their weaknesses). They have a bit more charm to them as well as more exotic locations and a sense of adventure, rather than simply being an occasionally cheesy revenge flick. I enjoy LTK but it does feel rather generic sometimes.
    I agree that it's missing the style & glamour that characterizes the best Bond films. Both in the acting (especially supporting characters) and in the cinematograpy and locations. It's quite generic in this regard, and, dare I say it, a bit 'tv movie' like.

    Still, Dalton, Davi & Del Toro do a good enough job for me & I really like the way Bond intelligently goes about infiltrating Sanchez's organization & making him paranoid, so I'm able to forgive all its other weaknesses.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,077
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    The Shark scene in LTK was directly out of LALD the book. Yes LTK, needed a bit of polish, but it's as close to Fleming we've come so far (alongside OHMSS, CR, DN & FRWL). It's the best Bond film of the 80's by far.[/quote]

    I'm not so sure. Kill works quite well as an action film, but it lacks a sense of class. I'd say that FYEO, OP and TLD are all better Bond films (though they too have their weaknesses). They have a bit more charm to them as well as more exotic locations and a sense of adventure, rather than simply being an occasionally cheesy revenge flick. I enjoy LTK but it does feel rather generic sometimes. [/quote

    Exactly. LTK doesn't feel like a Bond film. Even with those scenes from LALD it still just comes across as an 80's revenge thriller that happens to feature a bloke called James Bond. Could have been Kevin Costner or Mel Gibson in the film for how Bondian it is.
  • Posts: 4,325
    LTK feels like Rashoman to me.
  • edited April 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I think the (partly) Miami setting and the Michael Kamen score are partly why the film feels more like an American action film rather than a Bond film.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Milton Krest character, Felix shark scene, Dalton's portrayal? Have you ever read a book??? Bond disobeys direct orders through the series and books....read TLD short story! I can go on.......Dalton is Fleming's Bond.

    Although both the main plot and title of Licence to Kill owe nothing to any of the Fleming novels, there are elements from the books that are used in the storyline, including a number of aspects of the short story "The Hildebrand Rarity", such as the character Milton Krest. The novel Live and Let Die provided the material surrounding Felix Leiter's mauling by a shark, whilst the film version of the book provided the close similarity between the main villain, Kananga, and Licence to Kill's main villain Sanchez.

    Anyhow, how is LTK like Miami Vice? I've seen every episode so eager to know?

    Read all the novels many times over.

    Milton Krest is in name only. But it is inspired by Fleming.

    Sanchez using a stingray tail is from Fleming.

    Bond disobeying an order on killing a sniper is allowing a school boy style crush to disobey M's orders.

    It has more Fleming elements than many of the other films in the series.

    Anyhow, how is LTK like Miami Vice? I've seen every episode so eager to know?
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited April 2016 Posts: 5,131
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    EON Productions presents Timothy Dalton as Ian Fleming's James Bond 007

    Truer than it's ever been too.

    "Licence To Kill is one of the most underrated Bond movies since On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Timothy Dalton embodies the character. With a break away from the comic-book villains and fantastical locations, the filmmakers decide to focus instead on a very adult and contemporary story about drug smuggling and revenge.

    Its themes require a more mature perspective than its predecessors. Unfortunately, these factors seem to be what critics of Licence To Kill call 'faults'. Casino Royale gets major appreciation from critics for its grittiness and its darker edge. So why not Licence To Kill?

    This is the movie that started the current trend, with Dalton's mature portrayal of Bond paving the way for the unfortunately mid market Pierce Brosnan and, without doubt, Daniel Craig.

    The characters in Licence To Kill are one of it's major plus points. James Bond is the most human we have seen him since OHMSS and up to CR, as Dalton brings a real sense emotional depth to the character; a tortured man full of hurt and pain and vengeance. It's a rare scenario where you feel Bond has met someone of equal competence. The Sanchez character is a frightening presence, and an early role from Benicio Del Toro is just as effective; his chilling grin a fear-inducing sight.

    The brilliant Michael Kamen also supplies us with an elegant, sensual and brooding score that is a vital player unto itself, complimenting the visuals excellently.

    With a striking leading man in Bond's shoes, Licence To Kill deserves a lot more credit than it gets. This is the film that broke the mould, opening the doors to a more adult, violent Bond.

    In Timothy Dalton we have a brilliant actor in the starring role who brought us a more human and believable Bond, yet it is Daniel Craig who is currently getting the credit for these exact traits. His characterisation is superb. But Dalton is the one who started it off, and it is a shame that he only made the two films".
    [/i]

  • Posts: 11,189
    I confess I've not seen Miami Vice properly, but there are a fair few stereotype characters in LTK that seem like they are lifted from American films:

    Kilifer (cigar chewing, hammy DEA agent)
    Sharkey
    The random agent/cop at Felix's house ("stick around...we might have some more questions for you")
    Della
    Die Hard's Agent Johnson DEA agent (don't know his name).

    Felix's exposition about "Sanchez's law" also feels kind of cheesy.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I agree @BAIN123, LTK certainly gives off a Miami Vice vibe in more than one place. In a way it's as if they shoehorned James Bond into that world, which gives it a unique and disorienting feel at times - easy to forget what you're watching.

    Even Dalton's clothes are somewhat in keeping with that period with the big shoulder pads / baggy pleated trousers etc. and Davi's outfits are right out of the Crockett/Tubbs playbook, right down to flashy gold watch.

    Having said that, there are just enough Bondian moments later on (including the casino scene/attempted assassination scene etc.) to keep it real.

    Ironically, the Miami Vice hold on popular culture was pretty much on its way out by the time LTK was released, which perhaps somewhat dated the film even on arrival.
  • edited April 2016 Posts: 4,325
    LTK feels like Rashoman to me.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I confess I've not seen Miami Vice properly, but there are a fair few stereotype characters in LTK that seem like they are lifted from American films:

    Kilifer (cigar chewing, hammy DEA agent)
    Sharkey
    The random agent/cop at Felix's house ("stick around...we might have some more questions for you")
    Della
    Die Hard's Agent Johnson DEA agent (don't know his name).

    Felix's exposition about "Sanchez's law" also feels kind of cheesy.

    DEA agent - played by Grand L. Bush, who also appeared the The Lethal Weapon series.
  • edited April 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I should have included the Hong Kong Narcotics agent too.

    Yes, I agree that the best parts of the film mainly come in the last 30 minutes.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,438
    I wouldn't say I can't stand Casino Royale, but it's pretty bad. Yes, the 2006 version .
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    Ok here is my biggest Bond complian

    Roger Moore and George Lazenby 's voices really get on my nerves they sound like Goofy the disney character.
    Maybe this is why I can't take them seriously as Bond and can't think of them as spies or woman going crazy over them they are the two Bonds most lacking in sex appeal
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    They sound like Goofy? Gawsh!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    @Szonana, I'm the complete opposite to you. Moore's voice is super refined and cool to my ears.

    It's Brosnan's I can't stand. Distinctly lightweight imho (in sound and intonation) and one of his worst attributes. I'm sure you'll disagree.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Szonana, I'm the complete opposite to you. Moore's voice is super refined and cool to my ears.

    It's Brosnan's I can't stand. Distinctly lightweight imho (in sound and intonation) and one of his worst attributes. I'm sure you'll disagree.

    Of course i disagree, i find Pierce's voice very sexy. a nice mix between soft and deep.
    But to each her/his own. The voice appeal is really subjective at least speaking voice because with singers is another thing

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    So true.

    Is Bond dubbed in Mexico? If so, the voice artist who does Goofy may have been hired to do those Bonds as well.

    Funny if the Mickey Mouse voice actor did Craig s Bond.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Szonana wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Szonana, I'm the complete opposite to you. Moore's voice is super refined and cool to my ears.

    It's Brosnan's I can't stand. Distinctly lightweight imho (in sound and intonation) and one of his worst attributes. I'm sure you'll disagree.

    Of course i disagree, i find Pierce's voice very sexy. a nice mix between soft and deep.
    But to each her/his own. The voice appeal is really subjective at least speaking voice because with singers is another thing
    Yes, it's definitely subjective and I only realized recently what an impact it can have on one's perceptions. It's more of a subconscious impact, rather than visuals which you notice consciously and right away.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    So true.

    Is Bond dubbed in Mexico? If so, the voice artist who does Goofy may have been hired to do those Bonds as well.

    Funny if the Mickey Mouse voice actor did Craig s Bond.

    Noo, well not obligatory.
    I never watch them in spanish, Watching Bond in spanish is a huge crime big part of those movies charm is the English accent.

    But no its Moore's and Lazenby 's real voices which annoy me



  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Szonana wrote: »
    But no its Moore's and Lazenby 's real voices which annoy me
    Are you saying you preferred "Hilly"? I found that far more annoying that Laz's real voice.
  • Posts: 6,016

    I hate Bond "turning Japanese" in YOLT so much. It had its moment, that film (including glorious soundtrack and scenery) but then that bit came along and it was darn near a Monty Python moment for me. Terrible! And hard to get out of one's mind.

    If it had been a Monty Python moment, it would have been brilliant. There, it was just a Benny Hill moment.

    For me, it's "The Man with the Golden Gun", especailly Mary Goodnight and Lt. Yip. You know why all the actresses that get a Bond girl part say that their characters is not the bikini-clad bimbo ? That's because of her. As for Yip, his driving away without Bond is an indication, I think he could easily win the most incompetent assistant award. That is, if Mary Goodnight wasn't around.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Gerard wrote: »
    You know why all the actresses that get a Bond girl part say that their characters is not the bikini-clad bimbo ? That's because of her.
    I must say I respect and admire both Ms. Goodnight and Ms. Case's valuable contributions (in skimpy attire) to the Bond legend personally.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I find Laz's real voice quite bland. Much prefer George Baker's voice. He seems to have a bit of character.

    I get what people mean about Brosnan's sometimes "soft" sounding voice though.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    edited April 2016 Posts: 1,130
    bondjames wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    But no its Moore's and Lazenby 's real voices which annoy me
    Are you saying you preferred "Hilly"? I found that far more annoying that Laz's real voice.

    I mean their own not dubbed Bond voices which annoy me.


  • Posts: 26
    I hate QOS
  • Posts: 4,045
    Birdleson wrote: »
    vzok wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    It's because Dalton is a theatrical actor. Acting in the theatre and on screen are very different. On the theatre you want to make everything 'big'; whereas on screen because an audience can see you up close, it's all about subtlety. Dalton, certainly at that time, was an actor more suited to the stage in my opinion.

    But he was excellent in TLD. Very natural performance.

    I really do believe he made the mistake of 'trying too hard' in LTK. The grim nature of the film didn't help and neither did the abysmal script

    My only real problem is that Dalton is angry at everyone in the entire film and that makes him quite unlikable. Oh but the script had definite issues.

    But is Bond supposed to be likeable?

    Of course he isn't. Both Fleming and Connery have said in interviews that Bond is not supposed to be likable. And really he didn't become Mr. Nice Guy until Moore began to change his demeanor, around '77.

    Not if he is Fleming's Bond. Even Timothy Dalton's 007 is much kinder and caring than Bond from the novels.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    vzok wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    vzok wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    It's because Dalton is a theatrical actor. Acting in the theatre and on screen are very different. On the theatre you want to make everything 'big'; whereas on screen because an audience can see you up close, it's all about subtlety. Dalton, certainly at that time, was an actor more suited to the stage in my opinion.

    But he was excellent in TLD. Very natural performance.

    I really do believe he made the mistake of 'trying too hard' in LTK. The grim nature of the film didn't help and neither did the abysmal script

    My only real problem is that Dalton is angry at everyone in the entire film and that makes him quite unlikable. Oh but the script had definite issues.

    But is Bond supposed to be likeable?

    Of course he isn't. Both Fleming and Connery have said in interviews that Bond is not supposed to be likable. And really he didn't become Mr. Nice Guy until Moore began to change his demeanor, around '77.

    Not if he is Fleming's Bond. Even Timothy Dalton's 007 is much kinder and caring than Bond from the novels.
    IMO, not really. He's 'caring' if you're an attractive female or a long time friend. To all others he's an elitist prig. Very Fleming to me.
    ;)
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    The bit with Brosnan kissing Natalya after the train blows up is a bit cringeworthy in my opinion.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,163
    Just in case anyone questions my votes in the best kill elimination game, a character and scene that I loathe is the Dr.Kaufman one from TND. No disrespect to the late Vincent Schiavelli. He was a great character actor, and someone I enjoyed.
    But the character of Kaufman is all wrong too me. He's a buffoon. It's trying to be funny and serious in the same scene, it just doesn't work. At least to me. I know he's a popular character with many. I dislike that scene I think more than any other in the series. Including pretty much anything from DAD!
    :-O
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