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The Music of David Arnold.

MurdockMurdock The minus world
edited December 2011 in Music Posts: 16,361
While I know some on this forum hate him, I actually like what he as brought to the table. I don't like everything he has done but overall he's done a solid job.

S&S: Good cover album of some of the classics.
TND: An awesome way to start, good music, lots of the James Bond theme. :D
TWINE: Not as good as TND but still fun to listen too. (A bit too much techno)
DAD: I love the orchestral parts of this score but when the techno sounds start coming in it ruins it for me.
CR: Good ambiance and good action music. reminds me of the classic Barry.
QoS: I Like the score overall but there is a real lack of the James Bond theme. (And a missed opportunity to re-use the classic 007 theme.)

I think he's brought some good things to the franchise but He's lacking in some places.

What are your thoughts on David Arnold and do you think he can improve?
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Comments

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2011 Posts: 15,723
    TND : Good, but too much Bond theme
    TWINE : Good.
    DAD : His best. His trademark sound, and not copying Barry.
    CR : Abysmal. Random noise, basicly filler music for the 70 minutes of the soundtrack.
    QOS : Very good, finally showing some basic musical knowledge.
  • danookdanook
    Posts: 7
    S&S has some great tracks on it; the version of "Nobody Does It Better" on that album is my favorite version of that song.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,361
    danook wrote:
    S&S has some great tracks on it; the version of "Nobody Does It Better" on that album is my favorite version of that song.

    My favorite is the Space March instrumental.

  • bondbat007bondbat007
    Posts: 1,407
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    CR : Abysmal. Random noise, basicly filler music for the 70 minutes of the soundtrack.

    I'm not disagreeing with your opinion, but if you think his CR score is bad, then how can you like his QoS one at all? They are very similar in my opinion.

    Disclaimer- I like Arnold's scores, especially his CR score
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    bondbat007 wrote:
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    CR : Abysmal. Random noise, basicly filler music for the 70 minutes of the soundtrack.

    I'm not disagreeing with your opinion, but if you think his CR score is bad, then how can you like his QoS one at all? They are very similar in my opinion.

    Disclaimer- I like Arnold's scores, especially his CR score

    IMO his QOS score was the first one where he started showing some musical complexity... Almost every track in the CR score were just too simple and basic for my taste.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    ^
    I kind of have to agree with @DC007. The OST of CR had some great tracks on it but a lot of them are just 20-40 second pieces that don't do much for me.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Murdock wrote:
    QoS: I Like the score overall but there is a real lack of the James Bond theme. (And a missed opportunity to re-use the classic 007 theme.)

    the 007 theme is copyrighted to John Barry.. which is why Arnold can't use it... he's gone on record as to saying that he would love to use it - but can't - but also feels it's a track that if used should be done sparingly, highlighting Bond at his absolute best.... who knows - maybe it could make an appearance in Skyfall - we'll just have to wait and see..

    moving on....

    S&S - never really listened to it, so i can't comment

    TND - a mixed bag of good/decent stuff... the highlights for me are Paris & Bond, Kowloon Bay, and All In Day's Work.

    TWINE - for my personal taste, one of his best scores.. shows a little bit more depth than the TND score at times - a little less reliant on using the Bond theme every 5 seconds lol... highlights for me are Come In 007 Your Time Is Up, Access Denied, Elektra's Theme, and Body Double..

    DAD - it's alright, but I put this one in the weaker category.. it does have it's share of moments, but the over reliance of techno hits and some recycled music from TWINE kind of spoiled this one for me... highlights for me are Hovercraft Chase, Some Kind Of Hero, Whiteout, Iced Inc, Antonov.

    CR - a break through musically for Arnold in my opinion.. he really seems to start to stretch his sound out here - his previous efforts seemed to box themselves in at times by being too conservative.. here he starts to make strides to add depth to his score - like him making a conscious decision to not use the Bond theme until the very end, to keep in line with the theme of the story..... but i do agree with those above - there are too many tracks that are less than a minute long - could it have hurt to combine a few into one track? - as those ones really all run together anyway........ highlights for me are Blunt Instrument, Solange, Aston Montenegro, Stairwell Fight, Vesper, The End Of An Aston Martin, City Of Lovers, The Switch.

    QOS - building off his growth from CR, Arnold continues to show more diversity.... continuing once again, to not play it safe, but to expand his musical boundries.. while at times, this soundtrack falls into the same trap as CR's (with a lot of filler tracks) - it doesn't seem to take away anything by having too much.... highlights for me are Time To Get Out, The Palio, Bond in Haiti, Night At The Opera, Camille's Story, Oil Fields, Perla De Las Dunas.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    edited December 2011 Posts: 3,278
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    CR : Abysmal. Random noise, basicly filler music for the 70 minutes of the soundtrack.

    I wouldn't exactly call the following "random noise or filler music". I would call it making a near-perfect Bondscore to match the things going on onscreen:


  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,361
    HASEROT wrote:
    the 007 theme is copyrighted to John Barry.. which is why Arnold can't use it... he's gone on record as to saying that he would love to use it - but can't - but also feels it's a track that if used should be done sparingly, highlighting Bond at his absolute best.... who knows - maybe it could make an appearance in Skyfall - we'll just have to wait and see..

    I hope "007" does return in skyfall.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I listened to S&S a while back, and that was all it took. I found it to be absolute trash that ruined all the perfect Bond tracks that shouldn't be touched in the first place. Upon a second listen, my thoughts haven't changed, and I could barely get through the majority of the tracks without having a face-palm moment. Seriously, why would Arnold do such a thing to Bond songs that were perfect already, and that any attempt to cover them is a failing one? I understand why many hate Arnold so much. If he would cripple Bond music like this and ruin the songs of past why bring him on to do the Bond films?! #-o
  • MartinBondMartinBond Trying not to muck it up again
    Posts: 863
    I think He did a pretty good job with Iggy, that sounds quite good. Thunderball got a nice bombastic feel to it as well, but for the rest...
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,361
    Of the entire S&S album I liked the covers of.
    Diamonds are Forever
    Space March
    Thunderball
    Moonraker
    We Have All The Time in the World
    and OHMSS.
    the rest was a disaster. IMO
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Zekidk wrote:
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    CR : Abysmal. Random noise, basicly filler music for the 70 minutes of the soundtrack.

    I wouldn't exactly call the following "random noise or filler music". I would call it making a near-perfect Bondscore to match the things going on onscreen:

    As I said there is always a couple of brilliant tracks in every Arnold score, a few good tracks, and the rest if entirely forgettable, like 'CCTV', 'Access Denied'...

  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    TND: A good score, with some especially good music during the stealth ship scenes at the end.
    TWINE: Oddly enough, even if I were to have just viewed this film, I would have forgotten every track in the film. I think I liked the Thames chase the best, but I can't remember it at all.
    DAD: An okay soundtrack. Again, much of it I can't remember (I don't know what it is about TWINE and DAD's soundtracks, but unless I'm watching each film, I forget them entirely).
    CR: I love this soundtrack. Each scene has perfectly matching music, and very few disappointed. The chase musics, especially, are all good (no two chase themes sounded alike, which I like).
    QOS: I liked the action scores, but other than that... maybe not his best effort.
    GE2010: Though the music was principally done by Kevin Kiner (who I like for his Star Wars: The Clone Wars soundtracks), Arnold was still heavily involved, and you can tell by listening to the game. Its soundtrack sounds, for the most part, a lot like CR's, which I don't find a bad thing.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited December 2011 Posts: 16,361
    With GE2010 I liked a few tracks like the James Bond Theme remix and the main menu music but the rest was pretty much the same. It was unmemorable to me. I had a much better experience listening to the GE64 Score and GE Film Score while playing the game.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I think David Arnold gets a lot of undue flack from fans. Fair enough he's no John Barry but his music (IMO) has an energy to it that suits the often more fast paced modern films. Some of his scores are somewhat understated and suprisingly effective when put on top of the onscreen action. Take for instance the music used in the Dr Kaulfman sequence. It adds to the tense situation and sounds rather creepy and suspensful.

    My ranking:

    TND
    QoS
    CR
    DAD
    TWINE (I like it but I just think the others are better)
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Murdock wrote:
    With GE2010 I liked a few tracks like the James Bond Theme remix and the main menu music but the rest was pretty much the same. It was unmemorable to me. I had a much better experience listening to the GE64 Score and GE Film Score while playing the game.

    I do prefer the GE64 score, but I like the GE2010 score, too. And, in the first few levels, Arnold/Kiner insert a few nods to that original game score, which I like (they're subtle, and you can only hear them if nothing else in the area is making noise, but they're there).
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,361
    Agent007391 wrote:
    I do prefer the GE64 score, but I like the GE2010 score, too. And, in the first few levels, Arnold/Kiner insert a few nods to that original game score, which I like (they're subtle, and you can only hear them if nothing else in the area is making noise, but they're there).

    How DaltonCraig007 feels about the CR score is how I feel about the GE2010 score. I mean aside from the JB theme, Main Menu, and the fight with 006. it sounds like generic stealth music. Part of the charm of the original GE64 was the Music, with this it was a massive letdown.

    My Ranking of Arnold's Scores.

    TND: First and Best (I don't mind an overuse of the James Bond theme...I LOVE IT.)
    DAD: Loud, Exciting and Fun. (Techno may be annoying but that's why I have a sound filter to mask it out and enjoy the orchestra.)
    QoS: Great Stuff...needs more Bond theme.
    CR: Same with QoS
    TWINE: It packs some solid punches but most of it isn't memorable. IMO.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    time for arnold to give someone else a go. he's not bad but not great either.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I would like to see John Williams score a Bond (but, then again, I'm a Star Wars maniac).
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    why not williams but i bet he charges too much
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited December 2011 Posts: 348
    bondbat007 wrote:
    I'm not disagreeing with your opinion, but if you think his CR score is bad, then how can you like his QoS one at all? They are very similar in my opinion.

    Not at all. You can feel Marc Forster's influence on QOS, and because of that it's got much more personality, thematic material, colour and restraint than CR. The action music's considerably more focused too, in the spirit of Barry, as opposed to aimless and cluttered cue like the Miami chase or stairwell fight.
    Agent007391 wrote:
    CR: I love this soundtrack. Each scene has perfectly matching music, and very few disappointed. The chase musics, especially, are all good (no two chase themes sounded alike, which I like).

    That's my problem with. It's all over the place. Barry always had clear themes that stitched the score together. Arnold just doodles on his MIDI keyboard, records it, and gets Nic Raine to orchestrate it into full score.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    interesting comments. i think in some respects QoS is a better, tighter film than CR, which was too long (miami airport scene is totally pointless and brossaesque).
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited December 2011 Posts: 16,361
    During the Miami Airport scene where the Skyfleet is revealed, the music cue reminds me of Classic Barry. I love that part.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Arnold is just okay with me, not spectacular, but not horrible either. Some cues stick out in my memory, but quite frankly, John Barry's cues stick out more to me. Classics like Necros Attacks, Snow Job/He's Dangerous, 007 and Counting, Let's Go Get 'Em, and Chateau Fight stick out the most. That's the thing with Arnold. Some of his cues just don't stay with me long term.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,361
    00Beast wrote:
    Arnold is just okay with me, not spectacular, but not horrible either. Some cues stick out in my memory, but quite frankly, John Barry's cues stick out more to me. Classics like Necros Attacks, Snow Job/He's Dangerous, 007 and Counting, Let's Go Get 'Em, and Chateau Fight stick out the most. That's the thing with Arnold. Some of his cues just don't stay with me long term.

    Agreed. However the stuff Arnold did that sticks out to me are. Hovercraft Chase, Ice Palace Car Chase, TND-Bike Chase, Caviar Factory, Sword Fight, Night at the Opera and African Rundown only to name a few.

  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2011 Posts: 4,399
    Shark wrote:
    That's my problem with. It's all over the place. Barry always had clear themes that stitched the score together. Arnold just doodles on his MIDI keyboard, records it, and gets Nic Raine to orchestrate it into full score.

    i found more of a central theme spread out over the score for CR than I did QOS personally...

    in Arnold's score for CR, you'll find the melody to "You Know My Name" and "City Of Lovers" used frequently and/or musical cues to those tracks sprinkled through the score... it's about the most thematic of Arnold's scores that he has done... your right about the action scenes though.. but as i've said about Arnold in the past, his music works best when watching the film..... by itself, it's pretty average.

    while QOS's score pushes the boundaries a little further - I find that one thematically all over the place... if they (the producers) would've let Arnold have his way with the title theme again, like they had with You Know My Name - it's quite possible there could've been a more unifying theme musically... in my opinion, though the QOS soundtrack is good, it's without a center to fall back on.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Arnold has the tendency to transcribe everything that happens on screen into his scores... I hate it when Bond punches someone or jumps between buildings the music puts the emphasis on the punch and the jump... you'd almost expect Arnold to make the horns play quiet notes at every step Bond take if he'd tip-toe in a room. Barry's music was always disconnected from the action, giving the scenes an atmosphere.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    Arnold has the tendency to transcribe everything that happens on screen into his scores... I hate it when Bond punches someone or jumps between buildings the music puts the emphasis on the punch and the jump... you'd almost expect Arnold to make the horns play quiet notes at every step Bond take if he'd tip-toe in a room. Barry's music was always disconnected from the action, giving the scenes an atmosphere.

    That's a very good point. Never thought of it that way before.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    Barry's music was always disconnected from the action, giving the scenes an atmosphere.

    That disconnection, however, takes me away from the score. I can actually remember a few Arnold scores after watching the films, whereas the Barry scores just fade from my mind a few minutes after watching those films.

    And Monty Norman should have been given more of a chance.
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