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Gunbarrel

IcebreakerIcebreaker
edited March 2011 in Skyfall Posts: 26
I remember being paranoid over whether or not the gunbarrel intro would return in Bond 22 and despite many people calming me down and claiming that "there's no way it won't be coming back", Quantum of Solace still opened without one. I know there was one at the very end of the film, but I was still very disappointed at such a lame attempt to fix what isn't broken. It seemed to me as if it was shoved down there so audiences would not walk out of the theater on a downbeat note.

The gunbarrel must come back! Not trying to sound like a picky fanboy or anything.
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Comments

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited March 2011 Posts: 13,355
    I'm sure it will @Icebreaker. Afterall Bond is now Bond, so no reason for it not too. It's also of course the 50th anniversary...

    I'm sure there's another this discussing this somewhere. I'll see what I can dig up so this can be locked.

    Welcome to MI6 by the way!
  • IcebreakerIcebreaker
    Posts: 26
    Thank you, I was already part of the old MI6 forums under the same name. Yes, the "Bond is already Bond" explanation is reassuring, but then again that's exactly what people would tell me last time. :D

    I looked through this new forum and saw no gunbarrel thread, are we still counting the ones from the previous board?
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Yes, any thread we want to continue we can, so if there's nothing else this gun barrel will say - having looked I can't find anything.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited March 2011 Posts: 4,399
    i say it returns... if the producers want to return to having a more traditional Bond film, then i say it has to be brought back to the beginning...

    technically it was at the beginning of CR - but they just wanted to stylize it, and incorporate it into how Bond got his 00 status...

    i admit, i was let down a little when it wasn't at the start of QOS, but now after some time, i view those films as kind of one giant movie, and having the gunbarrel at the start of QOS - would signify the beginning of a new story... so in that regard, i like how they threw it at the end of the movie, as a bookend for the 2 films - not to mention that the scene with Dryden in CR's PTS, mirrors (in a way) the end of QOS where Bond confronts Yusef..
  • dragonskydragonsky
    Posts: 2,491
    i hope it returns,and i think it will return.for me in was surprising to see the gunbarell at the end QoS
  • BondBond
    edited March 2011 Posts: 503
    I think the reason it was at the end of QOS was because it was the completion of the rebooted Bond's journey into being a MI6 secret agent. From now on, I think you can be assured the gunbarrel will appear, and be at the beginning.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    I think the producers wanted to give the series a fresh start, after the Bond formula became tiresome during the Brosnan years. Having it incorporated into the opening scene in CR and bookending QOS change the formula up a bit. But certainly with the 50th coming up as mentioned it's time to bring the GB back in it's true original form. My only wish is they class it up and not try to modernize the look and music too much as they did in GE-->DAD. I want to hear the classic 007 theme--guitars and horns, and no techno jabs.
  • IcebreakerIcebreaker
    Posts: 26
    I loved the design they used for the gunbarrel in Quantum of Solace, despite it being played on fast foward. Didn't mind the Brosnan ones either with the exception of that bullet in DAD, what the...
  • BondBond
    Posts: 503
    Quoting Icebreaker: I loved the design they used for the gunbarrel in Quantum of Solace, despite it being played on fast foward.
    Agree. The design was okay... a bit CGI-heavy but they have the right idea. Definitely need to slow it down though, the speed issue makes it the worst gunbarrel to date.
  • JobeGDGJobeGDG
    edited March 2011 Posts: 107
    Quoting JBFan626: But certainly with the 50th coming up as mentioned it's time to bring the GB back in it's true original form. My only wish is they class it up and not try to modernize the look and music too much as they did in GE-->DAD. I want to hear the classic 007 theme
    I couldn't disagree more. The gun barrel music has, for the majority of the Bond films (there are a few disappointing exceptions, of course), been as unique as an individual signature for each film. I'd hate to see that admittedly tiny aspect of the franchise disposed of when the gun barrel returns to the status quo. Almost every gun barrel twists the Bond theme, at least a little bit; in my book that's what makes the gun barrel worthwhile.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    blockquote>Quoting JobeGDG: Almost every gun barrel twists the Bond theme, at least a little bit; in my book
    that's what makes the gun barrel worthwhile.


    Sure...but It's more subtle than that. Look at the GB's from say OP, AVTAK or TLD. All of those had more traditional GB music arrangements--no fancy electronics the way the Brosnan era ones did. All I'm saying is you can have a modern, stylized take on the classic theme without going overboard with unnecessary flourishes. Also, CG is ok, as long as it doesn't look like CG; which I felt was especially apparent in QOS
  • CoH_GHOST_007CoH_GHOST_007
    Posts: 303
    I actually liked the gun barrol in QoS and i thought it was a nice touch having it at the end.
    I want them to keep the gun barrol at the beginning though, but i want them to keep the QoS one, i thought it showed Bond's toughness and that he isn't afraid.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    I didn't like the QOS gun barrel at all. Craig's walk annoys me, it's done too fast and whatever reason they may have had for putting it at the end of the film, I'd preferred if the film had opened with it. The gun barrel for me is a holy part of the series. I don't mind the 'origin of the GB' moment in CR but I would only have indulged the 'misplacing' of the GB once. So please, for heaven's sake, let's quit the artistic douchebaggery and give the GB its proper place again in Bond 23.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I feel the same way Dimi. It doesn't matter whether the tone is light or gritty, whether the film features a rookie Bond or an experienced Bond, the gun barrel should always remain at the beginig, IMO. It was never intended to stand for anything else other than it being an iconic and instantly recognisable way to open each film.
  • JobeGDGJobeGDG
    edited March 2011 Posts: 107
    Quoting JBFan626: Sure...but It's more subtle than that. Look at the GB's from say OP, AVTAK or TLD.
    Eh. Barry was just going through the motions with his later gun barrels if you ask me. Where you see subtlety, I see, in this particular instance, a lack of inspiration. Hell, the TLD gun barrel is basically just the MR and OP gun barrels put together. I want to see some distinctive instrumentation, like we got with OHMSS (though obviously not the same as that since it would then cease to be distinctive), or a rearranging of the familiar elements à la LTK or TND!

    DAD ditched the Brosnan template for the gun barrel music (the vamp into the end of the James Bond Theme) for the sake of an anniversary celebration, and David Arnold delivered the most garish gun barrel cue to date—and not just because of the electronics. The percussion loops were bad, yes, but so was the instrumentation and, frankly, the entire concept of anniversary-based pandering.

    I mentioned a "Brosnan template." Another thing I love about the gun barrel cues is that each actor—save Dalton thanks to a combination of never having a repeat composer and Barry's indifference towards the franchise at that point—has their own gun barrel cue template that's generally followed during their tenure (though ignored by one-off composers); a distinction that musically keys the cue to the lead actor. Connery's is the Bond theme straight up, and frankly, that should be reserved for him by any long-term Bond composer; Lazenby got the synth; Moore got the bouncier opening vamp and strings replacing the twangy guitar; Brosnan got the vamp directly into the theme's finale. As for Craig, well, maybe if his gun barrels could sit still for a minute or two we'd get something special for him too. But if we finally get the gun barrel up front again and the music just throws the original theme at us, I'd be very, very, disappointed.

    Okay, rant over.
  • BondBond
    Posts: 503
    Does anyone else think that the whole gunbarrel sequence was initially intended for Dr. No only? The way the white dot fits in with the "O" in the "Dr. No" text certainly makes it seems so.
  • JobeGDGJobeGDG
    edited March 2011 Posts: 107
    Quoting Bond: Does anyone else think that the whole gunbarrel sequence was initially intended for Dr. No only? The way the white dot fits in with the "O" in the "Dr. No" text certainly makes it seems so.
    That never occurred to me, but it does seem feasible.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    I think it was liked so much, along with Sylvia Trench, that both were brought back for the following film. Except the gun barrel stayed all these years and Sylvia didn't.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    Good points Jobe, and I think we are really in agreement here. TND is by far the strongest music cue of the Brosnan era, and especially compared to both TWINE and DAD. Again, perhaps it's just the techno bits I dislike, which does make them "garish". I don't however, see any obvious anniversary pandering, but rather legacy smearing going on in DAD. What I'm going for and what I would like to see is the next GB to have the essence of the original but with a fresh take. To me, the GE, TWINE and DAD veer too far off in adding modern electronic window dressings to the original theme than is tasteful. I think TND does strike a nice balance though.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    i had an awful dream last night, that the new Bond film did not open with the gun barrel - and the opening credits were nothing but a generic score with the movie posters from all previous 22 films flying towards the screen (i guess for the 50th anniversary)... all i can remember, is that it was dead silent in the theater... i started laughing because it looked so damn horrid - and then people started to get up and walk out...

    towards the end, i recall figuring out that it was just a dream - and breathed a sigh of relief... and then woke up...
  • goldeneyeOO7goldeneyeOO7
    edited March 2011 Posts: 16
    Quoting MajorDSmythe: I feel the same way Dimi. It doesn't matter whether the tone is light or gritty, whether the film features a rookie Bond or an experienced Bond, the gun barrel should always remain at the beginning, IMO. It was never intended to stand for anything else other than it being an iconic and instantly recognizable way to open each film.
    ^ I totally agree with both of you. It's supposed to mark the start of a new adventure for Bond and the audience. Nothing more. I remember feeling disappointed when QOS didn't open with one. It didn't feel like a Bond movie at all to me. Same with CR. I may not like entries like DAD of DAF, but at least they tried to capture the Bond movie atmosphere.
  • BondBond
    Posts: 503
    ... did you just arbitrarily link Dimi's name to a Wikipedia article? :-))
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    David Arnold has always said, which is true, is that the great thing with the gun barrel is, whilst what it that it be best the opening 10 seconds of the best Bond film ever. It just gives out that kind of feeling.
  • BondBond
    Posts: 503
    Quoting Samuel001: whilst what it that it be best the opening
    lol wut?
  • goldeneyeOO7goldeneyeOO7
    Posts: 16
    Quoting Bond: ... did you just arbitrarily link Dimi's name to a Wikipedia article?
    Wow...that was not intentional. I have a Firefox add-on that links things to wikipedia...guess it thought Dimi's name was important lol. Sorry about that. Edit applied.
  • AgentJM7AgentJM7
    Posts: 421
    The gunbarrel should definitely come back. It should have a variation of the Bond theme, preferably where it kicks in after the shot is fired. IT SHOULD BE AT THE VERY BEGINNING. Ah, it would be so good!
  • saunderssaunders Living in a world of avarice and deceit
    Posts: 987
    Much as I love CR, I HATE the fact that it has no traditional gunbarrel sequence at the start of the film, I have yet to meet someone who thinks this improves the film, and why was it done? According to the producers it was because at the start of the film Bond is not yet a 00, fair enough he wasn't (for all of three minutes) but he was still James Bond, a British agent sent on a double assassination mission by M, who by the nature of the task had clearly considered this to be his enrolling/first mission as a 00. It's not like he spent the first hour and a half of the film as a painter and decorator in Swindon! Also while on the subject, who decided the gunbarrel sequence represented a fully qualified 00 agent anyway, as far as most people are concerned the sequence represents the start of a 'Bond film' and that's all, it doesn't represent any sort of plot narrative for the actual film itself, you wouldn't find people watching GF suddenly scratching their heads because one moment Bond is shooting someone and the next he's climbing out the sea with a duck on his head! So the reason that CR doesn't have a gunbarrel sequence because Bond is 'apparently' not yet Bond is ludicrous and for the record CR is not only definatley a Bond film but also a very good Bond film!
    I want the traditional sequence at the start of any EON Bond film regardless of it's quality or plot, I don't want it in the middle or at the end or even shooting it's bullets out of the screen...is that to much to ask. Why are EON so aggressively litigious and protective of their franchise if they're not even willing to respect and value their heritage.
    I hope the gunbarrel sequence will return in Bond 23 but it matters little now that Babs and MGW have effectively ruined what had been a 40 year old cinematic tradition.

    Rant over! [-(
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Quoting goldeneyeOO7: Wow...that was not intentional. I have a Firefox add-on that links things to wikipedia...guess it thought Dimi's name was important lol. Sorry about that. Edit applied.
    I like your software. :X
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    I still don't understand why they gave a meaning to the gunbarrel. The gunbarrel, while being iconic, is basicly the most meaningless Bond element of the franchise. I doubt the Bond community since 1962 wanted to know what the gunbarrel could possibly represent. I don't see how the gunbarrel, a sequence lasting about 20 seconds, could possibly warrant an explanation. I mean, most Bond fans love the gunbarrel opening to a Bond outing, and I'm sure they didn't spend hours wondering what it could possibly represent. To me the gunbarrel sequence is entirely meaningless, but a core element of the franchise that never needed a tempering with.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Quoting Bond:

    Quoting Samuel001: whilst what it that it be best the opening
    lol wut?
    I quite agree. Let's see if I can retype this with it making sense...

    David Arnold has always said, which is true, is that the great thing with the gun barrel is, whilst watching it, it could be the best opening 10 seconds of the greatest Bond film ever. It just gives out that kind of feeling.
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