The June 2016 UK Referendum on EU Membership: [UPDATE] What kind of BREXIT do YOU want?

1515254565762

Comments

  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    The Populist Party was an American political party in the 1890s that fought for the interests of farmers and workers. Later the term came to mean someone who represented the view of the masses.

    That's an interesting piece of information. Over on another forum in the eyes of a rabid EU supporter who resists all attempts to absorb of even acknowledge other viewpoints & is very quick to accuse populist equals nationalist equals fascist equals racist.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    You find those people everywhere. Brainwashed by spin.
  • Posts: 4,617
    If they ignore the referendum, its not a referendum. The result is binding. We have a constitution built on convention and that convention is built on trust. Thankfully, those within Parliament on all sides understand what a referendum is and the horrendous constitutional crisis that would hit us if the result was ignored. You can have 5 million marking down Whitehall, it will not change the fact the 52% is a majority.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Perhaps in the next referendum, there'll only be one box to tick ! :))
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited July 2016 Posts: 45,489
    patb wrote: »
    The result is binding.

    It isn t.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Cameron had his fingers crossed behind his back, bloody loopholes :D
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    edited July 2016 Posts: 299
    patb wrote: »
    If they ignore the referendum, its not a referendum. The result is binding.

    Referendums are not legally binding, so legally the Government can ignore the results; for example, even if the result of a pre-legislative referendum were a majority of "No" for a proposed law, Parliament could pass it anyway, because parliament is sovereign.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_Kingdom

    Is there any language you want me to translate this into? Simple English? Kiswahili? It helps a great deal if you actually understand the legal basis of the point you try to argue.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    It's true that the result is not binding.

    They may try to wiggle out of this one but they've so far said they won't. If they do it in an obvious way, it will be quite a blow to UK credibility globally in my view. The optics won't look good.

    There are less obvious ways to do it though, and I'm curious to see if any will come about in the next year or so.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Time for another Royal Wedding to distract everyone. ;)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Or a terrorist attack.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299
    General election will be about pretty much nothing else. Where and how from here, what to aim for, what to expect, what to fear. It will be down to the next government what measures to take. If the referendum were sacrosanct it would be legally binding. It isn't and for good reason. What the government makes of it is entirely up to them. Both big parties are already damaged, can't get much worse now.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    We could meet in the middle, a big terrorist wedding ? :D
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 4,617
    OK, there is confusion here re the difference between binding by statute and binding by convention, I could bore you re the three sources of our constitution (statute, convention and case law) but I will save you that. It is not binding by statute but it is binding by convention. And I hope that does not need translating :-)
    A referendum is when Parliament defers its sovereignty to the people on one issue and the convention is that it follows that decision. It is impossible to have a referendum that is not executed. If it is not executed, it is not a referendum, It is an opinion poll.
    It is the binding nature of convention that sets our constitution apart from many many other nations and it is built on mutual trust by those in power. Something pretty amazing. There are those who lobby for a written constitution but, at the moment, convention makes up a solid cornerstone and cannot be undermined.
    There is no reason why you should believe this but there are plenty of good books out there on UK constitutional law.
  • What annoys me is young people who with deepest of respect have no f**king idea what life was like before the slow creep of EU influence that has happened in the last 15 years, so to attack the older generation for their views is shameful.

    As to the result, any government who would reverse an historic referendum because a few thousand people march down the street waving banners & listening to buffoons like Geldorf, would loose all credibility & most likely be gone come the next election.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    What annoys me is young people who with deepest of respect have no f**king idea what life was like before the slow creep of EU influence that has happened in the last 15 years, so to attack the older generation for their views is shameful.

    As to the result, any government who would reverse an historic referendum because a few thousand people march down the street waving banners & listening to buffoons like Geldorf, would loose all credibility & most likely be gone come the next election.

    Yes it's a warped take on democracy indeed. 'We respect your right to vote but only if you vote for us'. Having seen news footage of this protest (I wonder who's organising these events?) I wasn't impressed by the calibre of a large proportion of those taking part.

    At the end of the day the British public was asked a question, they gave an answer. End of story. That they cannot/will not accept that speaks far more about them than it does the silent majority who have voted to reclaim British sovereignty.




  • Posts: 5,994
    I don't know what to make of this. Is this a joke or what ?

    theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/01/pounded-by-the-pound-brexit-erotic-novel-chuck-tingle

    :-O
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    There will be an election, so if people want to stay in the EU, vote LibDem ! They
    love the EU and would never leave no matter what the referendum result was. :))
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    @Cambell2 Norm=something that is usual, typical, or standard.

    You're now telling me it isn't usual to go on protest marches before a referendum is held, but after? So to be sure your voice isn't heard in time? Yes, there may have been protests, we have them all the time here. Couple of people standing in front of parliament. But those are so common you tend to ignore them. You have them as well I know from the numerous visits I made to the UK.

    If they don't follow the refrendum, you're in deep trouble, making the shism that has come afore now a lot deeper. If you want to destroy your economy and political system, that's the way to go. Inciting social unrest. Now I've learned pro-EU people indeed seem to stop at nothing, but warning for war and then steering towards it yourself is a bit... well....
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    edited July 2016 Posts: 299
    .

    If they don't follow the refrendum, you're in deep trouble, making the shism that has come afore now a lot deeper. If you want to destroy your economy and political system, that's the way to go. Inciting social unrest. Now I've learned pro-EU people indeed seem to stop at nothing, but warning for war and then steering towards it yourself is a bit... well....


    We are already in deep trouble. Thank you for pointing it out for us again, as a foreigner that's truly kind of you. Trust that, should we ever feel the need to hear foreign advice somebody will doubtlessly think of your kind offer. Until then it's perhaps a bit contradictory in a discussion that's centred about unwelcome foreign interference to become overly vocal about it. As a foreigner I mean. If you catch my drift. ;)

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    The protests were in London.

    London voted overwhelmingly to stay. It's also the centre of the financial district, which perhaps has the most to lose in the Brexit scenario. As I said earlier, that's not entirely a bad thing for the long run of the country, although the implications for the short term are discomforting.

    At the end of the day, London is not the entire UK, or even the whole of England for that matter. In fact, to some extent Brexit arguably was as much a protest against London as against Brussels.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The City of London is a separate county within Greater London, with privileges like no one else, granted by the Crown. You could say it isn t even a part of the UK. Politically speaking.
  • Posts: 140
    The City of London is a separate county within Greater London, with privileges like no one else, granted by the Crown. You could say it isn t even a part of the UK. Politically speaking.

    Illuminati confirmed.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Privileged isn t the same as illuminated.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299
    What annoys me is young people who with deepest of respect have no f**king idea what life was like before the slow creep of EU influence that has happened in the last 15 years, so to attack the older generation for their views is shameful.

    As to the result, any government who would reverse an historic referendum because a few thousand people march down the street waving banners & listening to buffoons like Geldorf, would loose all credibility & most likely be gone come the next election.

    Mind you, I don't say that it should be ignored, that would be disastrous. I merely point out that some apparently aren't exactly on the same page about this referendum. That's why the next election should in my view come as soon as possible. What government there is now is unlikely to be a very stable affair in any case. May will have the support of her party for now. That's going to change with each month the process takes.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Campbell2 wrote: »
    @Cambell2 Norm=something that is usual, typical, or standard.

    You're now telling me it isn't usual to go on protest marches before a referendum is held, but after? So to be sure your voice isn't heard in time? Yes, there may have been protests, we have them all the time here. Couple of people standing in front of parliament. But those are so common you tend to ignore them. You have them as well I know from the numerous visits I made to the UK.

    If they don't follow the refrendum, you're in deep trouble, making the shism that has come afore now a lot deeper. If you want to destroy your economy and political system, that's the way to go. Inciting social unrest. Now I've learned pro-EU people indeed seem to stop at nothing, but warning for war and then steering towards it yourself is a bit... well....


    We are already in deep trouble. Thank you for pointing it out for us again, as a foreigner that's truly kind of you. Trust that, should we ever feel the need to hear foreign advice somebody will doubtlessly think of your kind offer. Until then it's perhaps a bit contradictory in a discussion that's centred about unwelcome foreign interference to become overly vocal about it. As a foreigner I mean. If you catch my drift. ;)

    I thought you were pro EU, I'm just doing what Brussels has been doing since the seventies: pointing out the obvious and telling you what to do. So as a pro-EU voter you should be thankfull! :-P

    The economy is still doing fine, stockmarkets have been going up fast to make good the losses over the Brexit vote, the French are claiming not to go after your companies. All in all, you shouldn't be too worried. The only real crisis you've got is the political backstabbing one. I hope none wil lnow for Gove. Allthough the remain chapter might want that: he's been backstabbing so much he might as well stab the whole Leave movement in one go.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    edited July 2016 Posts: 299
    Campbell2 wrote: »
    @Cambell2 Norm=something that is usual, typical, or standard.

    You're now telling me it isn't usual to go on protest marches before a referendum is held, but after? So to be sure your voice isn't heard in time? Yes, there may have been protests, we have them all the time here. Couple of people standing in front of parliament. But those are so common you tend to ignore them. You have them as well I know from the numerous visits I made to the UK.

    If they don't follow the refrendum, you're in deep trouble, making the shism that has come afore now a lot deeper. If you want to destroy your economy and political system, that's the way to go. Inciting social unrest. Now I've learned pro-EU people indeed seem to stop at nothing, but warning for war and then steering towards it yourself is a bit... well....


    We are already in deep trouble. Thank you for pointing it out for us again, as a foreigner that's truly kind of you. Trust that, should we ever feel the need to hear foreign advice somebody will doubtlessly think of your kind offer. Until then it's perhaps a bit contradictory in a discussion that's centred about unwelcome foreign interference to become overly vocal about it. As a foreigner I mean. If you catch my drift. ;)

    I thought you were pro EU, I'm just doing what Brussels has been doing since the seventies: pointing out the obvious and telling you what to do. So as a pro-EU voter you should be thankfull! :-P

    The economy is still doing fine, stockmarkets have been going up fast to make good the losses over the Brexit vote, the French are claiming not to go after your companies. All in all, you shouldn't be too worried. The only real crisis you've got is the political backstabbing one. I hope none wil lnow for Gove. Allthough the remain chapter might want that: he's been backstabbing so much he might as well stab the whole Leave movement in one go.


    As a Scot I appreciate your campaigning though I can't help wondering what kind of a stake you have in the matter? As a foreigner speaking of social unrest in the UK? Accusing protesters of undemocratic intentions?

    Such concern is rare these days and quite frankly heartwarming. Only it also sounds just a wee bit false and duplicitous. Makes me think of a song me dad used to sing

    'Your story is so touching, but it sounds just like a lie'

    Just so you know what I'm telling you, 'friend'. ;)
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    The City of London is a separate county within Greater London, with privileges like no one else, granted by the Crown. You could say it isn t even a part of the UK. Politically speaking.

    Maybe they think that sort privilege isn't enough. Perhaps government should double the worth of the vote to the people from the City, and the rest should have their vote resized to 1/2.

    I find these protests rather fascinating. The middle and upper class protesting against the working masses. Almost like a comedy sketch.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    It reminds me of Alan Partridge, to misquote him.....

    " Stop getting voting wrong ! " :))
  • Posts: 140
    Privileged isn t the same as illuminated.

    Defo confirmed now on the forums.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Campbell2 wrote: »
    Campbell2 wrote: »
    @Cambell2 Norm=something that is usual, typical, or standard.

    You're now telling me it isn't usual to go on protest marches before a referendum is held, but after? So to be sure your voice isn't heard in time? Yes, there may have been protests, we have them all the time here. Couple of people standing in front of parliament. But those are so common you tend to ignore them. You have them as well I know from the numerous visits I made to the UK.

    If they don't follow the refrendum, you're in deep trouble, making the shism that has come afore now a lot deeper. If you want to destroy your economy and political system, that's the way to go. Inciting social unrest. Now I've learned pro-EU people indeed seem to stop at nothing, but warning for war and then steering towards it yourself is a bit... well....


    We are already in deep trouble. Thank you for pointing it out for us again, as a foreigner that's truly kind of you. Trust that, should we ever feel the need to hear foreign advice somebody will doubtlessly think of your kind offer. Until then it's perhaps a bit contradictory in a discussion that's centred about unwelcome foreign interference to become overly vocal about it. As a foreigner I mean. If you catch my drift. ;)

    I thought you were pro EU, I'm just doing what Brussels has been doing since the seventies: pointing out the obvious and telling you what to do. So as a pro-EU voter you should be thankfull! :-P

    The economy is still doing fine, stockmarkets have been going up fast to make good the losses over the Brexit vote, the French are claiming not to go after your companies. All in all, you shouldn't be too worried. The only real crisis you've got is the political backstabbing one. I hope none wil lnow for Gove. Allthough the remain chapter might want that: he's been backstabbing so much he might as well stab the whole Leave movement in one go.


    As a Scot I appreciate your campaigning though I can't help wondering what kind of a stake you have in the matter? As a foreigner speaking of social unrest in the UK? Accusing protesters of undemocratic intentions?

    Such concern is rare these days and quite frankly heartwarming. Only it also sounds just a wee bit false and duplicitous. Makes me think of a song me dad used to sing

    'Your story is so touching, but it sounds just like a lie'

    Just so you know what I'm telling you, 'friend'. ;)

    Well it's kind of you to put it like that. First and foremost, I'm not campaigning at all. Why would I? It's your country and moreover, the referendum is in the past, so it makes little sense. Second, I'm not accusing any of your lovely protesters of anything, other then an odd sense of timing. Again I'd have thought the common sense thing to do is make your voice heard before an election/ referendum. As it is, in my view, more effective. But considering the number of people protesting this 'sense'may not be as 'common' as I thought.

    Considering the unrest: I may have voiced my slight preference for the Brexit, as I'd hoped it would then be clear to the EU politicians democratic reforms are long overdue in the EU. However this does not mean I want the EU to 'wither and die'. We have a lot to lose, as the Dutch, if things go downhill in the UK. Even with the UK out of the EU. Just as an example, ever heard of Royal DUTCH Shell? The Royal part isn't yours, it's ours.

    Somehow you seem to think that there's only one way to the future and you missed it. I think you're wrong and there are many ways. But looking back and beeing all grumpy because things didn't go your way isn't going to help.

    But I get it, you prefer to make things personal, as I'm obviously the new Blofeld having preffered the 'wrong' side in your eyes.
This discussion has been closed.