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Roger Moore...in Diamonds are Forever or The Living Daylights?

Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
edited September 2011 in Bond Movies Posts: 4,813
I touched on this notion briefly in the 'Ultimate Bond Timeline' thread (http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/194/your-ultimate-bond-timeline#Item_11) and thought it deserved more discussion...

In that thread I had mentioned that the movie 'could have' worked, provided Roger played his age, rather than acting like a 'young Bond'. Having watched Living Daylights recently- I was pleased to find only a minor few details that would have made the casting of Roger Moore impossible.
Bond in Living Daylights doesn't engage that much in age restricted physical stuff- in most of the action, he's shooting or driving. Yes the PTS would have needed tweaking, and the fight with Necros on the plane would have been laughable with an 'old man'. That dude that played Necros could probably wipe the floor with Roger in real life, lol.
As far as Bond's sex appeal, the part when he's 'picked up' by Felix's girls would have been laughable. They'd have to tone down the romance with Kara- unless they had an older actress.
But otherwise, everything Bond does in TLD could have technically been done by Moore!

I can easily picture Moore on the cello case (that's SO Roger Moore, lol) sniping at the beginning (would have been awesome, and a first for Moore, if I'm not mistaken). I hear originally, the confrontation between Bond and Gogol (in place of Pushkin) depicted the two discussing the situation over champagne; I would have loved to have seen Moore vs Gogol, in the same hard style as Dalton vs Pushkin! Even the 'final battle' with Whittaker wasn't anything Moore couldn't have handled!

To conclude, of course I'm glad we got Dalton when we did (he's my favorite) but I can't help but get a little sad when I hear Roger's dislike for generally everything about AVTAK. His last movie should have been something he's proud of (in reality, Octopussy. But it's fun to imagine)

What are your thoughts? Could a 'mature Bond' have made up for AVTAK and helped Moore end with a GREAT final movie?
I personally don't have a problem with Bond's age.... as long as he acts his age!
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Comments

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,584
    I think you highlighted enough reasons why Rog couldn't have done TLD.
    The pts and climax are great sequences and the growing relationship of the two leads is genuinely touching. Without all of these elements TLD would not work.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    If Moore had done TLD, it's logical he'd also have been asked to do Bond 16 in '89, thus being the only Bond actor of the 80's. Of course, that means Dalton would never have been Bond. But it would have eased the transition from Moore to Bond #5. Even after 16 years or Moore and 9 movies, the 6 years hiatus due to legal problem would mean the audience be more open to a new actor and direction, as the Mooremania would have calmed down after 5+ years since the last outing.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    Quoting Master_Dahark: But otherwise, everything Bond does in TLD could have technically been done by
    Moore
    I think you meant, by Moore's stuntman. Moore did at least 3 films to many, it would have been ridiculous for him to have done TLD as well.
  • RogueThunderballRogueThunderball
    Posts: 306
    Disregarding his age, I don't think Moore could have pulled off TLD. One scene that I love from TLD is when Bond gets Pushkin on his knees and it seems as though he's going to kill him, execution style. This moment really brings back the coldness of Bond and I don't think Moore could have pulled it off.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    edited March 2011 Posts: 4,813
    Quoting MajorDSmythe: I think you meant, by Moore's stuntman. Moore did at least 3 films to many, it would have been ridiculous for him to have done TLD as well.

    touché ;-)
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    Oh screw it--- Roger Moore in Quantum of Solace! lol j/k
    In an alternate timeline, I would rather Moore finished with Octopussy- that should have been his last movie to be proud of!
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    Ah, alternate timelines. In that case, i've have to cast David Warbeck as Bond from 1974 to 1988.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    Alright, let's do some Bond fiction.

    Moore ending in TLD in 1987. Who'd be the new Bond in 1989? Given that Brosnan would have been done with Remington Steel, he'd have debuted in Bond 16.

    Problem - Legal problems halting the franchise until 1995 = Brosnan would be the new Lazenby, doing on 1 film. No way would EON and Brosnan waited until 1995 to make a 2nd outing.

    New Bond in 1995. Brosnan being done, who is going to be Bond now? Timothy Dalton? Liam Neeson? With a more serious, Fleming-esque actor, Bond #5 would have lasted longer than 2002. Let's pick Dalton... He'd have ended in 2007.

    New recast... Maybe not enough time to make a new film by 2009... MGM financial issues, Bond #6 would have debuted in Bond 23, most likely Casino Royale, in 2012. Given that Daniel Craig would be 44 by then, he'd never have been even considered for a CR adaptation at that age.

  • jaguar007jaguar007
    Posts: 638
    Quoting RogueThunderball: Disregarding his age, I don't think Moore could have pulled off TLD. One scene that I love from TLD is when Bond gets Pushkin on his knees and it seems as though he's going to kill him, execution style. This moment really brings back the coldness of Bond and I don't think Moore could have pulled it off.
    As previously mentioned, that scene was re-written after Dalton was cast. The original script had Bond and Pushkin (or Gogal from early drafts) sitting and drinking champagne.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    edited March 2011 Posts: 4,813
    Quoting DaltonCraig007:

    Dude.... AWESOME.
    While Daniel Craig would be sorely missed, it would just about be worth it to have Dalton for all those films (minus TLD & LTK)!!
    I think what you said was a very educated proposition as to how things would have gone had Roger stayed- very impressive!
    I think you're absolutely right- the transition from Moore to Dalton was a bit radical- but Moore to Brosnan... THEN Dalton? Much easier transition! I've always thought Brosnan was the perfect mix of Connery and Moore. How right- by 1995 the public wanted a gritty Bond and Dalton would have been much better received by the public (and like you said, stayed even longer than Brosnan)

    LOVE IT!!


    But yeah.... a shame that you're probably right about Craig.... but I'd have what I've wanted for years-- Timothy Dalton in GoldenEye! lol

    That being said.... would Brosnan have been any good in LTK...?
  • saunderssaunders Living in a world of avarice and deceit
    Posts: 987
    The Living Daylights with Roger would of been just really, really, dreadful...though maybe not quite as bad as AVTAK admittedly. The key to the films success is that at the heart of it's screenplay is a genuinely tender and romantic love story beautifully acted by Tim a trained shakespearean actor and the wonderfully innocent and naive Maryam d'Arbo, the fact that they have such good onscreen chemistry helps to give the film a credibility that manages to gloss over some of the more humorous elements that indeed may very well of been written with the ageing Moore in mind. The strongest element in both of Dalton's films is the actor himself and his charisma seems not only to lift his own performance above the average, but also raises that of his co stars too.
    Don't get me wrong I'm not one of those 'Moore bashers' and enjoyed many of his films enormously but the idea of TLD without Dalton just seems like it would be a tragic waste. Likewise I would equally hate the idea of Connery doing OHMSS.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    Here's a question for those of you that have lived through it:
    by the time A View to a Kill came out in 1985 (I was 2 years old and have no idea...) was the public tired of Roger Moore? Did they want him for the next one? From what I gathered, it seems everyone still loved him. Did anyone here actually see it in the theatre? Was there snickering in the audience? I'm very curious to know.
  • IcebreakerIcebreaker
    Posts: 26
    I wasn't around back then, but I watched a Siskel and Ebert countdown of worst films of 1985 and A View to a Kill was there. Gene Siskel said something similar to "I really hope A View to a Kill will be the last Bond movie starring Roger Moore, who ruined what was once a great franchise."

    While his initial 1987 reaction to Timothy Dalton was negative (he eventually warmed up to him in 1989 when LTK came out) he still said "he's better than Roger Moore."
  • jaguar007jaguar007
    edited March 2011 Posts: 638
    Quoting Master_Dahark: Here's a question for those of you that have lived through it:

    by the time A View to a Kill came out in 1985 (I was 2 years old and have no idea...) was the public tired of Roger Moore? Did they want him for the next one? From what I gathered, it seems everyone still loved him. Did anyone here actually see it in the theatre? Was there snickering in the audience? I'm very curious to know.
    Yes, back in 1985 most people thought Roger Moore was too old to be playing Bond and people were already at that point saying Remington Stelle should be James Bond. I still have a newspaper clipping of a review of AVTAK (I think it may have been USA Today) where the article starts of saying "This James Bond is not just long in the tooth, he's got tusks".

    AVTAK did not set the box office on fire despite a very popular theme song and I think part of the reason is that yourger people who were into Duran Duran, just thought Moore was too old.

    I was in high school at the time and most of my friends had little interest in seeing AVTAK, fortunately I did have some friends I was able to drag to the theater with me.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    edited March 2011 Posts: 4,813
    After chatting with you all, I think I agree-- it wouldn't have worked. Especially now that I've heard from those who lived through the final Moore years and confirmed the public was sick of him- and even poking fun at him by that point.

    But try this on for size- suppose just for a second that Moore was hired one film EARLIER- for Diamonds are Forever! The whole style of that movie is campy like a Moore film, and since we know Lazenby quit before his own movie was even out, suppose we got Moore instead of overpaying Connery to return! Could have been interesting! I've always thought (while I do love Connery and Lazenby) that it was a shame that by the time Moore was introduced, he was already, what, 46?

    What do you all think of this?
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    I would have loved to have seen Sir Roger in TLD ,basically because i love to see Sir Roger in all his old films and TV series !!
  • saunderssaunders Living in a world of avarice and deceit
    Posts: 987
    I really like your idea of having Moore do DAF Master_dahark, his natural ability to do light comedy would of been perfect for the terrific one liners and being youthful looking and keen he would of knocked the spots of poor Connery's greying, overweight, reluctant and slightly bad tempered looking Bond. Plus we would then only have Connery in his prime while playing Bond to remember.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    If this did happen, well, look at how old Moore is in the 25th anniversary documentary. Would anyone have wanted that in a Bond film? The change that came with this film was much needed and should have happen earlier. I'd have never wanted Moore to continue, afterall he stepped down on his own.
  • barryt007barryt007
    edited March 2011 Posts: 19,339
    Quoting saunders: really like your idea of having Moore do DAF Master_dahark, his natural ability
    to do light comedy would of been perfect for the terrific one liners and being
    youthful looking and keen he would of knocked the spots of poor Connery's
    greying, overweight, reluctant and slightly bad tempered looking Bond. Plus we
    would then only have Connery in his prime while playing Bond to remember.
    That would have made DAF so so much better with Moore in it.
  • Lazenby.Lazenby.
    edited March 2011 Posts: 50
    Moore in DAF? No thanks. Mankiewicz's writing worked with Connery far better than it did with Moore IMO.

    And Moore could have done TLD, allowing for a few small stunt adjustments to the script and probably an older leading lady being cast. Back then, age wasn't the big issue it is today (The even-older-than-Moore George Peppard & the pushing-50 Lee Majors were the big TV action heroes of the day during the later Moore years, lest we forget, while Clint was about to come back again as Dirty Harry), coupled with the fact that a lot of the public missed the "Moore touch" when Dalton took over. Moore could have scraped through one more if he'd absolutely HAD to.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited March 2011 Posts: 13,356
    Isn't it evident that by the time of A View To A Kill the public had tired of Moore? The box office numbers had been on the decline for a while. He could've had continued, he had no choice by to leave and leaves the series with what dignity it had left by that time.
  • The_ReaperThe_Reaper
    Posts: 1,092
    I think the issues with AVTAK had more to do with the script than the public's love or dislike of Moore in the role. Even OP wasn't all that great of a film overall. I like it but it has its share of flaws, Moore being one of its strengths, same with AVTAK.
  • Lazenby.Lazenby.
    edited March 2011 Posts: 50
    Quoting Samuel001: Isn't it evident that by the time of A View To A Kill the public had
    tired of Moore?
    I'd say it was more a case of them tiring a little bit of Bond in GENERAL, as other big franchises started to take over. Bond had a brief and understandable curiosity-fuelled upsurge with the casting of a new actor with TLD, but it went back downhill again just one film later, partially because the public weren't that bothered with the new Bond. Many of the general public missed Moore at the time, despite him having been older than the hills in AVTAK. He'd have gone out with a fair bit more dignity had he made TLD with it's excellent plot/screenplay than by going out on the merely good AVTAK. Admit it, during the PTS of TLD, you WANT Rog on that boat, you NEED Rog on that boat. ;-)
  • dragonskydragonsky
    Posts: 2,491
    Quoting Samuel001: sn't it evident that by the time of A View To A Kill the public had tired of Moore?
    yea,i think that he made more movies than he should.he already made too much movies so we dont need him in other movie
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Quoting Lazenby.: Admit it, during the PTS of TLD, you WANT Rog on that boat, you NEED Rog on that boat.
    The woman on that boat would have to be 30 years older.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    Roger Moore in DAF I can live with but Roger Moore in TLD would have been too much of the good thing. I'm actually glad to see Dalton in the film. In fact, had Dalton signed on for Bond when they did AVTAK, he'd probably have been given a different (and more consistent?) script and Bond 14 might have triumphed.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2011 Posts: 15,723
    You know, I honestly can't see Dalton as Bond prior to TLD. His looks in that film, his world-weariness, is really what I love about his take on the character. I honestly can't picture a younger-looking Dalton as Bond. I think Dalton gets better with age. So, if Dalton needed to be in more films, it would be continuing after LTK, not coming before TLD. Dalton could have played Bond well into the late 1990's. Just like Brosnan, who I would have loved to see as Bond until the late 2000's, as he also aged very well, and became more Bondian with age. Whilst I love Moore, he looked too old in the later films. Ironicly, Brosnan and Dalton would have been wonderful as Bond at the same age of Moore in AVTAK.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited March 2011 Posts: 13,356
    Quoting Lazenby.: Admit it, during the PTS of TLD, you WANT Rog on that boat, you NEED Rog on that boat. ;)
    It would be interesting but after the rest of the PTS I'm already sold on Dalton, the boat, well yeah, not so good - EON used the wrong "better make that two" take!
  • jaguar007jaguar007
    Posts: 638
    Quoting Lazenby.: I'd say it was more a case of them tiring a little bit of Bond in GENERAL, as other big franchises started to take over.
    Very true, the public had tired of Bond during the 80s. The only 80s Bond film that did really well (in relation to other Bond films) was OP (at least in the US). EON really should have brought new blood and basically "rebooted" the series for TLD. A newer higher caliber director could have done wonders to energize the series that was looking a little tired and stale (in the publics eyes) in the 80s.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Out of the 2 films it would be DAF easily,a lot better than Connery was.
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