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Trump has to keep his head above water. Clinton needs to destroy him. Holt will be under a lot of pressure.
Fascinating evening ahead. The pressure is intense.
Hillary needs to destroy Trump, Trump just needs to show up & not vomit all over his podium. And yet, the MSM is in the bag for the Dems. The pressure may be intense but the nonsense level is even worse... Enjoy the show tonight! Who's got a drinking game scheduled? Chug once every time Donald promises to build the wall, chug twice every time those damn emails get mentioned...
So much for the 'Babe Ruth of Debates' according to Kellyanne Conway. If Trump is smart, he'll make up excuses and not do any more debates.
Overall, I don't know if much will change following tonight just yet. Trump supporters will still get behind him (if they haven't been turned away yet, they never will), but Hillary may have gained a decent amount of undecided votes through her conviction and responses on the stage, but again, nothing monumental, I think. I'd assume many undecided voters will make their final decision after the second debate or only after the third to get a full experience of both candidates in their element.
I'd say it's inarguable that Hillary was better in performance. More prepared, better temperament, and certainly far more respectful. You could've made a drinking game out of the number of times Trump randomly went off on irrelevant tangents, went way over time on his answers or interrupted Hillary or the moderator mid-speech. Just bad form in every way, really.
Overall, my main feelings remain the same: this year is a disgrace to politics and the far more respectful debates we used to have and still deserve as a populace. These things are more like roasts between these candidates than true policy discussions. Voters don't give a good goddamn about the birther issue, how much money Trump's dad loaned him, or how hurt Trump feels about mean campaign adds, a response I found endlessly amusing coming from a man who made his way into candidacy through being a low-blowing bully.
Anyway, onward to October 4th (VP debate) and 9th (debate #2).
I agree that this was a very poor quality debate, especially for leader of the free world. A truly sad state of affairs, and I hope for a significantly higher level of discussion on the important issues during the next two presidential and the one vp debate coming up. The country and the world deserves better.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-time-trumps-interruptions-insults-and-insinuations-arent-enough/2016/09/26/fcdce978-845c-11e6-a3ef-f35afb41797f_story.html?utm_term=.103b8f66dff9
https://newrepublic.com/article/137222/clinton-proved-trump-man-can-bait-debate
Shortly afterwards Rudi Giuliani said: "I think....it's better Trump skips the next two debates". That's by no means positive.
Well, he at least indirectly didn't approve of Trump's performance in his debate :-). Even Trump supporter Ari Fleischer tweeted, early on, that “Trump is getting too loud and too hot. If I were him, I’d tone that down a notch.”
I think what worked for Hillary is the fact that she really appeared as a cool, measured woman. And, most importantly, she appeared therefore more presidential. Classic debate set-ups are perfect for Clinton.
From New Republic:
Sounds infinitely better than Trump as far as I'm concerned!
or:
Both quotes evoked a fair bit of laughter :-).
She definitely looked more like a president last night. And even just typing that makes me really, really uncomfortable.
He didn't play to the camera however. Quite the contrary, and I think that was intentional. He was drinking lots of water and looking at her even though he knew (or should have known via his advisors) that the split screen (which favoured her on height and size) would reflect poorly on him in those instances. That was refreshing and he did something similar in the Republican Debates. He was going for authenticity and he nailed that aspect by not pulling a 'Gore'.
His momentum (which was impressive after 'the fall') has been 'slowed' but not stopped. He is now a viable alternative, but a less polished and informed one.
@Thrasos, I have a feeling the election result may ultimately surprise a lot of folks. I think this is going to 'break' one way in the next few weeks. It may not end up being as close as I and others have previously expected.
Bu...there never are knock-outs in debates. So I don't know why you are using that word anyway. And let's first see how this debate plays out upcoming days. Moreover, a populist like Trump is always difficult to debate given the fact that a hardcore group of supporters will never change opinion. So given the fact that Trump is a populist, at least the contrast was very visible. While you think Trump looked refreshing, others may reason he looked not presidential enough. And that stigma is important these days. Especially after this debate. Not enough to change votes from the Republican column to the Clinton side, but perhaps enough to convince some of the many undecided.
There was never going to be a knockout. The media (in its attempt to make sure they're fair) simply won't allow it. And this is why even CNN has columnists proclaiming Trump won that debate. The media needs to keep selling this election, keep peddling the train wreck.
I don't know how anyone, on substance, can look at Trump and argue that he has the knowledge and qualifications for the position. The idiotic things he says, alone, should disqualify him:
1. Thinks Hillary has been fighting ISIS her whole adult life.
2. Doesn't consider NATO all that much.
3. Wants to rip up treaties.
4. Thinks making money on the housing crash is just "business."
5. Paying no taxes is "Smart."
6. Wants LaGuardia to look like a palace but (in connection to #5) wants everyone else to pay for it.
7. Has to bring the subject of Rosie O'Donnell into a Presidential debate.
I do think if Clinton would have faced Romney or McCain there wouldn't be such a stark differences in styles. And perhaps then it wasn't even possible to use the word 'knock-out'. I do think Clinton would have had more trouble then.
But now in a debate setting, one sees the differences between the two candidates and subsequently it becomes much easier to mark someone "more presidential". And sorry, it wasn't Trump.
Also interesting........just remarkable how many times Trump uses the words "very, very, VERY" and "greatest, GREATEST" like tens of times. It's "really, really, REALLY" annoying (:| . This lack of...nuance, these exaggerations, enhanced by constantly using or overusing these words make me feel......worried.
As usual, you're just throwing words around and have no clue what things mean. You have a 3rd apt. in a different universe.....and you are the only resident. Nice.
Even Republican campaign vets like Mike Murphy and Steve Schmitt said if it had been a boxing match, they would have stopped it in the 5th round, because Trump was getting pummeled and couldn't lift his arms at the end. They said a bad sign was Trump in the post debate spin room trying to salvage something. Both agreed it's a desperate move and shows he was trounced. Even that fat slob Chris Christie couldn't say anything positive about his performance.
He's now blaming the sound system, the camera people, Lester Holt's questions and height of the podium. That doesn't sound like a winner to anyone. Admitting you gamed the system by declaring bankruptcy, that you made money in the Republican-led depression and you approved racial discrimination in housing because others were doing it. He's a liar, a cheat and that's not a choice.
What part of the following do you not understand?
I couldn't have been more clear, so your preaching above is totally unnecessary mate. No need to persist with the bug up your arse. Just let it go and breathe. Your candidate might still win. You and I just have a difference of opinion about it. No need to get personal.
Debate analysis and spin means nothing, and they consistently got it wrong during the primaries.
This electorate is very unpredictable and nobody knows with certainty at the moment how this will be interpreted by the voters that matter.
It's an unpredicatbale electorate indeed. Absolutely. And looking at the high amount of independents, moderates and undecideds, as compared to 2012, the uncertainty of this election is by far bigger than previous editions. And if you look at the polls, you certainly have to admit that it's a remarkable job what Trump is pulling off so far. In the polls it's on average dead-even now (+2 or +3 % points for Clinton).
But like you said, these debates are especially now pivotal given the fact that there are way more independents than previous years. And Trump had to reach out better to them. He didn't. And I do think it has to do with the actual setting of this debate. Trump's audience is now also Clinton's audience, and the other way around. And the halls are now not completely filled with either neo-nationalists, xenophobes, real Republicans, libertarians and 'Trumpites'. They are now also filled with Democrats, Greens, independents, Dixiecrats, Blue Dog's, socialists, moderates and many more. And when those stay silent during such a debate, this whole Trump affair becomes increasingly.....boring and tiresome to watch. The 'X-Factor' is less present then, the entertainment factor is a bit gone.
Trumps namecalling towards Clinton, his constant gesturing with his hands, his childish interruptions "You wrong!", him repeating one word several times, like "VERY VERY VERY", becomes in such a format not very much an assett anymore if it isn't followed by huge cheers. These debates are for independents and moderates to make up their minds, not just for Republicans.
Hillary Clinton on the other hand.......she's like the next Fiona Volpe....in a good way :-). She knows how to deal with guys like...his husband...and Trump. She has this assett that now comes very much to the surface and that I'd love to see in The White House: Her feminine smartness, temperament and intellectuality. She gets under the skin of not just Trump, but I wanna bet also under thickskinned masculine world leaders who have tendencies to dye their hairs (Hollande) or love to show off their torsos (Putin).
I don't want to talk in terms of knock-outs. But Clinton surely prevented another big gain in poll numbers for Trump.
Regarding the actual debate itself, I don't think there's one person in the US who hadn't formulated an opinion about either of these candidates and their demeanour prior to last night. They are two of the most well known people in the US and have been covered extensively.
Hillary's advertising prior to yesterday's debate portrayed Trump as volatile, unpredictable, unknowledgeable, and unready for prime time. The impact of yesterday's debate on the undecideds (the only ones who matter) will depend on whether she was able to confirm and validate that portrayal on stage in a 'one on one' situation. I don't think she did, although she definitely won the debate. He held his own, but was clearly not as informed as she was, which was likely what people expected going in. I can appreciate how others might disagree.
I think this will be a wash but his momentum will have been slowed. We'll see in a couple of weeks.