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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I must say, one of the best Bond moments would have to be the "You'll miss me"/"I never miss" scene with Bond and Elektra. It's still shocking all these years later to see Bond take a lethal approach to a woman.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    Spectre is one of the best films in the series. The problem with a lot of the "classic"/OTT Bond films, even the good ones, is that Bond becomes a cartoon character. In Spectre, despite how unfappable and self assured and larger than life he is, he feels like a real person. There's a human element to it which along with the modern take on a brilliant formula (which it still manages to subvert in really clever ways), and a great plot full of great dialogue and great action scenes make for a fun, brilliant, really well made/well shot/well acted Bond film. The only lacklustre things about it, in my opinion, are the score and the brother angle (which was pretty easy to ignore). Loved it. Had everything I've been wishing for for years and felt like the perfect natural conclusion to the Craig era.

    Good points but unfortunately the score is a big one for me.

  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    Spectre is one of the best films in the series. The problem with a lot of the "classic"/OTT Bond films, even the good ones, is that Bond becomes a cartoon character. In Spectre, despite how unfappable and self assured and larger than life he is, he feels like a real person. There's a human element to it which along with the modern take on a brilliant formula (which it still manages to subvert in really clever ways), and a great plot full of great dialogue and great action scenes make for a fun, brilliant, really well made/well shot/well acted Bond film. The only lacklustre things about it, in my opinion, are the score and the brother angle (which was pretty easy to ignore). Loved it. Had everything I've been wishing for for years and felt like the perfect natural conclusion to the Craig era.

    The PPK is a stylish elegant looking gun that really suits Bond. But it's no longer the perfect gun for a professional goverment sactioned killer to carry, we shouldn't pretend that Bond's continued use of it makes sense or that it's out of anything but tradition. Practically speaking, there are probably a number of equally easy to conceal modern pistols that are more accurate, have a greater capacity, etc.

    TWINE is a great Bond film with a lot of interesting ideas and some great character development that gets overlooked by fans because it doesn't fit their preconceptions of the Brosnan era. And people criticise Brosnan era for box ticking but, regardless of what you think of the execution, I think TWINE is a lot more original than a lot of beloved (or at least more popular) Bond films (TB*, TSWLM, MR, GE and SP to name a few).

    *I can cut them some slack there because it was one of the first and they pretty much just followed the book but it is essentially a big bloated follow up to GF, relying on gimmicks like the ridiculously naff jetpack to be "bigger and better".

    Isn't this a bit contradictory? Either you are larger than life or a real person. I guess they tried to make a Bond film that has both, a real person as James Bond and a larger than life plot. However the outcome is extremely boring and most of the film is badly written. In all other larger than life Bond films they at least know what they were doing and do not take themselves to seriously. And the few emotional elements in these films were included very carefully (e.g. Bond and Anya talking about Bond being married in TSWLM). In SP they tried to fill the film with too many forced emotions that do not feel real but come across being laughable (the rivalry between Bond and his former "Step brother" Blofeld, the forced relationship with Madeleine, his romance with Lucia (shortly after he killed her husband)).

    I really agree on TWINE. I have always enjoyed the film very much and I think it has some great and unique ideas.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    I must say, one of the best Bond moments would have to be the "You'll miss me"/"I never miss" scene with Bond and Elektra. It's still shocking all these years later to see Bond take a lethal approach to a woman.

    That s not the first time Bond kills a woman.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    I must say, one of the best Bond moments would have to be the "You'll miss me"/"I never miss" scene with Bond and Elektra. It's still shocking all these years later to see Bond take a lethal approach to a woman.

    That s not the first time Bond kills a woman.

    I think its the first (and only) time he has fired the fatal shot himself.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    TSWLM, NSNA, GE (not a shot)
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    MayDayDiVicenzo wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    The one bad thing in the LTK pts is the stupid slo.mo.

    Agreed.

    How often have we seen it in Bond? The one in LTK comes out of nowhere and is uncalled for. The only others I can think of are in OHMSS and DAD, and the only one that works is in OHMSS when Bond is knocked out.

    Works in OHMSS, it's fine in LTK and looks like a cheap music video in DAD.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    DAD looks like it tries to be THE MATRIX.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    True.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    I must say, one of the best Bond moments would have to be the "You'll miss me"/"I never miss" scene with Bond and Elektra. It's still shocking all these years later to see Bond take a lethal approach to a woman.

    That s not the first time Bond kills a woman.

    That's not what I mean.

    Bond's done that a few times before, yes, but what makes the moment especially cold and impactful is the personal connection he has with Elektra and the big betrayal of it all, something he never had with the likes of Fiona or Xenia, who he had sex with sans emotion or true adoration. The moment is bigger than Bond killing a woman, it's him killing a lover he thought he could trust.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    I must say, one of the best Bond moments would have to be the "You'll miss me"/"I never miss" scene with Bond and Elektra. It's still shocking all these years later to see Bond take a lethal approach to a woman.

    That s not the first time Bond kills a woman.

    That's not what I mean.

    Bond's done that a few times before, yes, but what makes the moment especially cold and impactful is the personal connection he has with Elektra and the big betrayal of it all, something he never had with the likes of Fiona or Xenia, who he had sex with sans emotion or true adoration. The moment is bigger than Bond killing a woman, it's him killing a lover he thought he could trust.


    Yes, exactly its like if he would have been obligated to shoot Tracy or Vesper. Like Barbara once said in TWINE Bond thought he found tracy when actually went to find blofeld.


  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    My full list of controversial opinions:

    - TMWTGG and TWINE are in my top 10
    - with that in mind, I love Mary Goodnight and the Z8 is a top 5 Bond car for me
    - LALD, FYEO and SP are in my bottom 5
    - I love the Eric Serra score to GE and -brace yourself- I even like the end title song
    - Craig is my least favourite Bond actor
    - I like NSNA, I think Fox made a good M and I don't dislike Legrand's score either
    - Koskov and Gray's Blofeld are both enjoyable villains to me
    - Pam Bouvier is one of the best Bond girls

    That should do it.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    After seeing Kleinman's titles, Binder's are extremely boring in comparison
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I love early Binder, but he became dull and repetitive by the late '70s (I do love his work in TSWLM). Kleinman was a breath of fresh air (I also liked the M2K one), but I have not really cared for the last two. They seem to just be there to give us a mini-rundown of the film, with little visual cohesiveness (aside form the octopus motif)..

    Yes I agree on the last two. But that would be Mendes doing - kleinmans graphics are still very well done

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    TSWLM, NSNA, GE (not a shot)

    Forgot about TSWLM and NSNA doesn't count.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,004
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    My full list of controversial opinions:

    - Pam Bouvier is one of the best Bond girls

    Agree. Even though I think LTK is lame, Pam Bouvier is the best thing in it. Would have loved to have seen her character turn up in another Bond film.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Alright, I'll say it. Bond shooting down Blofeld's helicopter on the Thames is my favorite action segment in SPECTRE.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    @jake24 then this is the video for you. :D
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited October 2016 Posts: 10,591
    Brilliant, @Murdock! Nice use of "He's Dangerous" at the beginning.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Thanks @jake24. :)
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    My full list of controversial opinions:

    - Pam Bouvier is one of the best Bond girls

    Agree. Even though I think LTK is lame, Pam Bouvier is the best thing in it. Would have loved to have seen her character turn up in another Bond film.

    I used to like her but not so much anymore.

    She seems like a fairly stereotypical tough-talking US chick.

    "You took the words right outta my mouth"

    I'm also not too fond of the final scene with her running off crying after seeing Bond kissing Lupe.

    oh and I loathe her "I love James so much.. I'll be damned if i'll help him" scene.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    jake24 wrote: »
    Alright, I'll say it. Bond shooting down Blofeld's helicopter on the Thames is my favorite action segment in SPECTRE.

    It's really not that bad at all. The cinematography is quite beautiful, especially given how well it puts action against the backdrop of the Big Ben and the London Eye. The general atmosphere lends to a significant sense of scope as well - Bond shooting down a helicopter that really does look like it's far away. Only letdown is that the shot is quite a miracle.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Great work @Murdock
    But instead of confronting poor Blofeld on the bridge Bond should have entered an ice berg sub marine in the Thames.... banging a hot girl. This would have been a more satisfying ending of SP.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    w2bond wrote: »
    After seeing Kleinman's titles, Binder's are extremely boring in comparison

    That maybe so but they are still basically following the same principle just updated, so they couldn't have been that bad!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited October 2016 Posts: 6,304
    jobo wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I love Craig's performances as Bond and accepted him from his first line of dialogue in the PTS of CR. However, there a few moments in his era where it seems painfully obvious he supposed to "act" or show off his acting chops. It comes to the point of indicating an intense moment rather than it coming naturally and the scene suffers. I blame the direction and writing over Craig himself. I'm thinking in particular to Bond's reaction when Blofeld shows Dr Swann the footage of White committing suicide. I think that would have been far more intense had he keep it subtle.
    In fairness, under the same circumstances I think Pierce would have shouted, but had Sir Roger Moore played 007 in that scene, he would have kept it simple, serious and far more effective. Along the lines how he played the city hall sequence when Zorin shoots Howe. As it stands, this intense moment in SP is unintentionally funny. I almost start cracking up when they knock Bond down.


    Its a very strange scene in general. I don't understand the point of it, or why it should warrant such an intense reaction from Bond. I don't think Craig is to blame really.

    I would have bought Bond's "suicide tape" reaction if I had believed the Bond/Swann romance by that point. I'm not sure I ever quite bought the romance, frankly.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    GBF wrote: »
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    Spectre is one of the best films in the series. The problem with a lot of the "classic"/OTT Bond films, even the good ones, is that Bond becomes a cartoon character. In Spectre, despite how unfappable and self assured and larger than life he is, he feels like a real person. There's a human element to it which along with the modern take on a brilliant formula (which it still manages to subvert in really clever ways), and a great plot full of great dialogue and great action scenes make for a fun, brilliant, really well made/well shot/well acted Bond film. The only lacklustre things about it, in my opinion, are the score and the brother angle (which was pretty easy to ignore). Loved it. Had everything I've been wishing for for years and felt like the perfect natural conclusion to the Craig era.

    The PPK is a stylish elegant looking gun that really suits Bond. But it's no longer the perfect gun for a professional goverment sactioned killer to carry, we shouldn't pretend that Bond's continued use of it makes sense or that it's out of anything but tradition. Practically speaking, there are probably a number of equally easy to conceal modern pistols that are more accurate, have a greater capacity, etc.

    TWINE is a great Bond film with a lot of interesting ideas and some great character development that gets overlooked by fans because it doesn't fit their preconceptions of the Brosnan era. And people criticise Brosnan era for box ticking but, regardless of what you think of the execution, I think TWINE is a lot more original than a lot of beloved (or at least more popular) Bond films (TB*, TSWLM, MR, GE and SP to name a few).

    *I can cut them some slack there because it was one of the first and they pretty much just followed the book but it is essentially a big bloated follow up to GF, relying on gimmicks like the ridiculously naff jetpack to be "bigger and better".

    Isn't this a bit contradictory? Either you are larger than life or a real person. I guess they tried to make a Bond film that has both, a real person as James Bond and a larger than life plot. However the outcome is extremely boring and most of the film is badly written. In all other larger than life Bond films they at least know what they were doing and do not take themselves to seriously. And the few emotional elements in these films were included very carefully (e.g. Bond and Anya talking about Bond being married in TSWLM). In SP they tried to fill the film with too many forced emotions that do not feel real but come across being laughable (the rivalry between Bond and his former "Step brother" Blofeld, the forced relationship with Madeleine, his romance with Lucia (shortly after he killed her husband)).

    I really agree on TWINE. I have always enjoyed the film very much and I think it has some great and unique ideas.

    I respectfully disagree. The serious tone and stakes of CR have rendered TWINE and DAD borderline unwatchable for me.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    SP has a better score than AVTAK.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    SP has a better score than AVTAK.

    This is not a controversial opinion but blasphemy.... But I also find that Newman's score isn't too bad...., it is just very forgettable.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    There is just nothing distinctive about Newman's scores. Every Bond film has a score which one can immediately associate with its particular film. Not so much for SF and SP though.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I disagree. I think they both stand out.
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