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Here is another AVTAK fan...
1. FRWL
2. GF
3. YOLT
4. DN
5. TB
1. LALD
2. TMWTGG
3. DAF
4. TSWLM
5. MR
1. TLD
2. FYEO
3. OP
4. LTK
5. NSNA
1. AVTAK
2. GE
3. TWINE
4. TND
5. DAD
1. CR
2. OHMSS
3. SF
4. SP
5. QOS
2. GF
3. DN
4. TB
5. YOLT
1. TSWLM
2. LALD
3. TMWTGG
4. MR
5. DAF
1. LTK
2. TLD
3. OP
4. FYEO
5. NSNA
1. GE
2. TWINE
3. DAD
4. AVTAK
5. TND
1. OMHSS
2. SF
3. CR
4. QOS
5. SP
2. YOLT
3. DR. NO
4. GF
5. TB
1. LALD
2. TMWTGG
3. DAF
4. TSWLM
5. MR
1. FYEO
2. TLD
3. OP
4. LTK
5. NSNA
1. GE
2. TWINE
3. TMND
4. AVTAK
5. DAD
1. OHMSS
2. QOS
3. SP
4. CR
5. SF
BONUS:
Number 1: RANK THE NUMBER ONES FROM EVERY LIST:
In my case: FRWL, LALD, FYEO, GE and OHMSS.
1. GE
2. OHMSS
3. FYEO
4. LALD
5. FRWL
Number 2:
1. TWINE
2. TLD
3. TMWTGG
4. QOS
5. YOLT
Number 3:
1. TMND
2. OP
3. DAF
4. DR. NO
5. SP
Number 4:
1. AVTAK
2. TSWLM
3. LTK
4. GF
5. CR
Number 5:
1. MR
2. DAD
3. NSNA
4. TB
5. SF
Thanks for doing that 2nd part!
I thought of asking folks for that very thing as part of this thread, but thought it might confuse people, since the whole idea of my ranking system was based upon the idea that it's near impossible to compare/rank movies across eras, given that the tone of each era is so different. HOWEVER, there is a way it could work...
Let's say that your number one from the camp era is LALD (as yours is) and that your number one from the "serious" era of the 80s is FYEO (as yours is), then, if so, one could ask oneself "Does LALD work better as a camp Bond movie than FYEO works as serious Bond movie?", then ask the same of the other number one Bond movies from their respective eras and the tone of those eras, and then rank accordingly. Then carry on to the number two Bond movies from each era in this same manner, etc.
I assume that this is what you've done. I'll follow your lead and do the same, but I can't get to it right now.
yep, it's all relative. the 80s bond movies were "serious" only in relation to the decade that came before, & that's precisely how i meant it. in the bond universe, there really is no such thing as a truly serious espionage movie. & isn't that what we love about bond? he's not an agent of le carre.
Era 1
1. FRWL
2. DN
3. GF
4. TB
5. YOLT
Era 2
1. LALD
2. TSWLM
3. MR
4. TMWTGG
5. DAF
Era 3
1. TLD
2. FYEO
3. LTK
4. OP
5. NSNA
Era 4
1. GE
2. TWINE
3. TND
4. AVTAK
5. DAD
Era 5
1. CR
2. OHMSS
3. SF
4. QOS
5. SP
I agree but I guess that all Glen films have their silly moments (at least the three Moore films). I also don't think that AVTAK is such a different film compared to the other two 80s Moore films. The basic plot is often very similar. There is a challenge between the Soviets and the West, so all have Cold war plot elements, all have a more serious and violent tone, just mixed with some silly humour in very few scenes. All Glen films have an ally that dies in the middle of the film which seems to irritate Bond or make him even seek for revenge. Moore's Bond is a more experineced agent who is more the protector and kind of a father figure for the leading lady (in fact, in all 3 80s Moore Bond films the back story of the Bond girls is very relevant to the plot an each time, the father played a role). Glen focused on a more realisitc and complicated plot, character devellopments and action instead of style and scale (no world domination plans).
Therefore I think it is pretty obvious to put all the Glen films in one group. If one wanted to exclude one I would rather take LTK because some of the core elements of the other four films are missing (no cold war film, no focus on an official mission, no European setting, Bond girl not really essential to the plot, clear focus on personal issues).
You make some good points. I'd never before thought of AVTAK that way. I've always seen it as a silly throw-back to the 70s Bond movie era, but, in starting this thread, placed it in the 90s era because of its over-the-top nature (like the other 90s Bond movies), while not quite being like the out-and-out silly "comedies" of the 70s, & also for the sake of balance (having 5 Bond movies in each era).
I'm really biased against AVTAK though, as it's my host hated Bond movie, and that doesn't come from consensus. I remember hating it when I first saw it in the theater. It was the first Bond movie that truly embarrassed me as a Bond fan. That scene where grandpa Bond invites May Day into his bed actually nauseated me.
Your point is even more well taken regarding LTK. There was a strong urge for me to place that movie in the "this time it's personal" era when I created this thread. However, in many ways, LTK does have more in common with the elements of the 80s Bond movie era than the Craig era and, also, that balance thing (of wanting 5 Bond movies per ear).
Regarding the whole "this time it's personal" thing, it's a bit of a misnomer. Certainly the Bond movies have gotten more personal over time, but many Bond movies had a strongly personal element, going all the way back to Connery even....
FRWL -- Bond is personally targeted by the Soviets working for SPECTRE. It's the whole plot of the movie.
OHMSS -- That one is obvious.
TMWTGG -- Scaramanga, as a hit man, has personally targeted Bond, setting-up the premise of the movie from the beginning.
TSWLM -- Bond has killed the lover of XXX, who will take vengeance on Bond (or so we're led to believe).
OP -- Bond's history with Octopussy's father.
Many of the in-between movies had more subtle personal elements, such as Bond avenging other MI6 agents that have been killed (DN, TB, LALD, OP) or other types of personal elements (Melina's revenge motive in FYEO).
The entire Brosnan era of Bond movies all contain strong and growing personal elements to the story that involve Bond and/or M, beyond simply going out on a mission.
By the time we get to the Craig era though, the "personal" theme has grown to such an extent that the movies really are all about Bond himself, more than the mission. I didn't feel that was true about LTK, which is another reason I chose to leave it in the 80s era of "serious" Bond movies (relatively speaking), rather than placing it in the extremely personal Craig era.
The "this time it's personal" theme has been a continually growing trend throughout the five decades of Bond, sometimes waning for a movie or two, only to come back as an even stronger plot element. Today, Bond movies are as much personal dramas as they are espionage stories, and far less the superhero movies they used to be in the 70s & 90s. The biggest loss in this, is that Bond is no longer a man of mystery, but someone we know way more about than I ever wanted to know (even though I do like the more serious take of recent movies).
All right, doing it the balje way:
No.1s:
OHMSS
GF
FYEO
TSWLM
AVTAK
No. 2s:
CR
DN
TLD
DAF
TND
No. 3s:
FRWL
SF
LTK
TMWTGG
GE
No.4s:
SP
TB
LALD
NSNA
TWINE
No. 5s:
QOS
YOLT
OP
MR
DAD
Ranked #1's
1. FRWL (clear winner)
2. CR (very close to below)
3. TSWLM (very close to above)
4. GE (very close to above)
5. OP
Ranked #2's
1. TB (close with below)
2. OHMSS (close with above)
3. LTK close with above)
4. LALD
5. TND
Ranked # 3's
1. DN (close with below)
2. SF (close with above)
3. FYEO (close with below)
4. TMWTGG (close with above)
5. AVTAK
Ranked # 4's
1. QoS
2. GF
3. TLD
4. MR
5. DAD
Ranked # 5's
1. YOLT
2. DAF
3. NSNA
4. SP
5. TWINE
I agree to almost everything you say, Especially the "This time it's personal" issue. I also think that the difference is: In older Bond films "personal issues" were minor elements in the film to enhance the role of a certain character and to increase tension. Bond's motivation was hardly influenced by it and he almost always kept a strong focus on his mission.
I find that LTK, TWINE, QoS, SF and SP are the films where Bond's or M's personal issues really dominate the film and the actual villain's scheme rather become a side plot. That's not entirely bad but becomes tiresome if it is used too often.
I don't agree to one of your comments:
"Today, Bond movies are as much personal dramas as they are espionage stories, and far less the superhero movies they used to be in the 70s & 90s."
I read this very often but honestly I don't think that this is the case. I personally think that from a physical point of view, Bond has never been more unconvincing. I mean just look at all these chase and fight sequences. In the 70s Bond was rather a normal person and he was not twice as strong as any henchman. Today, Craig is able to beat a whole group henchman in a single fight with tied hands, shoot down a chopper from a speedboat, escape a crater base and blow the whole damm thing up with one or two shots, survive a free fall from a plane or an extremely high bridge, chase a freerunner over a construction area.... He never fails in anything...
Never before has Bond been that unconvincingly strong and fast. In the older Bond films, Bond rather used a trick or his cleverness to win against his opponants. Today, he is much more a super hero who is simply stronger and faster than everyone else.
Always considered FYEO as one of the more serious films.
Sure it still has humour but the murder of the Havelock family, the most violent assassin of the series, Moore's most serious kill and moment, the sinister blonde Olympics guy, all the murderous attempts to end Melina's and/or Bond's lives, becoming sharkbait etc etc , the list is endless, oh and Lisl !!
Only LTK was more serious and violent.
1. GF
2. FRWL
3. DN
4. TB
5. YOLT
Era 2
1. TSWLM
2. TMWTGG
3. MR
4. LALD
5. DAF
Era 3
1. TLD
2. FYEO
3. OP
4. NSNA
5. LTK
Era 4
1. GE
2. TWINE
3. TND
4. AVTAK
5. DAD
Era 5
1. CR
2. OHMSS
3. QoS
4. SF
5. SP
I completely agree with you assessment here.
I only partialy agree with the rest of your assessment. Certainly the Craig Bond is tougher & more well trained as an assassin but, looking at the nature of the movies themselves... I remember as a child of the 70s making very little distinction between a Bond movie and, say, a Superman movie, except liking Bond more than any other superhero.
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The stairway scene was quite ok. But most of the blood is not his. Still it is far from being as gritty as the scene in LTK.
With your insatiable sex drive, you should be able to relate. It s Eva after all.