The Trump Era (Jan 20, 2017 – XXXX) Political Discussion Including Foreign Impacts

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »

    All the whining about Mr. Putin reminds me of Greg Beem's statement in QoS: "Yeah, you're right. We should only deal with nice people."

    He was a bad guy, bj. :-O
    He was CIA, the same chaps who are leaking Russia stories these days. Fair enough. Then let me quote a good guy from the same film, namely the British Foreign Minister:

    "Say you're right. Say Greene is a villain. If we refused to do business with villains, we'd have almost no one to trade with. The world's running out of oil, M. The Russians aren't playing ball. The Americans and Chinese are dividing up what's left. Right or wrong doesn't come into it. We're acting out of necessity."

    My point is this is realpolitik. I am of the belief that, despite their numerous flaws, it makes sense to draw Russia inwards in order to counter China. A reverse Nixon 'China Card' so to speak.
    *Claps* In my opinion, Trump is faking it with Putin in order to focus power on the real enemy: CHINA
    China is a rival, both militarily, economically and geopolitically. I think the trick will be to handle them in a much smarter manner. So far, they've been playing a much craftier game than the US has, but they are also quite unstable domestically. Bottom line: both countries need each other. China needs the US to buy its goods and the US needs China to buy its debt. It's almost a mutually assured destruction if one side gets too aggressive with the other directly. So they will both attempt to exert influence & change behaviour via surrogates and regional players.

  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »

    All the whining about Mr. Putin reminds me of Greg Beem's statement in QoS: "Yeah, you're right. We should only deal with nice people."

    He was a bad guy, bj. :-O
    He was CIA, the same chaps who are leaking Russia stories these days. Fair enough. Then let me quote a good guy from the same film, namely the British Foreign Minister:

    "Say you're right. Say Greene is a villain. If we refused to do business with villains, we'd have almost no one to trade with. The world's running out of oil, M. The Russians aren't playing ball. The Americans and Chinese are dividing up what's left. Right or wrong doesn't come into it. We're acting out of necessity."

    My point is this is realpolitik. I am of the belief that, despite their numerous flaws, it makes sense to draw Russia inwards in order to counter China. A reverse Nixon 'China Card' so to speak.
    *Claps* In my opinion, Trump is faking it with Putin in order to focus power on the real enemy: CHINA
    China is a rival, both militarily, economically and geopolitically. I think the trick will be to handle them in a much smarter manner. So far, they've been playing a much craftier game than the US has, but they are also quite unstable domestically. Bottom line: both countries need each other. China needs the US to buy its goods and the US needs China to buy its debt. It's almost a mutually assured destruction if one side gets too aggressive with the other directly. So they will both attempt to exert influence & change behaviour via surrogates and regional players.
    Ugh. There lies the eternal dilemma.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    You are over-thinking this bj. Do not assume the major players here are as intelligent as YOU are. The peeps at the top are nearly always dopes that make decisions based on their 'gut feeling' after being told what's what by the real experts.
    911-planes.jpg
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2016 Posts: 23,883
    chrisisall wrote: »
    The peeps at the top are nearly always dopes that make decisions based on their 'gut feeling' after being told what's what by the real experts.
    I don't know if they rely on gut feeling necessarily, but I do know that things fall through the cracks in a bureaucracy all the time. Important things. Even with the best intentions.

    Hopefully all the various agencies and depts that have been set up post-911, including Homeland Security, and all the x-agency cooperation/coordination will reduce the chance of something catastrophic like that happening again.

    Mr. Trump and his team will have to be vigilant.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    bondjames wrote: »

    Mr. Trump and his team will have to be vigilant.

    Fantasy-Island.jpg
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Today alone I've been accused of being a 'fool', 'naive' and now of 'drinking the Kool-Aid'. That must be a record.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    bondjames wrote: »
    Today alone I've been accused of being a 'fool', 'naive' and now of 'drinking the Kool-Aid'. That must be a record.
    I'd lay off the Kool-Aid then.
    =))
  • I kindly like to refer people to the Dutch newsmagazine television program "Nieuwsuur" from public broadcaster NOS. It's a bit comparable to CBS News' "60 Minutes", and offers investigative in-depth reports and interviews related to the current (geopolitical) news.

    Some of the segments are done by the Nieuwsuur-reporters who are based in Washington DC and New York City. Most of them are entirely in English. So it's possible to get some insight in news matters from a Dutch perspective.

    The video embedded at the bottom of this news article was released on television early this week and is actually a report about Donald Trump's conflicts of interests, following the news that the new Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson, is putting all his financial assets in a full blind trust:
    http://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2148245-tillerson-zal-ontdekken-dat-de-wereld-anders-is-als-minister.html?title=tillerson-zal-ontdekken-dat-de-wereld-anders-is-als-minister

    During the video New York Times reporter Eric Lipton and former advisor to President Obama, Norman Eisen, are giving their views on the conflicts of interests that will most certainly arise once Donald Trump assumes office as President of the United States next month.

    I just hope some people take some time in watching the embedded video. Because I do think that most people in here would like to get a president who doesn't follow Nixon's footsteps.
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    chrisisall wrote: »
    You are over-thinking this bj. Do not assume the major players here are as intelligent as YOU are. The peeps at the top are nearly always dopes that make decisions based on their 'gut feeling' after being told what's what by the real experts.
    911-planes.jpg
    Please don't politicize a tragedy.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    chrisisall wrote: »
    You are over-thinking this bj. Do not assume the major players here are as intelligent as YOU are. The peeps at the top are nearly always dopes that make decisions based on their 'gut feeling' after being told what's what by the real experts.
    911-planes.jpg
    Please don't politicize a tragedy.
    You miss the point in your zeal to be so righteous. It's NOT political. But all folks like you solidly on the left or right see is politics. Reality escapes you both.
    9-11 happened because the driver was asleep at the wheel. That is not a political statement. Water is wet. That too is not a political statement.
    Here endith the lesson for today.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2016 Posts: 23,883
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    You are over-thinking this bj. Do not assume the major players here are as intelligent as YOU are. The peeps at the top are nearly always dopes that make decisions based on their 'gut feeling' after being told what's what by the real experts.
    911-planes.jpg
    Please don't politicize a tragedy.
    You miss the point in your zeal to be so righteous. It's NOT political. But all folks like you solidly on the left or right see is politics. Reality escapes you both.
    9-11 happened because the driver was asleep at the wheel. That is not a political statement. Water is wet. That too is not a political statement.
    Here endith the lesson for today.
    It's a fair point, but what's not fair in my view is equating Bush with Trump.

    As mentioned, National Security Advisor Michael Flynn gets the daily briefings. He was head of the Defense Intelligence Agency until 2014 and warned President Obama about ISIL. At the time, the president was referring to them as the inconsequential 'JV' team. He apparently didn't like Flynn's assessment of the growing Islamic threat at the time, and forced him out of his job, because it didn't jive with his politics. Flynn is vigilant about the threats that face the US, and even those who don't like him say he's on top of his game from a threat assessment perspective.

    If anyone is interested, they can read this detailed interview of his view on global threats below from 2014. Like the interview with Mr. Putin that I posted on the last page, I find it's best to go directly to the individual and then form an assessment, rather than read interpretations from news sources with a bias.

    mXOEptr.jpg

    http://breakingdefense.com/2014/08/flynns-last-interview-intel-iconoclast-departs-dia-with-a-warning/

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/lt-gen-michael-flynn/

    http://nypost.com/2016/07/09/the-military-fired-me-for-calling-our-enemies-radical-jihadis/

    In other news, as I suspected a few days back, it appears Washington may have a new power couple shortly. It is being reported that Ivanka Trump, The President Elect's daughter, and her husband, Jared Kusher, will be moving to Washington. It is assumed that they both will have an informal advisory role in Mr. Trump's Administration. Mr. Kushner is a developer like his father in law, and is credited with formulating the data operation which swept Mr. Trump into office. Ivanka Trump has already been influential in one of her signature issues as Climate Change Advocate, arranging meetings with noted players in the field including Al Gore and Leonardo DiCaprio. The thinking at present is they can play a role as long as they do not have official cabinet positions.

    "Jared understood the online world in a way the traditional media folks didn't. He managed to assemble a presidential campaign on a shoestring using new technology and won. That's a big deal," says Eric Schmidt, the Google billionaire and Hillary supporter. "Remember all those articles about how they had no money, no people, organizational structure? Well, they won, and Jared ran it."

    SpKdbRw.jpg

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenbertoni/2016/11/22/exclusive-interview-how-jared-kushner-won-trump-the-white-house/#5b91af3e2f50

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/formal-white-house-roles-ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-article-1.2911723

    @Gustav_Graves, the video does not play for me. Mr. Trump's legal team is looking closely at potential conflicts & what the law allows. I don't think we have anything to be worried about regarding Nixonian comparisons. Having said that, as with everything, time will tell.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    @MI6_Cart, anyone can go and selectively nitpick previous comments.

    But it takes a real skillful apologist to sidestep all those valid nitpicky objections.

    No, @bj, I don't consider you a fool. But either you're a fool or you think most of us are. Which is it? We raise objections based on Trump's life-long history as a self-interested con man whose only goals are to grab either more money, fame, or pussy for himself...and you insist that he and his cabinet selections are actually patriots who will Make America Great Again. Well, I call Bullshit. America Was Already Great and Trump is on the verge of screwing our greatness up bigly.

    Here's a little test of your ability to predict future results based on past performance: I have a little Christmas present for you and everyone else reading this thread. I'll probably be posting it here around 12/23. Maybe 12/24, but who knows, things get kinda hectic around then. Last minute Christmas shopping and all that. I've given you some pretty substantial hints already. Based on my past performance, and your awesome ability to predict my actions: what is that present going to be?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    @MI6_Cart, anyone can go and selectively nitpick previous comments.

    But it takes a real skillful apologist to sidestep all those valid nitpicky objections.
    I didn't sidestep them. I think I pretty much answered all of them, and also linked to the '100 day Agenda' which has been communicated, for those who were paying attention.
    No, @bj, I don't consider you a fool. But either you're a fool or you think most of us are. Which is it? We raise objections based on Trump's life-long history as a self-interested con man whose only goals are to grab either more money, fame, or pussy for himself...and you insist that he and his cabinet selections are actually patriots who will Make America Great Again. Well, I call Bullshit. America Was Already Great and Trump is on the verge of screwing our greatness up bigly.
    I don't think Trump haters are fools. Just misguided, overly emotional and somewhat premature with their prejudgments. I'm a big believer in giving people a chance before forming a view. I also like iconoclasts and risk takers. So I'm willing to keep an open mind and look forward to the future with enthusiasm rather than pessimism. I feel it's better for one's health to take such an approach.

    Also, I don't think the 'out of work' individuals in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Wisconsin think America is doing too well at the moment. They want improvements from their Government!
    Here's a little test of your ability to predict future results based on past performance: I have a little Christmas present for you and everyone else reading this thread. I'll probably be posting it here around 12/23. Maybe 12/24, but who knows, things get kinda hectic around then. Last minute Christmas shopping and all that. I've given you some pretty substantial hints already. Based on my past performance, and your awesome ability to predict my actions: what is that present going to be?
    "If Love Trumps Hate Then I Love Trump." It's the title of a song I'm planning on writing as soon as as I get caught up with my postings on the Community Bondathon thread...
    Could this be what you're referring to @BeatlesSansEarmuffs? If so, I look forward to it with some anticipation (or is that trepidation?), but please understand that I outgrew Christmas fairy tale songs years ago.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 3,566
    No but thanks for reminding me. I'll get to working on it one of these fine days...

    Anticipation or trepidation? Am I BeatlesClaus...or KrampusSansEarmuffs?

    Outgrew Christmas music? So sad for you. I enjoy a viewing of the Nutcracker Suite every year...and I'll be out caroling in the streets of Berkeley CA again one night next week. Tonight I'll be singing John & Yoko's "Happy XMas (War is Over)" at my office Christmas party. Music is music, around this time of year there's lots of good stuff to choose from...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Anticipation or trepidation? Am I BeatlesClaus...or KrampusSansEarmuffs?
    I certainly hope that you're the former, but I'll admit that all this persistent negativity towards the President-Elect is giving me concerns, if not quite childlike nightmares.
    Outgrew Christmas music? So sad for you. I enjoy a viewing of the Nutcracker Suite every year...and I'll be out caroling in the streets of Berkeley CA again one night next week. Tonight I'll be singing John & Yoko's "Happy XMas (War is Over)" at my office Christmas party. Music is music, around this time of year there's lots of good stuff to choose from...
    Fair enough. I won't exactly shout "Bah! Humbug!" if I hear a decent classic like Santa Baby playing in the stores while I'm out shopping this year.

    I think we can all at least agree that it's certainly the most wonderful time of the year. Even President-Elect Santa Trump thinks so.
    yCE3Zek.jpg
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • bondjames wrote: »

    I think we can all at least agree that it's certainly the most wonderful time of the year. Even President-Elect Santa Trump thinks so.

    Bah, Trumpbug! [-X
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 2,341
    I cannot nor will I sit back and watch this country go full fascist. since the 1980's the GOP has been pushing us closer and closer to that abyss. Unions have been smashed, education is cut like a mother bear, health care is denied despite the fact that most people want universal care.
    Meanwhile the police have become overly militarilized as killings of unarmed citizens is condoned by prosecutors and judges. There are surveillance cameras everywhere! Not to spy on suspected terrorists but to spy on we the people.
    During the height of the cold war, we learned that the lions share of the KGB budget was not spent on keeping tabs on the US and China but on spying on Soviet citizens.

    Look at the Patriot Act. That piece of ass wipe is over 1100 pages long! It did not just get written on 9-12-01. No. I believe they had been working on that thing to limit our freedoms since the 1980's. the attack on 9-11 just presented the opportunity to put it into action. Gitmo is still up and running, and we still have habeous corpus has been and still is resinded. And we still expend money on stupid wars that drain the treasury and strike terror around the world. And we continue to torture suspects.

    I want to see a real Anti War movement up and running for starters
    I stand by woman and our Muslim brothers and sisters and other immigrants from Latin America and Africa who come here for a better life.
    I want to hold police accountable and see killer cops brought to justice.
    We will block his ridiculous appointments to his cabinet and the Supreme Court as well.

    I will do all I can to make sure that we do not go gently into the night/the abyss.
  • My God, Ms Conway and Trump are really full of themselves no? This is quite shameless. Especially since president Obama is simply doing his work:
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/16/politics/kellyanne-russia-clinton-obama/index.html?sr=fbCNN121616kellyanne-russia-clinton-obama0730PMStoryLink&linkId=32476036
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    You are over-thinking this bj. Do not assume the major players here are as intelligent as YOU are. The peeps at the top are nearly always dopes that make decisions based on their 'gut feeling' after being told what's what by the real experts.
    911-planes.jpg
    Please don't politicize a tragedy.
    You miss the point in your zeal to be so righteous. It's NOT political. But all folks like you solidly on the left or right see is politics. Reality escapes you both.
    9-11 happened because the driver was asleep at the wheel. That is not a political statement. Water is wet. That too is not a political statement.
    Here endith the lesson for today.

    What you send was a political statement, and I will continue to look out for the families of the 9/11 victims.

  • edited December 2016 Posts: 3,566
    @OHMSS69, Good luck to us all in that regard. See you in the trenches!

    @Gustav_Graves, Yes they are quite full of themselves, but what else is new?
    @MsConway, Here's a better idea: Trump can end this all by taking himself out of consideration for President based on the Russian hacking of this election and his own reluctance to recuse himself from his numerous conflicts of interest.

    @QuantumOrganization, in case you hadn't noticed, this is a political thread. I'm sure the 9/11 families are endlessly comforted by your continuing to look out for them 15 years after the fact, whatever that actually entails.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    You are over-thinking this bj. Do not assume the major players here are as intelligent as YOU are. The peeps at the top are nearly always dopes that make decisions based on their 'gut feeling' after being told what's what by the real experts.
    911-planes.jpg
    Please don't politicize a tragedy.
    You miss the point in your zeal to be so righteous. It's NOT political. But all folks like you solidly on the left or right see is politics. Reality escapes you both.
    9-11 happened because the driver was asleep at the wheel. That is not a political statement. Water is wet. That too is not a political statement.
    Here endith the lesson for today.

    What you send was a political statement, and I will continue to look out for the families of the 9/11 victims.
    Hey man, one of my family members was RIGHT THERE when it happened, and he was lucky to be able to live to tell the tale. I'm not using it for 'political purposes', I'm using it as a simple warning. You know, like when a high school puts a car that was trashed by a drunk driver in front of the school to alert students to the dangers of DWI.
    Is THAT political???

    I stand by what I 'send'ed.
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    You are over-thinking this bj. Do not assume the major players here are as intelligent as YOU are. The peeps at the top are nearly always dopes that make decisions based on their 'gut feeling' after being told what's what by the real experts.
    911-planes.jpg
    Please don't politicize a tragedy.
    You miss the point in your zeal to be so righteous. It's NOT political. But all folks like you solidly on the left or right see is politics. Reality escapes you both.
    9-11 happened because the driver was asleep at the wheel. That is not a political statement. Water is wet. That too is not a political statement.
    Here endith the lesson for today.

    What you send was a political statement, and I will continue to look out for the families of the 9/11 victims.
    Hey man, one of my family members was RIGHT THERE when it happened, and he was lucky to be able to live to tell the tale. I'm not using it for 'political purposes', I'm using it as a simple warning. You know, like when a high school puts a car that was trashed by a drunk driver in front of the school to alert students to the dangers of DWI.
    Is THAT political???

    I stand by what I 'send'ed.
    I will continue to look out for the families of 9/11 victims, regardless of what you say.

  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187

    @OHMSS69, Good luck to us all in that regard. See you in the trenches!

    @Gustav_Graves, Yes they are quite full of themselves, but what else is new?
    @MsConway, Here's a better idea: Trump can end this all by taking himself out of consideration for President based on the Russian hacking of this election and his own reluctance to recuse himself from his numerous conflicts of interest.

    @QuantumOrganization this is a political thread.
    This is why we shouldn't use 9/11 as a political pawn.

  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    @OHMSS69, Good luck to us all in that regard. See you in the trenches!

    @Gustav_Graves, Yes they are quite full of themselves, but what else is new?
    @MsConway, Here's a better idea: Trump can end this all by taking himself out of consideration for President based on the Russian hacking of this election and his own reluctance to recuse himself from his numerous conflicts of interest.

    @QuantumOrganization, I'm sure the 9/11 families are endlessly comforted by your continuing to look out for them 15 years after the fact, whatever that actually entails.
    Please don't use the 9/11 families as political gain, thank you.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Please don't use the 9/11 families as political gain, thank you.
    No one did, you need therapy.
    :))
  • I've never heard of Andy Ostroy before but I'm his newest, biggest fan. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-ostroy/an-open-letter-to-mr-trum_b_13633110.html
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I'm not surprised by this at all. As I said yesterday, the CIA has already sold $500m of weapons to Syrian rebels in a wasted exercise (much of that got into ISIL & Al Nusra's hands).

    They were also reportedly running an operation in 2012 in Benghazi supplying arms to the Syrian rebels sourced from the armouries in Libya (which they raided after Gaddafi fell). I only hope this didn't result in the attack which killed the ambassador.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/10218288/CIA-running-arms-smuggling-team-in-Benghazi-when-consulate-was-attacked.html

    Finally, I'm quite certain this Russian story is a 'smoking gun' (or is that yellow cake?) in order to get Congress to approve further Russian sanctions and weapons sales to Ukraine (the so-called 'retaliation' that Mr. Obama alluded to today). Time will tell if I'm right on this. The CIA, Europeans & American Foreign Policy establishment obviously have an agenda, have seen their ambitions thwarted in Syria by Russia, and will want their pound of flesh, no matter what the incoming Administration's plan may be.

    Here's an interesting article I came across from a Canadian outlet on the President Elect:
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/trump-transition-opinion-1.3894622

    In other news, I'm sorry to see these misguided celebrities wasting money and embarrassing themselves to no avail as they will learn on December 19th:
  • bj: Smoke. Mirrors. Pay no attention to the Rooshian behind the curtain....
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    bondjames wrote: »
    In other news, I'm sorry to see these misguided celebrities wasting money and embarrassing themselves to no avail as they will learn on December 19th:
    @bondjames yes, I fear the worst. You don't however, because like many now and in the past you cannot conceive the possibility of what's to come. Intelligence gives way to emotional NEED.
    As a Vulcan [wannabe] I must state that your estimations of Trump's intelligence are illogical. And that indeed, you yourself are illogical.
    Live long, and prosper.

    :)>-
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