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Oh, my comments weren't aimed at you personally and I did indeed read your analysis. Like I said, I understand some people just happen to like QOS and find it's flaws less of an issue. It's more a general feeling I get from certain threads I've followed, past and present, where you can almost see people convincing themselves of things from post to post, without really seeing the bigger picture. It's not even covering up the cracks as such, it's more a sense of people doing their utmost to justify the seemingly unjustifiable. I actually prefer it sometimes when people are happy to say they can't explain why the like something, they just do. I think that's completely fine when dealing with something as visceral as a movie.
I'm not going to write a logical thesis on AVTAK, because to critique the film using the standard processes would leave me with a largely negative piece of work - something I'd be keen to avoid as I get a great kick out of the movie - all of course on a massively subjective level that can't be used to justify it's greatness to anyone other than myself.
Challenge. Accepted.
;)
;)
I wouldn't say it sucked. There are far worse Bonds than QoS. I was just indifferent towards it. As Larry David would say "Ehhhh"
Take this moment from both QOS and CR:
http://screenmusings.org/CasinoRoyale/pages/Casino-Royale-0883.htm
http://screenmusings.org/CasinoRoyale/pages/Casino-Royale-0910.htm
This moment I found interesting as in CR Bond is still a rookie and the way he handles the Obanno murder is sloppy at best. In comparison the way he executes Slate is more efficient. Furthermore, once he stabs Slate, 007 looks around around almost to confirm that no one heard. I think this moment shows a great deal of development in his character, as the man we meet in QOS has learnt from his mistakes and executes the murder in a much more professional and detached manner.
http://screenmusings.org/QuantumOfSolace/pages/QoS_0341.htm
http://screenmusings.org/QuantumOfSolace/pages/QoS_0357.htm
The scene is then followed by Bond expertly cleaning himself up after the killing without a trace of emotion. Compare this to the moment after Bond kills Obanno in CR where he is an absolute wreck having to drink to calm down his nerves and wincing when tending to his wounds. In QOS Bond clearly dosen't seem to have much difficulty with the uglier side of his job anymore.
http://screenmusings.org/CasinoRoyale/pages/Casino-Royale-0938.htm
http://screenmusings.org/QuantumOfSolace/pages/QoS_1978.htm
Next we have this moment with both Camille and Vesper. Bond is holding the pair in a very similar protective positon. These scenes are very much mirror-images of each other. One scene is peaceful and hopeful and the other is brutal and frightening. Both however are very haunting.
A: Everything
Only kidding, but it's not a good sign for the film if I have AVTAK ranked above it.
However, "Forgive her. Forgive yourself." and "Not like this..." are two of my all-time favourite moments in the series. There was so much potential and this should've been one of the best in the series. Forster is the problem and I think he deserves more or les sole blame for the film's failure.
*thunderbolt chucked*
:))
The editing and cinematography were artistically crafted. That's not to say the beginning was easily recognizable during the car chase but it was meant to symbolize Bond's state of mind. As the film progresses, you see things getting more stable like Bond is. This isn't just an alibi that Marc Forster would use to justify hinaelf after the fact. He really meant to symbolize this.
This is also evident with the women of QoS. For example, Bobd doesn't care to ask for neither Field's nor Camille's names until they tell him. Then by the time he confronts Yusef, the first thing he does is ask for Corrine's name. He barely even mentioned Vesper's name before the last scene.
Beyond the showcasing of Bond's steps of grieving (brilliant stuff), the film also has great elements of contention, with M going head to head with both MI6 and Quantum, and Felix and Beam/the CIA hitting a crossroads often. The morals are rather muddied in the film as well, evident by the CIA and Beam's willingness to play along with Greene in exchange for something of their own interests. In addition, Vesper can be both interpreted as a villain or hero in the end, depending on how you view her betrayal and later sacrifices to save Bond. The film also tests our feelings about Bond (like CR before it), making him a fallible character, especially in this film where he shows signs of vulnerability, though he tries his best to act untouched by Vesper's charms. The deaths of Fields and Mathis test him, showing him that no matter how much he would want to get revenge on Quantum for stringing Vesper along, no amount of blood on his hands could ever bring her back to his arms. Looking at Camille following her execution of Medrano, I think he sees clearly just what a waste it can be when you let feelings of revenge get in your way. All of these lessons lead up to his confrontation with the duplicitous Yusef, who he decides to selflessly let go, handing him over so that MI6 can put his information to good use. When Bond meets with M afterwards and affirms that he had never gone rogue from the agency in favor of his own personal interests against Quantum, he tosses Vesper's necklace in the snow, showing a respectful acceptance of the past, but a past he is ready to move away from. The character development in this film as the Vesper arc is continued is nothing short of poetic, and becomes even more so in Skyfall as the M trilogy is wrapped up beautifully. Not many Bond films like QoS could make me ramble like this with such passion, and that has to mean something.
The cinematography is great. The problem is that every shot lasts a second. Nothing has time to breathe. snipsnipsnipsnip. It's too frantic.
What we get is a mess that indeed contains some decent moments but overall lacks the feeling that it is a 007 flick, and probably the one movie with the worst actionscenes and poor CGI once again.
A frustrating movie made with the best of intentions but lacked the skills needed to make a cohisive and understandable movie. Too arty farty.
For me the worst movie in the 007 franchise, I have never bought the movie out of sheer annoyance with it but got it for fatherday from my kids who found it in a bargainbin as it sold so well.
Though I Iove the PTS, Bond and M's interaction with Mr White, although this is followed by a confusing and frantically edited chase sequence that undermines all the good done.
QOS does have little moments to catch it's breath but when it does it's great. Bond back in London with M in the flat and M's annoyance at the whole incident plus Craig's deadpan reaction to M's Christmas present comment.
Bond's moments with Mathis and of course the whole Bregenz sequence. Greene comes in for allot of flack but I like Amalric in this role, his line of dialogue to Medrano when he's about to sign the contract and realises he's been conned is great and his delivery is particularly ruthless. Also his desperate caged animal reaction when facing down Bond at the end, clearly not really a physical presence but his lack of combat makes him a crazed maniac.
No it's far from perfect the action sequences after the PTS are nowhere as good as CR's or SF with the exception of Bregenz, the climatic battle in the desert is not too bad but QOS needed room to breathe and I don't share Forster's idea of making it as fast as a bullet.
Strange considering this is probably Arnold's most accomplished score to date and the one that showed he was starting to come up with his own style rather than the Barry pastiches or pounding percussion.
It certainly has it's moments but as a whole is flawed, that being said I'll watch it over GF, YOLT, DAF, most of the Moore's and all the Brosnan's so to me it's far from the worst.
They are all better looking, so you do not like any of them before Craig. ;)
The director's decision to quicken the pace is truly mystifying considering the lack of material in the first place.
Still, you have plenty of good characters and some fine acting.
The film is missing half an hour of savoir faire. Pretty, elegant Bondian goodness that infuses the other films like gravy.
All we get for QoS are the main ingredients and the film suffers for it.
Couldn't disagree more.
The plot is only basic if it's taken at face value. There's plenty of things going on, though, but the film doesn't hold the viewer's hand in the way that many of the previous films do. There's the main plot about Greene stealing Boliva's water and dealing with General Medrano, but then there's also Bond's journey to find his "quantum of solace". You also have Bond having to walk the tightrope of being professional in a situation where there's clearly a temptation to go on a personal vendetta. Then there's the politics behind-the-scenes, with everyone aside from perhaps Felix Leiter believing that Bond has crossed over to the other side and must be reeled in. On top of all of that, we get the introduction of what should have been the villainous organization that would dominate the next few films.
There's a lot going on in QOS. Perhaps it all gets lost in the film's frenetic pace, but I think that works to the film's advantage. It's a very urgent film, with MI6 being way behind on figuring out Quantum's existence, Bond needing to process his thoughts following his betrayal, and global politics shifting towards a more globalized society which could more easily give rise to an organization like Quantum/Spectre.
One of the things that stuck out to me was Bond throwing Mathis in the trash. I think that was maybe a step too far, and I wish we got to actually see the interrogation between Bond and Yusef, The film is supposed be about Bond getting closure and so it feels like a cop out when the scene fades to the next one before we even see what happens
The scene with Yusef was to show that Bond had moved on from that and, despite the thought process of all of his superiors, was working within the confines of the mission and handling things from a purely professional point of view.
Yes, possibly. There IS a story in there that simply needs more space to breathe in. I still think, that of all the Bond films, this one feels incredibly rushed. Both intentionally, on the director's part, and unintentionally.
This, coming from someone who has just advocated a return to a two-year production cycle. I think the writer's strike is the main culprit with QoS, though.
But there's another thing, that took me a while to put my finger on. And it's that James Bond, in QoS, isn't a likeable hero. Not for me, anyway. One thing both SF and SP have going or them, is the feeling of 007 as a hero. The bit running down the street when M comes out with that (bit silly) poem, or when Madelaine realises that Bond is a good guy, when they're in that room with M. Takes me back to the feeling I had seeing Bond on his water motorbike in TSWLM when I was ten years old. That old-fashioned British hero. I think Mendes understood that aspect, and that's what made Bond a better Bond character in SF & SP, for me.
Of course, you could say that CR and QoS were about Bond becoming Bond, so his character wasn't fully formed. Fair enough, I suppose.
Anyway, I feel Spectre is a far better Bond movie, and general movie, than QoS, and I don't like it they've got similar ratings on Rotten Tomatoes. Spectre doesn't deserve that.
There is a lot of action in the film, but the plot seems not to have a focus, this was probably down to the writers strike issues. But Dennis Gassners terrific production design, David Arnolds usual great score and Craig's Flemingesque cool performance it's a good Bond film. The ending with Bond confronting Vesper's ex-lover is pure Fleming in tone too.
Director Marc Forster has some great visual ideas , especially a shoot out in a restaurant where the only sound heard on screen is the non diegetic sound of an opera but all this is bloody ruined by subliminal editing where shot lengths are micro second ! In fact a large percentage of the movie feels like it ended up on the cutting room floor??? The 60's classic tone is great though.
Very well said, @dalton. As a QoS fan I concur!
And so do I.
I think undeniably, Craig was at his coolest in QOS. But I feel this Bond film also had his best ‘look.’ He channelled 007 with a touch of Steve McQueen cool…….
The film has a ton of style and Forster really gave it a modern-vintage feel. There are a lot of really bold directorial choices in the film. Genuinely I think aesthetically the movie has great flair.
But it's the storytelling that is weak - firstly, there is soooo much action. What made CR work was the focus on Bond as a human and the quieter more emotional scenes resonant. In QOS, they don't let Craig ruminate and that's really where he excels. Forster just makes Bond an 'action man'...........................
The second big problem is the editing. It's too fast paced and it destroys the sense of thrill in the spectacle. There is such great craft in these films behind-the-scenes but Forster disguises it with shoddy editing. they should have let Stuart Baird edit the stunts. you'd never know it was made by the same team who did the tank chase in GE or the parkour chase in CR.
Nonetheless, the visuals are impeccable. Right down tot he amazing locations, great cinematography and very pretty actors......
This has been said many times before but worth repeating,they success of Bourne ( Particularly Ultimatum the previous year ) made them think that this was the way to make Bond films now.Unfortunatley they forgot to actually include the crucial elements that makes a bond film enteraining.The plot is boring and very difficult to follow.The villains are uninteresting and their evil plan makes you go '' Ok whatever,less water in bolvia ''.
There is no really good humour.The end of the plane sequence rivals DAD's ice surfing in pure ridiculousness,have i mentioned the terrible editing? Its the shortest Bond film but it feels like the longest.