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First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemöller
So - again repeating myself - the police and security services collect enough evidence to put before the court (in this case a special panel of judges). As in all criminal cases, the decision whether or not to proceed to court would be based on a body of evidence which those putting the case were confident would be successful. Once the evidence is presented, it would be up to the judges to decide if there was justification enough to order the arrest/detention of terror suspects, or that the case before them could not be proved beyond reasonable doubt.
The safeguards would be there to protect the innocent but stop those who were planning terror attacks or in some other way supporting terrorism.
On a personal level, I have absolutely no regard for the rights of terrorists and every regard for those of their victims.
Just one more thing. I remain on the alert for those who have chosen to misrepresent me and falsify what I have said, to present their own evidence which proves that I am guilty of making statements against refugees. Unfortunately for me, that particular matter is not before the UK judges, but instead is in the hands of those who twist words and more in order to further their position. I wait (in vain) for a formal apology on this particular matter.
concerned with keeping citizens safe than with the rights of terrorists.
Another point, how do those who being taken to court under stags system defend themselves? How do you prove that you would not do something in future.
No thanks.
This is subject to too much abuse. There are other ways.
Thank you @bondjames for returning us to sanity. If we do what the stag suggests we've lost to the terrorists already.
@bondjames, we are not talking about some Hollywood B movie, but the British legal system. Do you honestly believe that a panel of British judges would unofficially order executions?
@tanaka123 we've already lost to the terrorists, we've lost because people like you refuse to sit up and realise what they are attempting to do to us. FYI ISIS and any other terrorist group does not play by the rules of PC - they simply use it as cover.
@patb of course the rights of terrorists are being spoken about. It is obvious to me that many are willing to bend over and take whatever is coming to them. More worryingly is the acceptance of this trend, we will soon be like France, where terrorist attacks become the norm.
I am not speaking about plucking random people off the street (try doing that and see how far you get). What about the four hundred returned ISIS fighters who are roaming our streets, what about the other 3,200 jihadists (including the PoS Manchester attacker) on the 'watch list'? Tell me about their rights and then explain the rights of you, me and everyone else who are their targets. Then remind me the next time an attack is made.
I wonder how many here have actually witnessed terrorist activity at first hand? I have, a long time ago, IRA bomb. Until someone can justify why we should continue to allow our enemies (known enemies - I am not generalising) to walk among us then my viewpoints remain unchanged.
The fact is these same enemies prey on our weaknesses. They know we will not do anything until after the fact, so they can sit down and plot and plan to their hearts content.
As far as I'm concerned, if locking up all those 3600 indefinitely saved the life of one person, then it would be worth it.
Lastly I hear much naysaying "There are other ways" why don't you tell me what those other ways are? Who knows, you may even make me change my mind?
FYI ISIS and any other terrorist group does not play by the rules of PC - they simply use it as cover. - This I Know and this I agree with.
Quite frankly I don't play by the rules of PC, that's really not what I'm putting forward. I don't equate the rule of law with political correctness.
But this attack has left me feeling angry. I'm pi**ed off to be honest.
Whatever our governments are doing is good. But it's not enough. Something has to change. We cannot let these barbarians commit these acts of hatred, when they live amongst us. Faceless, cowardly scum!
Whatever we're doing to combat them, it's not working. It's bad enough to target innocent people that have no chance of protecting themselves. When the scum of humanity target children and young people at a concert, I say enough is enough.
Cant agree with you post more @stag
What course of action do you suggest?
Then I suggest you join the police. You'll soon realise what I'm speaking about.
So, how is the rule of law political correctness, please explain Mr Policeman?
I'm not sure to be honest @tanaka123 but whatever course we're taking, these attacks continue to occur.
I'm not suggesting anything radical. But a rethink as to how to combat these hate filled bast*rds is surely overdue.
Completely agree.
I'll as you again, instead of asking others - why don't you provide us with an alternative solution?
I freely admit that I don't have an alternative solution. And I freely admit I have no answers, I would not be so bold to claim that I do. As for the 'big bad world' I can assure you I've seen plenty of it. Just because I find fault with your solution you don't need to take it so personally you know. That just smacks of insecurity if I may say so. I honestly have no answers to this situation. I guess that's why I'm not in the intelligence business or politics. I'm an actor, I don't pretend to be the emminent expert on how to counter terrorism.
This hits the nail on the head re the direction that it's tempting to go down. So life sentences for thousands. Not because they have been convicted of a conventional crime but because they are perceived as a threat. And we have no idea why each of these guys is on the list. Once you go down the route of justifying invasion of civil rights to possibly save one life in future (pure guess work), then where do you draw the line? The concept is already slipping from putting each one in front of a special court for them to make the decision to locking all of them up for life, just because they are on the watch list. If you can justify locking 3600 up for life, why not 5000, or 10,000?
Total removal of the judicial process.
Also if you did that you would actually exacerbate the problem. Especially if you start locking up people who aren't connected to terrorism. You would be doing the work of IS's recruitment - those that may not be radicalised may become so with this type of action. Bloody Sunday created many IRA terrorists over night.
Letting these scum live amongst us. Murdering innocent, men, women and children at their whim.
I think it's also important to remember the vast number of plots that the Met, MI5 and MI6 have stopped.
Unfortunately, there seems to be many here who focus their attention too much on the rights of our enemies, while seemingly ignoring the rights of our citizens to lead lives free from attack or threat thereof. You can broadbrush all you like on a initiative which would actually be focused on removing known threats, but the more you do, the more you unintentionally helping to place people in harms way. While ever the prevailing attitude of those in power are shared with such people then we are indeed helping the terrorists to win.
Can you explain how I am trolling? So because I disagree with you I'm supposedly 'trolling'? Right, okay ... if anything you're trolling, you're the one causing discord just because you're spitting your dummy out that lo and behold someone may disagree with you.
Considering the complex and advanced training the police fireams officers receive re the use of guns within a civil environment and the "rules of engagement", it puts soldiers in a very hard position,
also, we have been told its a temp measure. So, what happens after that? It smacks of politicians running out of options and wanting to be seen to do something new.
I think there is little doubt there will be more attacks. What happens then?
It's because they think there are still people involved at large - therefore an attack may be imminent.
A redundant analogy? But aren't the terrorists at war with us? (I know it would shake the sensibilities of the handwringers to contemplate such an admission).
We can't fight these people with conventional means, so we have to be unconventional in our approach and (GASP) as part of that have to actually consider encroaching on their civil liberties when they have been positively identified as threats. I know it might be too much to take for some of the more sensitive among us, but unfortunately thats how war works.
Until then just wait for the next attack.
Ingenious.
Well, in the knowledge its a temp measure, they just wait until the soldiers come off the streets. Also, re suicide vests, what exactly are we expecting our soldiers to do?
No need to. It's all in these pages for everyone to see. Trolling and personal attacks. Is it because you cannot bend me to conform with your naivety?
I'm not going to argue with you, pointless, I do however refer you back to the short passage I included in an earlier post WRT a PM I received.
Heads up folks, watch for the next salvo - accusing me of 'spitting my dummy out ' or whatever infantile mockery comes to mind.
Such a helpful chap ...