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As for Missy not regenerating, I don't believe that for one second. Eric Roberts Master from the 1996 film, was supposed to be out of regenerations (which is why he tried to steal the remaining regenerations that The Doctor had), but since then we have seen The Master in 3 more forms (Jacobi, Simm & Gomez).
I think that the script made a point of saying she couldn't regenerate to make it clear that she was dead, but also kept it intentionally vague as to whether or not Gomez followed Simm. Maybe Moffat wanted to finally give the master a clear definitive ending while still leaving room for them to appear in the future. So Missy is the last one and that is the end of the character, but there's plenty of room for other stories/versions inbetween.
Also looking forward to some multi Doctor episodes especially if the Eight is involved.
I wouldn't say they are comparable either. But the point I am making what the show would be preaching, if it were about sexuality, and the notion of not being able to be able hide ones real self can be carried over to The Master. Now I know that the original idea was for The Master to give his life to save The Doctor, but we are so far past that now.
But we aren't talking about someone who indulges in mugging, twocking or armed robbery. The Master appeared reformed in The Sea Devils, didn't last long.
That's what I have a hard time believing. The idea of The Master suddenly giving a... about The Doctor believing in him/her. The Master should be too busy putting his/her dastardly plan in motion.
I highly doubt that Missy will be the last one. If Roberts was the last one, and he was, but somehow managed to get a whole new cycle of regenerations, then The Master will be back. Maybe, like Smith, the next Doctor wont encounter The Master, but the one after that could.
believeable but I'm not that familiar with the old series. The only episodes I've seen with the master have been the movie and the new series. If you've seen the countless older episodes where he tries to kill the doctor, take over the universe, etc, then I'm sure the whole redemption premise of the last few episodes would be harder to swallow.
I think the character will definitely be back, but because of how intentionally vague it was in terms of the timeline (Missy saying that she didn't know if she was the next one after Simm), they could keep that as the end but still have the master appear in the future by going with a version between the two. Not sure if that's what they'll do, they could just as easily find a way to carry on from Gomez since the master has "died" countless times, but I think that was Moffat's intention.
@SaintMark do you think we could be seeing more actors in the christmas special? It seems like the story is going to be Capaldi persuading the first doctor to regenerate and deciding to do so himself in the process. Maybe he could do that by showing him all the stuff he'll go on to do.
The classic series also confuses the portrayal of The Master we saw at the weekend. Yes, Simm wore a fantastic Delgado/Ainley beard and black outfit, but the whole 'I will never stand with The Doctor!' could only refer to the Simm incarnation, as much of Delgado's reign involved him launching an improbable plot with an alien ally, which inevitably went awry, forcing him to work with the Doctor to defeat the menace he himself had caused. All glorious stuff though. Delgado was the Moriarty to the Doctor's Holmes and in my opinion is still the greatest version.
Really enjoyed the concluding two-parter, but feel sad that Capaldi has really nailed the character now just as he is leaving.
Still, he got to play his childhood hero. How many actors get to say that?
I gave a similar rant on Sunday morning to my family and after a pause my daughter said 'I like Matt Smith'. So I gave up.
My wife and daughter, avid watchers once upon a time have deserted the show since Capaldi came in and no amount of persuading from me alters that. So, I'm a fan of the show and I lose. My wife and daughter who want to stare at an attractive young Doctor leaping around making funny gags, well they win.
Pissed.
To be fair I think better material would have helped as well. I didn't really enjoy series 8 until the very end and barely watched series 9 because it just seemed like more of the same. This last series has been great though and Capaldi has completely owned it. Moffat definitely deserves praise for casting him because he could have just as easily cast another young pretty boy actor and done a retread of what came before.
I read an interview with Chris Chibnall where he talked about taking big risks when he takes over but to be honest I'm fully expecting a David Tennant/Matt Smith sort of actor. The show has never really managed to escape Tennant's shadow in terms of popularity so I'm sure the BBC will go down that route.
I wonder if this would have panned out the same way if Ecclestone hadn't left. The show was still very popular during its first series iirc so maybe if he'd stayed on until Moffat came in with Smith, Tennant wouldn't be seen as the go to standard. But would someone like Smith have even been cast if it weren't for Tennant's popularity?* I don't know. Just weird how its played out, with that sort of doctor being what people want, when that wasn't the direction they were going with it at all back in 2005.
*I did read a rumour that Patterson Joseph was all but officially cast, but he was worried about tokenism so didn't want to sign on for more than a year at a time, and the BBC got cold feet at the last minute so Smith (similar to Tennant in a lot of ways) was picked instead.
Personally, I liked Smith. Of the modern run of Doctors, he is the one which I like the most. But there is no getting away from the fact that his casting brought a demographic that weren't fans, had no interest in the history of the show, and got angry when he was replaced by an "old man".
When Moffat took over I assumed he didn't want to take any chances and therefore cast a young, quirky actor (Smith) to follow DT. And I assumed the new head boy would do the same.
Then, like Moffat did with the older Capaldi, he will take a gamble on his second Doctor (almost nailed on a woman, regardless of who is best for the role).
But, I didn't know about Paterson Joseph. Interesting.
That's an interesting thought. He might go with a Tennant esque actor to try and get the ratings up again before doing something riskier in a few years time if he's still around. I'm not opposed to a woman really, because it's not like Bond where it's the same character. They've established he can change into literally anyone or anything.
I agree that if that's gonna happen any time soon though, it'll be with his second doctor rather than the next one. For the upcoming actor I'm fully expecting them to play it as safe as possible. White, male, young, good looking in a geeky sort of way.
Can we expect a reveal soon? Capaldi and Smith were revealed in the summer weren't they?
But the part of the last episode that made me laugh and I thought was a lovely touch was the Doctor offering a jelly baby out of a paper bag.
A tribute to the great Tom Baker....a lovely touch.
My only issue with a woman is that the pressure put on them to cast a woman is too pronounced. No way would we be allowed to demand the casting of a man in a part we have recognised as being female. No chance.
Yet, despite these bleeding heart feminists demanding more for women, TV is currently awash with great actresses getting so many plumb parts. The other day I listed many of them off the top of my head. And now it seems nailed on that one of TVs plumb parts for male actors will have to be given up.
I think that's one of the reasons Eccleston is still my favourite. Not very eccentric, no gimmicks, no quirky costume. Very stripped back and down to earth.
As for your comments about DW if Eccleston had stayed on. I somehow think that Tennent is more 'user friendly', more appealing to a wider audience. Eccleston, like Capaldi has many merits, but mass audience appeal may not be one of them.
No room for experimentation at the Beeb any more I'm afraid.
Tennant is the best Doctor in recent years by far IMO.
Thought Watergirl was a VERY cheap get out to save Bill Potts let alone that whole idea! As for the set up to the Christmas special? Roll on December as I think it could be a belter for once!!! As the Christmas episodes always have to be Christmassy which does my head in! Please make this one different!
Ten minutes before the special TV show which announced the new Doctor (August 2013) @thelivingroyale actually called it- Peter Capaldi.
Can you remember that @thelivingroyale? Where did you get that from?
That's why I don't think it'll be Kris Marshall. He sounds like a believeable choice but the bookies rarely get it right this far in advance. I reckon we'll be able to make a guess soon enough though. I think once the BBC set a date for the announcement we'll just have to keep an eye on the odds as it gets closer. If there's a dramatic rise in interest like there was for Capaldi, that could be the next doctor.
I think that might be why his is one of my least favourite Doctors. The quirky/eccentric/offbeat costume is almost part of what the character is. It is like the next Bond actor not wanting to wear a dinner jacket.
@RogueAgent - It wont be. The Master has come back even after reaching the end of his regeneration cycle. Smith never encountered The Master, and the next Doctor might not either, but the one after that could.
They won't go female - and anyway, if my understanding of the sisterhood is correct, a female Doctor would be subject to vicious criticism and scornful rejection by female viewers anyway!
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.denofgeek.com/us/tv/doctor-who/256943/doctor-who-creator-sydney-newman-had-plans-for-a-female-doctor
Apparently back in the 80s one of the creators of the show wanted a female doctor. So surely he's got some sort of authority on the subject? I wouldn't mind really. I think one of the strengths of the show is how the lead can change completely.
Exactly how I feel.
Can't argue with that to be fair, but I think a more stripped back/modernised take, played by a highly regarded serious drama actor, was just what was needed to regain credibility and get the show taken seriously again when they relaunched it. It was what got me interested anyway. And he did still have a recognisable costume/look. Then once they found their footing they gradually began to reintroduce the quirks and eccentricity. When Smith turned up in his bow tie and tweed, they could get away with that because the show was hugely popular again and they could pretty much do whatever they wanted. In 2005 it may have been a bit naff imo, even if they did make a point of taking the piss out of the eccentric costumes when they did reintroduce them.
With The Master, I think the reason Moffat kept it vague in terms of whether or not Missy followed Simm is so he could have it both ways. Missy can be the last one and that can be the end but The Master can still come back: they can have as many incarnations as they like between Simm and Gomez.
Why all of a sudden is she a hero who just steps in and saves the day?
In short, the episode was great. Loved the little references, the interplay between the characters and the little touches, like the Master training to use make-up. And that cliffhanger makes me very impatient to see the Christmas special. The one thing I didn't like wa that Bill was saved by a "Deus Ex Machina", or rather, in this case, a "Dea Ex Aqua". But she's not the first companion to which that happens, even in the classics.
BTW, I just finished "horror of Fang Rock", or rather, as I call it "Carnage at Fang Rock". Really good, even considering that this time, nobody but the Doctor and Leela survives the encounter with the Ruthless Rutan. Hmmm, here is a monster that is due for a return, methinks.
And it's still pretty depressing when you think about it. Bill presumably thinks The Doctor is dead, and he'll think she is too. So they'll both mourn each other not knowing the other one is alive, and The Doctor will never know that Missy was going to come through for him in the end either (because she literally couldn't escape her past, very clever).
I really hope that whenever The Master inevitably returns, instead of resurrecting him again the writers take advantage of the leeway Moffat left them and have the next version be post Simm but pre Gomez. It was quite good really how he gave the character a great ending but left infinite room for other versions in between.
Actually we never saw Simm regenerate did we. And he was only stabbed at the end of the day. He's survived worse than that. How about he got himself to some space hospital after he escaped, he was saved, probably murdered everyone there and now we can have him back as the master for the foreseeable. Please?
When Tom Baker left the role in 1981 his parting comment at the press conference was that he wished every success to the next actor 'whoever he or she may be' and despite this being a provocative little joke on Tom's part it did send the media into a bit of a frenzy.
That was the first time I remember the suggestion of a female Doctor.
John Simm admits he's open to Doctor Who return
John Simm is open to the idea of reprising the role of The Master on 'Doctor Who'.
The 46-year-old actor previously starred as the nemesis of the Doctor in the much-loved sci-fi series and has suggested he would like to return the role on the BBC show.
Asked about the possibility, he said: "You know what, I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't have thought in a million years that I'd be back [in 2017], yet here I am talking about it, so never say never.
"So you never know. This thing called 'Doctor Who' is a machine that just sort of goes on its own. It's got its own rules. And if they want you back, then great. I would definitely think about it."
The Doctor and The Master were childhood friends before they developed an intense rivalry, with the iconic Time Lord ultimately coming to view John's former character as his arch-enemy.
Actress Michelle Gomez has played a female incarnation of the character since 2014, but confirmed in May that the tenth series would be her last in the role.
Despite this, John - who first played The Master in 2007, before returning for a two-part special in 2009 - considers it unlikely that he will be offered the opportunity to reprise the role in the future.
Speaking to Doctor Who Magazine, he shared: "Will they ask? I doubt it. But I don't know. I mean, I'm very, very lucky to have worked with two Doctors. Two brilliant, brilliant actors.
"So if not, I will count myself blessed to have been asked back; to have played him these two times. That's wonderful. And we shall see. Who knows? Yeah, never say never. That's very true."
I think it's probably best to give the character a rest for a few years now but when he does eventually appear again I hope it's Simm playing him.