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THEN and NOW: a tie. I loved the film the first time I saw it and I still do. Despite some vigorously negative responses to the film here on the forums, my personal appreciation of the film remains high and firm. In a little under a year, I've watched the film close to 10 times and not once have I found myself bored with or upset by what I was seeing. Instead, I've time and again found a type of Bondian joy which even the much revered SF fails to supply IMO.
Liked it when i first saw it, and it hasn't really declined any since.
I wasn't too sure about the film during the first viewing. I enjoyed a lot of it, and loved that it was a return to formula, but some things didn't sit well. After the explosion at Blofeld's base I was afraid that was going to be the anticlimactic end of the movie. The whole thing with shooting down the helicopter and not shooting Blofeld all felt very weak. There was nothing I wanted more at the time than for the scene to end with the solid bang of a bullet in Blofeld's head. The ending with Bond driving off with Madeleine was pretty much how I've always pictured the entire series ending, so I was left with the feeling of "Where do we go from here?". I left the theater very unsettled.
Now;
Watching the film again my enjoyment of it has grown greatly. Knowing that the base exploding wasn't the end helps, and the ending has grown on me. While the taking down of a helicopter with a pistol is still weak, everything around that scene (especially the events in the old MI6 building) is very good. Though I'd still prefer a variation on the story where Bond kills Blofeld, I've come to appreciate Bond not shooting him for the big deal that it is. It was Bond showing Madeleine that he didn't have to be like her assassin father, and it's precisely why so many people expect a return of Madeleine. My future enjoyment of the ending depends on what they do going forward. If they have Blofeld escaping and killing her, essentially rehashing OHMSS, I'll be very disappointed in EON for being such morons. If they find some other way of getting her out of Bond's life, I'll be happy. They can ignore her entirely, or better still, end the story of Craig's Bond here with a happy ending, and let his reboot exist as its own isolated Bond universe, not continuing its story.
All in all, I enjoy the film a lot, and a lot more now, despite its shortcomings.
Loved it the moment it came out. But I was just on my usual new Bond film high. Now, I can't remember the last time I watched it. Shoulda just remade OHMSS and been done with it.
Moreover, they should have remade TB, OHMSS and YOLT and adhered more to the books :P What a way to celebrate the ownership of Spectre/Blofeld that would have been!
Not that we need anymore versions of Thunderball.
Now - Snooze. Spectre is a bore - it really doesn't stand up to repeated viewings very well at all. And from the torture scene on it gets pretty silly.
I guess it is because we have several - sometimes unrelated threads - that discuss SP. Everyone is just tired of it.
Indeed dear @DarthDimi . The only bit that is vaguely upsetting is the brother angle. But I'm seduced by SP's retro glamour vibe. And Lea is too die for.
Its tie for me too!
Now - SP & SF make really nice coffee toasters.
Now - I'm still anxiously trying to find something in it to like. It's probably the Bond film I've viewed the most as a result. The best I can say is that Mendes obviously had some convoluted Kubrick style vision that he was trying to achieve, and I'm probably too dim to realize what it was. I may give up at some point. Certainly not a fun Bond film for me!
I wasn't too pleased with a stealth boat, a video game controlled killer drill and Rambo Bond in '97, but I understood how it fitted the rest of the movie. Had that climax been pasted over that of say GE, I would have freaked out. Had the climax of SP been the finale to CR, my jaws would have been on the floor. But SP is its own thing, a bit uneven at times, with a heavy style-over-substance vibe flowing through it, and some almost David Lynchian "huh?" moments here and there. And that's why we don't get a raid on Ford Knox or a hollowed out volcano. In some Bond films it makes sense to end atop the Golden Gate Bridge or aboard a Russian plane carrying loads of opium, or in trucks full or heroin or in a vertical submarine. In SP, it makes sense to end where it ends. I just don't feel the whiplash that many seem to suffer when they jump from Blofeld's lair in the desert to C and M and Q and MP in the British capital. So for me at least, the climax of SP is just another fine act in a film that I like very much and won't shy away from, even if it puts me in the shadows of this forum's seemingly more popular negative opinion of the film.
I still hold SP, including its climax, in higher esteem than SF, a film I also like, just not as much.
Now: With each viewing, I do not find renewed pleasure. As time goes on, more oddities stand out that reduce my opinion of the film. Currently I have it ranked just outside my basement as a top 20 Bond film. I think the biggest indictment against it is that it attempts to be a master of all and ends up a master of none. The action is almost certainly my favorite part of the film, along with some of the early dialogue exchanges. The tonality of the film shifts back and forth between an introverted character study and a playful and engaging experience that I find myself losing both feelings as they flip between the two.
Ultimately, Spectre is a film that is less than the sum of its parts. The best Bond films are confident in their direction and unapologetic in their delivery. Spectre is a film with a lot of exposition and suspense that never rises to a satisfying conclusion or cliffhanger.
Then > Now
I feel the same way about the tonal variations and lack of direction in TWINE , but I recall that this is a film you hold in high regard. Can you see what I mean about that film also being full of tonal mismatches?
I suppose you're curious about how a negative characteristic of two films can only affect the opinion of the one badly. TWINE is less inconsistent overall. I view it more under the playful and engaging category than being a serious Bond film. A perfect example of this is when Electra asks Bond if he's ever lost a loved one and he pauses briefly before proceeding with details from his investigation. It mostly walks along the lines of serious in the relationship between M and Electra. TWINE has an energy throughout the entire film, it doesn't feel a moment too long.
I have a draft for a post including my thoughts on TWINE I may put in the Brosnan appreciation thread that has more specifics if I get a chance. Essentially, it's how TWINE embraces itself as a confident and fun Bond film that separate it from Spectre for me.
It's crazy how little I can remember about my reaction when I first saw it, considering how it's only been a few years since its release. I don't think my opinion has changed too much, TBH - my feeling is that it reminds me of a lazy, Sunday afternoon Bond movie; a middle of the road Roger Moore effort that I still enjoy because it's got 007 in it.
I also remember wishing there was more Dave Bautista because he seemed really underused. Plus the CGI in the helicopter sequence was really disappointing. The genuinely amazing helicopter stunts were cut-and-pasted in front of CGI crowds, or spliced with footage of Bond fighting in front of a blue screen, lessening the thrill.
I think I like it less when I came out, and once it's no longer the newest Bond film I doubt I will watch it very often (I watch it all the time at present as it came with a free digital download for my phone). There's stuff I love love love about it (the SPECTRE MEETING! THE CRATER LAIR! THE TRAIN FIGHT! THE OPENING SHOT!) but there's a lot of filler too.
With this and (the superior) Skyfall the Bond series is inching towards being 'prestige' pictures when the majority of the films have been crowd pleasing popcorn flicks. It's a difficult balance to strike, but I'm hoping the next Bond film learns a little from Kingsman and the last few Mission: Impossible movies, which are very eager to please.
Now - worse. The whole piece of work does not stand up to scrutiny. Just very weak. A mess.
I think the modern Bond movies and the M:I movies form 2 parts of a whole: if I wasn't getting my over the top set pieces and and gadgets from these newer movie franchises I'd expect that I'd being enjoying the Craig movies less than I do now.
I didn't want to watch Kingsman AT ALL because I despised Kick Ass, but I was convinced to do so the other week and I was pleasantly surprised. Without the baggage that the Bond movies must contend with (and the fact a sequel was never guaranteed) I think more character development could be achieved and...
M:I's protagonist is a pretty dull character, with seemingly no inner life beyond the mission, which is why I'd always prefer 007. However, both Rogue Nation and SPECTRE had very similar plots and I had a lot more fun with Ethan Hunt than I did with Bond this time around.
Yes, I agree with you that TWINE is more energetic and upbeat throughout its run time and it's a good point you make that the more serious elements revolve around the M/Electra and possibly also the Bond/Electra dynamic.
I may not like many (most?) things about it, but I can't deny that the film has a more consistently playful tone overall in comparison to the uneven last effort.
Bless you, Dame Judi.